NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,617
    I must be in the minority but I really enjoyed the more serious tone of this era, especially before the tonal shift in Spectre.

    I know Craig didn't want to be the glum or serious Bond forever but that tone suited him more in my opinion. He did have some funny lines in CR, QOS and SF.

    I prefer Bond to have a dry wit/dark humour than the Moore/Brosnan era constant quips
  • Posts: 12,360
    I also thought serious fit Craig’s Bond a lot better. His SP performance is probably my least favorite Bond performance in the series just for feeling so off to me. I do think he handled the lighter stuff way better in NTTD though and it did bring back a lot more dramatic elements than SP had so overall I love 4/5 of his performances.
  • AstonLotus wrote: »
    Craig only got one really good movie in my opinion ( CR ) and I never really warmed to him as Bond so I’m pretty much glad his era is over.

    I just hope whoever we get next brings back some of the fun and charm to the series.

    I just hope that fun and charm isn't like Craig's predecessor...




  • Posts: 12,360
    One random thing I want to point out that I like about NTTD is how obsessed SPECTRE is with flashing their octopus logo at every opportunity - the calling card at Vesper's grave, Madeleine's phone screen, when Bond looks up at the ceiling in Cuba with the gas coming down. Found it an amusing touch throughout the movie anyway. Also, it only is just now occurring to me just how silly-looking the one part with the servant carrying Blofeld's eye is XD and I mean that in that best possible way.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    FoxRox wrote: »
    One random thing I want to point out that I like about NTTD is how obsessed SPECTRE is with flashing their octopus logo at every opportunity - the calling card at Vesper's grave, Madeleine's phone screen, when Bond looks up at the ceiling in Cuba with the gas coming down. Found it an amusing touch throughout the movie anyway. Also, it only is just now occurring to me just how silly-looking the one part with the servant carrying Blofeld's eye is XD and I mean that in that best possible way.

    I really thought the three bald henchmen carrying the eye were such an awesome touch. In my mind, they're the Eye, the Ear, and the Mouth of Blofeld.
  • Posts: 12,360
    FoxRox wrote: »
    One random thing I want to point out that I like about NTTD is how obsessed SPECTRE is with flashing their octopus logo at every opportunity - the calling card at Vesper's grave, Madeleine's phone screen, when Bond looks up at the ceiling in Cuba with the gas coming down. Found it an amusing touch throughout the movie anyway. Also, it only is just now occurring to me just how silly-looking the one part with the servant carrying Blofeld's eye is XD and I mean that in that best possible way.

    I really thought the three bald henchmen carrying the eye were such an awesome touch. In my mind, they're the Eye, the Ear, and the Mouth of Blofeld.

    It's some super memorable iconography for sure. The one with the cocked eyebrow as he moves the pillow just cracks me up XD that Cuba sequence is just so awesome. Might just be the most straight up "classic" James Bond sequence in the whole Craig era.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    One random thing I want to point out that I like about NTTD is how obsessed SPECTRE is with flashing their octopus logo at every opportunity - the calling card at Vesper's grave, Madeleine's phone screen, when Bond looks up at the ceiling in Cuba with the gas coming down. Found it an amusing touch throughout the movie anyway. Also, it only is just now occurring to me just how silly-looking the one part with the servant carrying Blofeld's eye is XD and I mean that in that best possible way.

    I really thought the three bald henchmen carrying the eye were such an awesome touch. In my mind, they're the Eye, the Ear, and the Mouth of Blofeld.

    It's some super memorable iconography for sure. The one with the cocked eyebrow as he moves the pillow just cracks me up XD that Cuba sequence is just so awesome. Might just be the most straight up "classic" James Bond sequence in the whole Craig era.

    It might have been for me too, if it didn't involve the (near) complete destruction of Spectre! ;)

    For me, that scene award goes to the Dead Island in SF.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 1,394
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I just hope whoever we get next brings back some of the fun and charm to the series.

    This is a criticism of Craig that I used to agree with, but it seems a bit 2008 to me. I thought Skyfall bought a sense of fun back nearly a decade ago, and NTTD bought back the OTT fantastical stuff (we had gadgets, bionic eyes, nanobots, goons with sci-fi magnets). Did none of the humour in the last few films land for you? If you just mean they’re too emotionally heavy, then I can see where you’re coming from, and I imagine we’ll get a more straightforward thriller next time. But I think anyone expecting a return to groanworthy sex puns and invisible cars may be disappointed.

    I don’t necessarily want a return to DAD style puns and invisible cars,but the Craig era got too bogged down with melodrama and “ personal “ stakes for Bond.I just want to see Bond go on actual missions and have the plot stick to them without him retiring or going rogue every time.I don’t want an MCU style saga across the films and just want good stand-alone stories.

    No, a lot of the humour didn’t land for me,it wasn’t Craig’s strength and he lacked the charm and sophistication that the likes of Moore and Brosnan had.He was tough for sure,and good in the fight scenes but that’s about it.CR was a terrific debut but it all went downhill for me ( though there are aspects of all his films I did enjoy ).

    They also shouldn’t feel like they have to go after best Oscar winners to play the villains.Waltz as Blofeld proved that having a great actor to play the villain doesn’t necessarily work if the writings not up to par or if they are not suited to their vision of the role.
  • Posts: 12,360
    One thing I want to see return is more epic hand-to-hand fights, a la Bond vs. Grant, Bond vs. Trevelyan, Bond vs. Sandor / Jaws, etc. Craig got into a lot of brief combat tussles, but other than the train fight with Hinx, didn't really get a memorable, lengthy fight along these lines. And I think we're almost unanimous in agreeing we want less personal, less rogue, less drama stuff next era, though with the way action films just are now, fat chance sadly.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,020
    Have to fess that my heart sank when the claims surfaced before SF that they'd gone back to gags, gadgets, Moneypenny and Q. I absolutely loved what they'd done with CR and QOS - CraigBond resonated with me in a way that none of the others had done and I wanted more of the same. In the end, SF didn't go as far down the trope path as I'd feared, but there was definitely a soft reboot from QOS. Not a fan of 'eject me' and 'got in some deep water'. Still, at least the 'He's in a hurry to get home' couple only appeared once - in previous eras, they'd've have been the ones doing a double-take in the street when Craig parachuted down after the SP car chase! Probably been on the station platform in Matera too!

  • I really thought the three bald henchmen carrying the eye were such an awesome touch. In my mind, they're the Eye, the Ear, and the Mouth of Blofeld.

    The one in the middle fit the part perfectly.

  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,837
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    They also shouldn’t feel like they have to go after best Oscar winners to play the villains.

    This I do agree with. I can think of a good few actors who’d make fantastic Bond villains who probably wouldn’t even get a look in now, because they seem to like casting a recent Oscar winner to add a bit of prestige.

    Famous names can work, obviously. I loved Bardem as Silva, and personally I thought Blofeld (just a shame about the foster brother gimmick) and Saffin were fine. But I don’t like the idea of only A listers getting to play Bond villains, because think of how many great performances we’d have missed out on if that was always the case.

    I think it could also be a result of the massive budgets, maybe need all the star power they can get just to make their money back? So, since the budget is probably going to be lower next time, I do think it’d be cool to have a less famous face as the villain again. Just to show that it’s still a possibility.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,020
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2021 Posts: 17,732
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,102
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    fat-boohoo.gif
  • Posts: 530
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    Yeah — in how they tried to make them films with more emphasis on story/emotional weight, allowing more of that to get through. And based on commercial results, it seems to have worked!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,732
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    fat-boohoo.gif

    Ha ha. Real machure. (SP intentional)
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    Cheer up. There is always this travesty for those who prefer the past.

    brozza.gif




  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2021 Posts: 8,102
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    fat-boohoo.gif

    Ha ha. Real machure. (SP intentional)

    This was me after posting that gif,

    1-7.gif
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,020
    Oh, God, it's all coming back to me now... :-O
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    chrisisall wrote: »
    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    Cheer up. There is always this travesty for those who prefer the past.

    brozza.gif
    Is that the “OMG they did that!?!” event @chrisisall is referring to? Must be. Thank God for Daniel Craig.
  • Posts: 2,161
    No one actor has a monopoly on regrettable moments in their Bond films.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,360
    Another random thought: the emotional moment that worked best for me is near the end of the scene when Bond talks to Safin when he has his daughter. Bond makes a really pained expression at some point seeing his daughter that said all I needed to know about how he felt in that moment, and the delivery of, “not as long as there are people like you in the world” was really well done. Bond putting Madeleine on the train, Felix’s death, and Bond’s death were all sad as well, but as far as just “feeling” a moment, Bond’s protectiveness of his daughter and contempt for Safin in that scene resonated most with me. The part when Safin takes Mathilde from Madeleine too is messed up.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 49
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Really dawned on me tonight how sad I am in a way we'll never see another new Daniel Craig James Bond film. He was the Bond I grew up on and the Bond we had for the longest amount of time, so it feels especially sentimental to me and just strange and empty in a way. This is actually going to be the first actor transition I'll have gone through as a fan. I definitely think it was time for a change, as I said long before NTTD actually dropped, but still, it is tough knowing Craig is done. He was so good.

    I am thrilled you enjoyed it but on your sense of loss consider this.

    I am 66 and my parents took me to a James Bond week at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus in early 1966 where I was blown away by the first there films and enjoyed Thunderball.

    What so wonderful about those movies is they were part of the Zeitgeist of the time and Connery was there with the Beatles and George Best the Irish Footballer.

    For me they were exciting and aspirational and lead to all sorts of journeys in my life.

    However Connery who became more and more disenchanted and worried about being type cast then made YOLT and DAF. The latter he made so he could donate a large sum to charity and make some indie films, talk about going through the motions. So my purple patch became faded and jaded.

    Then we had George who tantalising and frustratingly stopped after one movie and 35 years of completely horizontal story telling which became increasingly tired with flashes in Tim's two films . The single mission films, the repetitive plot the YOLT film, was riffed twice. Rinse and Repeat, Rinse and Repeat.

    Then out of a clear blue sky the only way to go post 9/11 and for REAL development and momentum an exploration of the inner bond which on those terms has ended on a high where the Bond that looks at Vespers grave communicates I am older I think different I have been through something.

    So look back at this and watch your Blu Rays or whatever with real fondness and thank your lucky stars Barbara took the decision she did fifteen years ago.

    Given what you were looking for from these films far better to start in 2006 rather than the seventies or nineties where I came out year after year muttering next time next time.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,842
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I must be in the minority but I really enjoyed the more serious tone of this era, especially before the tonal shift in Spectre.

    I know Craig didn't want to be the glum or serious Bond forever but that tone suited him more in my opinion. He did have some funny lines in CR, QOS and SF.

    I prefer Bond to have a dry wit/dark humour than the Moore/Brosnan era constant quips

    I, too, enjoy the serious tone of the Craig films, as well as their sense of naturalism. That is not a damnation of the Moore era, though, as I find its lighter tone positively scrumptious. But the Craigs were more straight-faced, and I'm glad such Bond films exist too.
  • Posts: 1,394
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    They also shouldn’t feel like they have to go after best Oscar winners to play the villains.

    This I do agree with. I can think of a good few actors who’d make fantastic Bond villains who probably wouldn’t even get a look in now, because they seem to like casting a recent Oscar winner to add a bit of prestige.

    Famous names can work, obviously. I loved Bardem as Silva, and personally I thought Blofeld (just a shame about the foster brother gimmick) and Saffin were fine. But I don’t like the idea of only A listers getting to play Bond villains, because think of how many great performances we’d have missed out on if that was always the case.

    I think it could also be a result of the massive budgets, maybe need all the star power they can get just to make their money back? So, since the budget is probably going to be lower next time, I do think it’d be cool to have a less famous face as the villain again. Just to show that it’s still a possibility.

    Surely getting Oscar winners only ADDS to the high budget? But yeah,they should just cast the right actor for the role.I don’t think many people knew who Mads Mikkelson was before CR and he ended up being one of the all time best Bond villains.Certainly he was the best of the Craig era.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    FoxRox wrote: »
    One thing I want to see return is more epic hand-to-hand fights, a la Bond vs. Grant, Bond vs. Trevelyan, Bond vs. Sandor / Jaws, etc. Craig got into a lot of brief combat tussles, but other than the train fight with Hinx, didn't really get a memorable, lengthy fight along these lines. And I think we're almost unanimous in agreeing we want less personal, less rogue, less drama stuff next era, though with the way action films just are now, fat chance sadly.

    Don’t forget the stairwell fight vs Obanno & goon in Casino Royale. Not lengthy but definitely one of the best fight scenes in the series
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,683
    FoxRox wrote: »
    One thing I want to see return is more epic hand-to-hand fights, a la Bond vs. Grant, Bond vs. Trevelyan, Bond vs. Sandor / Jaws, etc. Craig got into a lot of brief combat tussles, but other than the train fight with Hinx, didn't really get a memorable, lengthy fight along these lines. And I think we're almost unanimous in agreeing we want less personal, less rogue, less drama stuff next era, though with the way action films just are now, fat chance sadly.

    Don’t forget the stairwell fight vs Obanno & goon in Casino Royale. Not lengthy but definitely one of the best fight scenes in the series

    I'd love to see a return to this, as well. And yeah, I suppose beyond the Hinx fight, the longest we get is between Bond and Obanno (and his ill-fated goon). My favorite, however, will always be Bond fighting Slate, but that's over in a matter of seconds (thanks to Bond's incredible fighting skill in that movie). I'd just love to get another lengthy, memorable, possibly iconic fist fight in the next film.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 1,394
    It’s not just about the fisticuffs though.Part of what makes a great fight is the buildup which increases the suspense.The FRWL train fight is so good because Grant has been shadowing Bond during the whole film and when Bond is on his knees at gunpoint and relys oh his wits to get out if that situation it just makes it all the more exciting.

    The Spectre train fight while well staged,just comes out of nowhere and there is no buildup.It comes from the school of “ We hasn’t had an action scene in 10 mins so we should slot one in here “ thinking.

    I really liked the Bond vs Obanno fight in CR as well,great buildup of suspense and the fight itself is brilliantly staged.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't a lot of those actors and people like Forster and Mendes want to get involved primarily because of Daniel Craig and what he'd done with the role and how he'd transformed perceptions of what a Bond film could be? It'll be interesting to see if that continues in future.

    There is no future for Bond. He's dead. They killed him with bad narrative choices & poor writing.
    But everyone got one last payday out of the 'OMG they did that' event.

    fat-boohoo.gif

    Ha ha. Real machure. (SP intentional)

    kramer-beer.gif
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