NO TIME TO DIE - Questions Thread (SPOILERS!)

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    w2bond wrote: »
    Question:

    Who are:
    Alison Smith
    Sarah Jones
    Sir Sebastian D'Ath

    They are important enough to be named, and credited

    De Ath? Funny name.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,165
    w2bond wrote: »
    Question:

    Who are:
    Alison Smith
    Sarah Jones
    Sir Sebastian D'Ath

    They are important enough to be named, and credited

    If I had to guess, I’d say SPECTRE agents at the Cuba party and/or characters from a scene(s) which ended up being removed. It’s not uncommon for actors to remain credited even if their entire role is excised on the cutting room floor.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Riding a white swan to Matera
    Posts: 12,409
    I have a question, which I feel sure has been answered somewhere (but I was only now wondering about this). Not just for NTTD, but also SP because my question is:
    How did Madeleine get her last name? Just curious. I don't recall coming across this being mentioned. Then again, I have been absent for most of the past several years.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 5,593
    It’s never mentioned, but I’d imagine it was made up just to not be associated with her father.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Riding a white swan to Matera
    Posts: 12,409
    Really? I have been off here so long, I thought for sure that was figured out.
    We can all assume then. Swann is just so symbolic, in a few ways. Ok; thanks.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 600
    There's a lot of old posts detailing the Madeleine Swann/Proust connection buried on here somewhere. Lots to chew on in those.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 784
    As for how the character got it, in-universe, I think there are basically three options. I don't know if there is any background information that proves or disproves any of this. One would have to go through the four films this is relevant in and look through all the background info, I guess:
    1. Mr. White's name isn't White. It's a codename and his actual, civilian name is Swann.
    2. Swann is Madeleine's mother's name. Either she never took the name White or they were divorced at some point and Madeleine got her mother's name (bringing this together with the seperate problem of Madeleine saying her parents divorced) or she took the name after the events of the NTTD PTS to distance herself from her father (either as an emotional coping mechanism or to hide herself).
    3. It's made-up and she took it or her father gave it to her to hide her from SPECTRE/Safin.

    The fact that she never seems to change it or even be in any way interested in changing it or mentioning it's not her real name, for me points toward #3 not being the answer, although it probably is the cleanest possibility.
    #1 Seems obvious, but makes little sense, when we think that Madeleine was in fact trying to hide. SPECTRE surely would know her father's real name and look for her that way. It could of course be the case (and is still pretty likely) that neither "White" nor "Swann" are the real names of the man we know as Mr. White.
    I'm kind of leaning towards #2, even though it basically has the same problems as #1 and we still don't really know how her parent's relationship evolved. SPECTRE surely would have known who White was married to.

    So it's probably something like #3. A name she just picked and there is so much crap involved with her maiden name that she sticks with this new identity even after all of her past is unravelled.

    And maybe she pulled a "Rise of Skywalker" and changed her and Mathilde's name to Bond at the end =P~
  • Posts: 206
    Mallory wrote: »
    Who closes the blast doors?

    Either:

    Safin does, and then somehow makes it all the way down the stairs and into the garden to shoot Bond, who hadnt made it that far away.

    ...or...

    Bond’s random flipping of the switches, and not waiting for Q’s correct method, caused them to only open temporarily and not permanently. So Bond is more responsible for his fate.

    I appreciate it is probably the first one, but the second is more interesting.

    I just assumed it was Safin that closed them. Then he waited for Bond to run through the garden.

    Though it would be interesting if it was Bond that screwed it up by not listening to Q's correct method.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 200
    Zarozzor wrote: »

    Though it would be interesting if it was Bond that screwed it up by not listening to Q's correct method.

    All those years of not paying attention come back to bite him…
  • This is only daft speculation - but how do you think Maddy got up the duff? I mean, I know how she did, I'm not five, but was it an accident or could they actually have been trying for a family?
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,556
    This is only daft speculation - but how do you think Maddy got up the duff? I mean, I know how she did, I'm not five, but was it an accident or could they actually have been trying for a family?

    By my timeline, knocked up on the train in Spectre.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 784
    There is speculation by some people that they actually got married and Matera is their honeymoon. I don't think that is the case. Same as them planning on having a family. The way she implores him to get past Vesper, seems like there is still a lot of uncertainty between them and she wants to see if he can do that before she tells him she is pregnant and so on. The way I interpret it, she has known for a bit - that's why she thinks of her own mother - and is waiting for things to be right to tell him.

    Do we know how much time there is between them driving off at the end of SP and the second part of the NTTD PTS? Because if it is only a couple of weeks, Craig-Bond really has a thing with falling head over heels for women he's only known a couple of weeks. Which is a bit Fleming-esque, only that for Craig, death gets in the way, whereas Fleming-Bond usually gets tired of the women he fell for.
  • Do we know how much time there is between them driving off at the end of SP and the second part of the NTTD PTS? Because if it is only a couple of weeks, Craig-Bond really has a thing with falling head over heels for women he's only known a couple of weeks. Which is a bit Fleming-esque, only that for Craig, death gets in the way, whereas Fleming-Bond usually gets tired of the women he fell for.

    I don't think it was a few weeks, a few month I reckon. At least long enough for her to find out she's up the duff.

  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 200
    It doesn’t take a few months to know if you are pregnant. Missed period means take a test . So a few weeks is plenty of time
  • If it is a matter of weeks, it's almost a whirlwind affair like Vespa.

    I like the Spectre train theory.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    If it is a matter of weeks, it's almost a whirlwind affair like Vespa.

    I like the Spectre train theory.

    The train going towards the crater base is top-tier symbolism.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 600
    SP train theory, for sure. As for the timing of the PTS, I go with a few weeks. As long as it takes to drive from London, with overnight stops.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,556
    Minion wrote: »
    If it is a matter of weeks, it's almost a whirlwind affair like Vespa.

    I like the Spectre train theory.

    The train going towards the crater base is top-tier symbolism.

    Lol 😂 Its North by Northwest all over 🤣
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 200
    Mallory wrote: »

    Lol 😂 Its North by Northwest all over 🤣

    But with a Madeleine which is Vertigo
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 784
    So the story of James and Madeleine is:
    They meet at the clinic. She gets kidnapped, Bond saves her. Day 1
    They go to Tangier and figure out the thing with the secret room and get on the train to nowhere. Hinx attacks and they have sex. Depending on how long it took them to get to Tangier and on the train and everything that's between Day 3 and Day 7 at most, right?
    The whole party at Oberhauser's happens. They profess their love. Still somewhere between 3 and 7 days, right?
    They travel back to London and meet the Scooby gang. Madeleine leaves Bond and get's kidnapped. He saves her and walks away with her after apprehending Blofeld. Again, depending on travel, this is somewhere between Day 5 and Day 10 after meeting for the first time.
    An unknown amount of time passes. Bond takes the DB5 and they drive off towards continental Europe.
    They take some amount of time until they arrive in Italy, spend one night in Matera and then the next day the SPECTRE attack happens and Bond puts her on the train.
    Five years later, they meet in Belmarsh. After her disappearing, Bond finds her in Norway. He went by car, so that probably took him a day or two. Even if it took him longer, that is time spent apart. He stays the night and on the next day she and Mathilde are kidnapped. Bond and Nomi immediatly go to Safin's island (probably with an overnight flight, given the distances) where Bond frees them and then dies.

    The unknows for me at the moment - without re-watching SPECTRE - really are the time between Bond leaving Blofeld on the bridge and taking the car and the time between that and them arriving in Matera.
    We don't know exactly how long they took to travel from Austria to Morocco and from there back to London, but from my memory there is no indication that they did anything else in between or that the travel took an unusual amount of time.
    At most, they knew each other for about 10 days by the time he saves her from the MI6 building. If they spent a couple of weeks at his place in London and then another two weeks driving down to Italy, that would mean they spent about six weeks together? Plus the one evening into the next morning in Norway. That's it. And most of it in transit.

    Am I missing something here? We could probably look at seasons to figure out at what point in the year the various story parts happen, but that would be a bit over-the-top right?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    As for how the character got it, in-universe, I think there are basically three options. I don't know if there is any background information that proves or disproves any of this. One would have to go through the four films this is relevant in and look through all the background info, I guess:
    1. Mr. White's name isn't White. It's a codename and his actual, civilian name is Swann.
    2. Swann is Madeleine's mother's name. Either she never took the name White or they were divorced at some point and Madeleine got her mother's name (bringing this together with the seperate problem of Madeleine saying her parents divorced) or she took the name after the events of the NTTD PTS to distance herself from her father (either as an emotional coping mechanism or to hide herself).
    3. It's made-up and she took it or her father gave it to her to hide her from SPECTRE/Safin.

    The fact that she never seems to change it or even be in any way interested in changing it or mentioning it's not her real name, for me points toward #3 not being the answer, although it probably is the cleanest possibility.
    #1 Seems obvious, but makes little sense, when we think that Madeleine was in fact trying to hide. SPECTRE surely would know her father's real name and look for her that way. It could of course be the case (and is still pretty likely) that neither "White" nor "Swann" are the real names of the man we know as Mr. White.
    I'm kind of leaning towards #2, even though it basically has the same problems as #1 and we still don't really know how her parent's relationship evolved. SPECTRE surely would have known who White was married to.

    So it's probably something like #3. A name she just picked and there is so much crap involved with her maiden name that she sticks with this new identity even after all of her past is unravelled.

    And maybe she pulled a "Rise of Skywalker" and changed her and Mathilde's name to Bond at the end =P~

    Mr White s real name was apparently Hans Koenig.
  • Posts: 10,816
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.

    That was actually the only bit which I found shoehorned in to 'reflect modern sensibilities', I'm glad to say.
  • Posts: 10,816
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.

    That was actually the only bit which I found shoehorned in to 'reflect modern sensibilities', I'm glad to say.

    Yes. I can only think they put it in to address the ever-topical issue of racism and/or just make Valdo a little more unlikable since he was mostly just comedic beforehand, despite being involved in a very evil plot.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 5,593
    As for how the character got it, in-universe, I think there are basically three options. I don't know if there is any background information that proves or disproves any of this. One would have to go through the four films this is relevant in and look through all the background info, I guess:
    1. Mr. White's name isn't White. It's a codename and his actual, civilian name is Swann.
    2. Swann is Madeleine's mother's name. Either she never took the name White or they were divorced at some point and Madeleine got her mother's name (bringing this together with the seperate problem of Madeleine saying her parents divorced) or she took the name after the events of the NTTD PTS to distance herself from her father (either as an emotional coping mechanism or to hide herself).
    3. It's made-up and she took it or her father gave it to her to hide her from SPECTRE/Safin.

    The fact that she never seems to change it or even be in any way interested in changing it or mentioning it's not her real name, for me points toward #3 not being the answer, although it probably is the cleanest possibility.
    #1 Seems obvious, but makes little sense, when we think that Madeleine was in fact trying to hide. SPECTRE surely would know her father's real name and look for her that way. It could of course be the case (and is still pretty likely) that neither "White" nor "Swann" are the real names of the man we know as Mr. White.
    I'm kind of leaning towards #2, even though it basically has the same problems as #1 and we still don't really know how her parent's relationship evolved. SPECTRE surely would have known who White was married to.

    So it's probably something like #3. A name she just picked and there is so much crap involved with her maiden name that she sticks with this new identity even after all of her past is unravelled.

    And maybe she pulled a "Rise of Skywalker" and changed her and Mathilde's name to Bond at the end =P~

    Mr White s real name was apparently Hans Koenig.

    How many last names does one family need...!
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 784
    As for how the character got it, in-universe, I think there are basically three options. I don't know if there is any background information that proves or disproves any of this. One would have to go through the four films this is relevant in and look through all the background info, I guess:
    1. Mr. White's name isn't White. It's a codename and his actual, civilian name is Swann.
    2. Swann is Madeleine's mother's name. Either she never took the name White or they were divorced at some point and Madeleine got her mother's name (bringing this together with the seperate problem of Madeleine saying her parents divorced) or she took the name after the events of the NTTD PTS to distance herself from her father (either as an emotional coping mechanism or to hide herself).
    3. It's made-up and she took it or her father gave it to her to hide her from SPECTRE/Safin.

    The fact that she never seems to change it or even be in any way interested in changing it or mentioning it's not her real name, for me points toward #3 not being the answer, although it probably is the cleanest possibility.
    #1 Seems obvious, but makes little sense, when we think that Madeleine was in fact trying to hide. SPECTRE surely would know her father's real name and look for her that way. It could of course be the case (and is still pretty likely) that neither "White" nor "Swann" are the real names of the man we know as Mr. White.
    I'm kind of leaning towards #2, even though it basically has the same problems as #1 and we still don't really know how her parent's relationship evolved. SPECTRE surely would have known who White was married to.

    So it's probably something like #3. A name she just picked and there is so much crap involved with her maiden name that she sticks with this new identity even after all of her past is unravelled.

    And maybe she pulled a "Rise of Skywalker" and changed her and Mathilde's name to Bond at the end =P~

    Mr White s real name was apparently Hans Koenig.

    Where is that from?
    Makes sense with the „Pale King“ moniker…
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.

    That was actually the only bit which I found shoehorned in to 'reflect modern sensibilities', I'm glad to say.

    Yes. I can only think they put it in to address the ever-topical issue of racism and/or just make Valdo a little more unlikable since he was mostly just comedic beforehand, despite being involved in a very evil plot.

    It seemed to me like that was the answer to somebody asking „So why does she kill hin then and not an hour earlier?“ after reading the script.
    I guess she (and possibly parts of the audience) previously thought he was mainly innocent and then they went full throttle to make clear that he is an evil man…
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    As for how the character got it, in-universe, I think there are basically three options. I don't know if there is any background information that proves or disproves any of this. One would have to go through the four films this is relevant in and look through all the background info, I guess:
    1. Mr. White's name isn't White. It's a codename and his actual, civilian name is Swann.
    2. Swann is Madeleine's mother's name. Either she never took the name White or they were divorced at some point and Madeleine got her mother's name (bringing this together with the seperate problem of Madeleine saying her parents divorced) or she took the name after the events of the NTTD PTS to distance herself from her father (either as an emotional coping mechanism or to hide herself).
    3. It's made-up and she took it or her father gave it to her to hide her from SPECTRE/Safin.

    The fact that she never seems to change it or even be in any way interested in changing it or mentioning it's not her real name, for me points toward #3 not being the answer, although it probably is the cleanest possibility.
    #1 Seems obvious, but makes little sense, when we think that Madeleine was in fact trying to hide. SPECTRE surely would know her father's real name and look for her that way. It could of course be the case (and is still pretty likely) that neither "White" nor "Swann" are the real names of the man we know as Mr. White.
    I'm kind of leaning towards #2, even though it basically has the same problems as #1 and we still don't really know how her parent's relationship evolved. SPECTRE surely would have known who White was married to.

    So it's probably something like #3. A name she just picked and there is so much crap involved with her maiden name that she sticks with this new identity even after all of her past is unravelled.

    And maybe she pulled a "Rise of Skywalker" and changed her and Mathilde's name to Bond at the end =P~

    Mr White s real name was apparently Hans Koenig.

    Where is that from?
    Makes sense with the „Pale King“ moniker…

    I think it was from an official prop requisite. Or was it Friedrich Koenig?
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,556
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.

    That was actually the only bit which I found shoehorned in to 'reflect modern sensibilities', I'm glad to say.

    Yes. I can only think they put it in to address the ever-topical issue of racism and/or just make Valdo a little more unlikable since he was mostly just comedic beforehand, despite being involved in a very evil plot.

    It was only there to give her a reason to kick him into the vat of nanobots/poison and kill him.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This is a minor moment within the movie, but did anyone else find Valdo’s extremely racist suggestion to Nomi near the end really surprising? I felt it came out of nowhere and there were no previous suggestions his character was a bigot.

    That was actually the only bit which I found shoehorned in to 'reflect modern sensibilities', I'm glad to say.

    Yes. I can only think they put it in to address the ever-topical issue of racism and/or just make Valdo a little more unlikable since he was mostly just comedic beforehand, despite being involved in a very evil plot.

    They didn't need to do it at all, it felt awkward. And I don't know if we were supposed to cheer Nomi when she shot him, but that part didn't quite work for me.
    But as I say, it's the only bit I found that I could honestly say was wokeish. I think Goldeneye was more obviously channeling the prevailing moral zeitgeist when M called Bond a 'sexist misogynist dinosaur'.
  • And I don't know if we were supposed to cheer Nomi when she shot him

    Kicks him off the walkway I should have said.

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