NO TIME TO DIE - Questions Thread

1568101130

Comments

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    mtm wrote: »
    The film's storytelling is murky at a number of places.

    Yeah for a filming trying desperately to tie up loose ends, it definitely gave us a few more to pull at
  • That’s why I think the film would have benefited from cutting out Spectre and Blofeld completely and just focus entirely on Safin. It put so much on its plate that even at nearly 3 hours it feels stretched thin in places.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I honestly got a bit confused by all of the poisons and who they kill: Safin's red one was threatening but I felt I missed whether it targeted the Swanns or not- I only really understood when it had broken, and even then Safin seemed to be saying that he and Bond were in the same boat and couldn't meet anyone ever again, which seemed slightly contrary to what it seemed it did.

    The red one was Safin's insurance. He reveals to Swann that he commissioned to Waldo one dose of Heracles with her DNA as the target. We can see him collecting one of Swann's hair in her office. This way he basically has total control of her life and Mathilde's. Then, when Bond is getting the upper hand, he gasses him but during the fight the little bottle breaks so he gets poisoned too. Everything is extremely simple and seamless.

    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    I read it as him doing a bit about how both of them are cursed to never be able to touch the one they love again (don't think he says everyone, but due to the virus multiplying through asymptomatic carriers until it finds Madeleine, that is in fact the case, if they want to save her) and they are stuck on this island forever fighting each other whithout being able to ever actually gaining the thing they are fighting over. Basically, he perceives himself to be in some kind of grand Greek or Shakespearean tragedy. Only he doesn't realise his opponent isn't into tragedies and just shoots him in the head.

    He is remarkably unfazed by the broken arm...
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    His reaction made perfect sense since after their fight they both won't be able to touch Madeleine ever again. They're both doomed.

    It only makes perfect sense if you think he cares as much as Bond, but we've seen him not give a toss whether Mathilde stays with him or not. Muddled storytelling again.
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Indeed, but muddled by the film showing us his plans (not his buyers') to kill millions of people in the lab, and the DNA data leak which comes from Valdo's (working for Safin) drive.
    The film's storytelling is murky at a number of places.

    Those projections were either commissioned by the buyers or prepared by Safin to show the power of Heracles to the buyers.

    You're filling those details in again; I don't recall that ever being said.

    I think it's a good film but there are flaws in how it's put together.

    Safin doesn't care about Mathilde. He cares only about her mother because he loves her and he believes her life is his property.

    Anyway I don't really care if the film doesn't explain every tiny detail. The big picture is perfectly clear and filling those little details is pretty easy.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 68
    I understood it as Safin intentionally used the vile on Bond by breaking it across Bond’s face. What is this Gassing Bond that you mentioned above? You said Safin gassed Bond and the vile broke on accident?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    His reaction made perfect sense since after their fight they both won't be able to touch Madeleine ever again. They're both doomed.

    It only makes perfect sense if you think he cares as much as Bond, but we've seen him not give a toss whether Mathilde stays with him or not. Muddled storytelling again.
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Indeed, but muddled by the film showing us his plans (not his buyers') to kill millions of people in the lab, and the DNA data leak which comes from Valdo's (working for Safin) drive.
    The film's storytelling is murky at a number of places.

    Those projections were either commissioned by the buyers or prepared by Safin to show the power of Heracles to the buyers.

    You're filling those details in again; I don't recall that ever being said. Nomi literally says "He'll kill millions" - it's clear that the audience is supposed to infer that it's his plan. And yet a few minutes later it isn't.

    I think it's a good film but there are flaws in how it's put together.

    You keep saying it was muddled, but it was clear to me both viewings what was going on. Was it Safin’s dialogue you had trouble understanding? As for Matilde, Safin doesn’t care about Matilde. He loves Madeleine, not her spawn with Bond. The point is the vial he breaks would kill both of them.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Safin rapidly sprayed Bond at the beginning of their fight (in the face) but then the small red bottle broke in his hand so he got accidentally poisoned too. Anyway the film previously established that Heracles is transmitted by even the briefest touch of the skin so since they were fighting, Safin would've probably got infected too.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    matt_u wrote: »
    Safin rapidly sprayed Bond at the beginning of their fight (in the face) but then the vile broke in his hand so he got accidentally poisoned too.
    I don’t remember that. He shoots Bond, is grabbed, and smashes the vial on Bond’s head while he’s breaking his arm.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Minion wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Safin rapidly sprayed Bond at the beginning of their fight (in the face) but then the vile broke in his hand so he got accidentally poisoned too.
    I don’t remember that. He shoots Bond, is grabbed, and smashes the vial on Bond’s head while he’s breaking his arm.

    He doesn't smash the vial on his head to me... Bond doesn't even move his head while Safin does that and the sound effect is closer to the sound of spraying something. That part is not perfectly clear tho and I think there are a couple of continuity errors with Bond's scar on his face too. Maybe you are right anyway. I'll pay super attention at that sequence tonight.

  • Yeah I don’t remember him spraying Bond with anything, just breaking the vial and scratching him.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Indeed. I was also under the impression that he simply smashes it across Bond's face.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Then it’s weird that Bond’s head doesn’t even move when Safin smashes the vial on his face… the execution is a little bit messy then.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    matt_u wrote: »
    Then it’s weird that Bond’s head doesn’t even move when Safin smashes the vial on his face… the execution is a little bit messy then.
    He does flinch, but Safin is a tiny, weak little man who can’t do much against his aggressor, so Craig shrugs it off pretty easily. Now imagine Brosnan’s face in that same situation.
  • Pain face for days
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    edited October 2021 Posts: 371
    Did anyone else noticed that Remi Malek's character is named Lyutsifer Safin because:

    Lyutsifer = Lucifer = Devil

    Safin = Seraph - A seraph (/ˈsɛrəf/, "the burning one"; plural seraphim /ˈsɛrəfɪm/)[nb 1] is a type of celestial or heavenly being originating in Ancient Judaism. The term plays a role in subsequent Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. - Wiki

    Intentional imo
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Ultimately it's a small piece of glass getting broken against him so considering he's already been shot at this point I don't necessarily see it why it would require a bigger reaction from Bond. I do recall him holding his face and taking a second to realize what's happened.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    It looked like he had no reaction at all. Even tho the scars on his face were pretty noticeable. No big deal tho.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,351
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Did anyone else noticed that Remi Malek's character is named Lyutsifer Safin because:

    Lyutsifer = Lucifer = Devil

    Safin = Seraph - A seraph (/ˈsɛrəf/, "the burning one"; plural seraphim /ˈsɛrəfɪm/)[nb 1] is a type of celestial or heavenly being originating in Ancient Judaism. The term plays a role in subsequent Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. - Wiki

    Intentional imo

    I took it more like Lucifer Satan...
  • You can hear a slight break of the glass, but I think they didn't have him react right away so that the audience realizes what happens the same time that he does....when he reaches up to touch his face. Most powerful moment of the film for me.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 5,774
    Gerard wrote: »
    Oh, a GF (the book) reference ! Clever !

    What's the reference, for those of us not as steadfast on the books? (And maybe post it into the easter eggs thread as well...)

    It happens at the end of chapter 14. Bond and Tilly have been captured and brought before Goldfinger, and Goldfinger says : "Mister Bond, they have a saying in Chicago : "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time, it's enemy action."" Not only that, but each of the three parts of the novel is named after one of these things : Happenstance (chapters 1 to 7), Coincidence (chapter 8 to 14), and Enemy Action (chapters 15 to 23). So the fact that Bond's sailboat is named Happenstance can't be a coincidence.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,884
    Thanks for answering my earlier questions. Too many replies to respond to.

    I really need to watch the film again to see who's speaking to Primo during their raid on the lab. I could have sworn it was Safin but that's not possible since it seems like Primo only hears from him after Blofeld's death later on.
  • Posts: 490
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I honestly got a bit confused by all of the poisons and who they kill: Safin's red one was threatening but I felt I missed whether it targeted the Swanns or not- I only really understood when it had broken, and even then Safin seemed to be saying that he and Bond were in the same boat and couldn't meet anyone ever again, which seemed slightly contrary to what it seemed it did.

    The red one was Safin's insurance. He reveals to Swann that he commissioned to Waldo one dose of Heracles with her DNA as the target. We can see him collecting one of Swann's hair in her office. This way he basically has total control of her life and Mathilde's. Then, when Bond is getting the upper hand, he gasses him but during the fight the little bottle breaks so he gets poisoned too. Everything is extremely simple and seamless.

    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    I read it as him doing a bit about how both of them are cursed to never be able to touch the one they love again (don't think he says everyone, but due to the virus multiplying through asymptomatic carriers until it finds Madeleine, that is in fact the case, if they want to save her) and they are stuck on this island forever fighting each other whithout being able to ever actually gaining the thing they are fighting over. Basically, he perceives himself to be in some kind of grand Greek or Shakespearean tragedy. Only he doesn't realise his opponent isn't into tragedies and just shoots him in the head.

    He is remarkably unfazed by the broken arm...

    Oh wow this is genius. I feel so dumb for not realizing that Safin doomed himself also, not just Bond. Makes sense since he said they are both poisoned by heartbreak. Yeah Safin clearly smashed it across Bond's head and also cut his hand in the process so it got into his bloodstream, even though just touching it on the skin would suffice.

    Safin is truly a delusional, pathetic little man and Rami sold that so well. He actually thought he had a chance with Madeline. Bond doesn't give a toss about him whatsoever and just coldly and unceremoniously executes him. His death suited him so well.

    And yeah he really didn't seem to care about having his arm broken.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Minion wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    His reaction made perfect sense since after their fight they both won't be able to touch Madeleine ever again. They're both doomed.

    It only makes perfect sense if you think he cares as much as Bond, but we've seen him not give a toss whether Mathilde stays with him or not. Muddled storytelling again.
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Indeed, but muddled by the film showing us his plans (not his buyers') to kill millions of people in the lab, and the DNA data leak which comes from Valdo's (working for Safin) drive.
    The film's storytelling is murky at a number of places.

    Those projections were either commissioned by the buyers or prepared by Safin to show the power of Heracles to the buyers.

    You're filling those details in again; I don't recall that ever being said. Nomi literally says "He'll kill millions" - it's clear that the audience is supposed to infer that it's his plan. And yet a few minutes later it isn't.

    I think it's a good film but there are flaws in how it's put together.

    You keep saying it was muddled, but it was clear to me both viewings what was going on. Was it Safin’s dialogue you had trouble understanding? As for Matilde, Safin doesn’t care about Matilde. He loves Madeleine, not her spawn with Bond. The point is the vial he breaks would kill both of them.
    ertert wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I honestly got a bit confused by all of the poisons and who they kill: Safin's red one was threatening but I felt I missed whether it targeted the Swanns or not- I only really understood when it had broken, and even then Safin seemed to be saying that he and Bond were in the same boat and couldn't meet anyone ever again, which seemed slightly contrary to what it seemed it did.

    The red one was Safin's insurance. He reveals to Swann that he commissioned to Waldo one dose of Heracles with her DNA as the target. We can see him collecting one of Swann's hair in her office. This way he basically has total control of her life and Mathilde's. Then, when Bond is getting the upper hand, he gasses him but during the fight the little bottle breaks so he gets poisoned too. Everything is extremely simple and seamless.

    Yes it's just Safin's reaction didn't quite make sense after it had broken to me. He seemed to act like neither of them could leave or see anyone again.

    I read it as him doing a bit about how both of them are cursed to never be able to touch the one they love again (don't think he says everyone, but due to the virus multiplying through asymptomatic carriers until it finds Madeleine, that is in fact the case, if they want to save her) and they are stuck on this island forever fighting each other whithout being able to ever actually gaining the thing they are fighting over. Basically, he perceives himself to be in some kind of grand Greek or Shakespearean tragedy. Only he doesn't realise his opponent isn't into tragedies and just shoots him in the head.

    He is remarkably unfazed by the broken arm...

    Oh wow this is genius. I feel so dumb for not realizing that Safin doomed himself also, not just Bond. Makes sense since he said they are both poisoned by heartbreak.

    That's the part I didn't really buy: I don't particularly believe that Safin cares for her all that much. They only share two scenes together and in one of them he's barely paying her any attention and is more interested in her daughter and has Madeline taken away (and then later lets Mathilde run off because he doesn't care if she lives or dies). That he's in love with her... I get that he says it but I'm not shown any reason to believe it.

    Which made that final scene in the pool of water where he tries to paint it that they're both doomed just not ring true for me. I didn't buy that he wouldn't just happily leave the island at any time if he could even if he had the virus on him. He had the red vial made after all, he must have been willing to use it at some point.

    Bond puts Madeline's life above his, that's perfectly understandable. But Safin seems to be claiming that he does the same... nah, no way. Anyone who does think that way doesn't have a poison vial that kills the person they love on them at all times.
  • I think Safin thinks he loves Madeline, but as you say he has no real reason to do so. He just has a warped sense of what “love” means, and thinks that she owes him her life just because he saved her (when he’s the one who put her in a situation she needed saving from) all those years ago.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 14,861
    I think he thinks he does, yeah, but claiming that he would be trapped on the island just the same as Bond just clearly isn't true and doesn't work: he would leave and damn the Swanns to death quite happily. If he wasn't prepared to use the poison he wouldn't have made it.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 721
    I read it as him doing a bit about how both of them are cursed to never be able to touch the one they love again (don't think he says everyone, but due to the virus multiplying through asymptomatic carriers until it finds Madeleine, that is in fact the case, if they want to save her) and they are stuck on this island forever fighting each other whithout being able to ever actually gaining the thing they are fighting over. Basically, he perceives himself to be in some kind of grand Greek or Shakespearean tragedy. Only he doesn't realise his opponent isn't into tragedies and just shoots him in the head.
    Safin says, quite literally, just before his death:

    "Now we are both poisoned with heartbreak. Two heroes in a tragedy of our own making. Anyone we touch, we are their curse."

    Thematically, it's consistent with the presentation of Silva & Waltz-Blofeld in the previous films as the distorted reflection of Craig-Bond himself - at least I think that's what they were going for ...


  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 721
    I think Safin thinks he loves Madeline, but as you say he has no real reason to do so. He just has a warped sense of what “love” means, and thinks that she owes him her life just because he saved her (when he’s the one who put her in a situation she needed saving from) all those years ago.

    If only the film had explored that ... but Safin's "love" for Madeleine seems to come from nowhere. Madeleine hadn't even recognized him as 'the masked man' when treating him as his psychotherapist.

    I mean, whaaa? Did I miss something here?
  • Posts: 299
    Maybe it's a silly question but what are the rules of this coin game played by James Bond and Felix in Jamaica?
  • Back to the eyeball for a minute. Is anyone in agreement with me that Primo just has multiple eyeballs? Blofeld didn’t have an eyeball in his cell or in his eye socket. My point is Primo lost his in Matera, his was the one also being escorted around at the party on the pillow that was subsequently picked up by Bond or Nomi and was then hacked by Q. I never got the feeling Blofeld had a bionic eye too
  • Posts: 299
    JazzyBond wrote: »
    Back to the eyeball for a minute. Is anyone in agreement with me that Primo just has multiple eyeballs? Blofeld didn’t have an eyeball in his cell or in his eye socket. My point is Primo lost his in Matera, his was the one also being escorted around at the party on the pillow that was subsequently picked up by Bond or Nomi and was then hacked by Q. I never got the feeling Blofeld had a bionic eye too

    Eyeball hacked by Q was taken from Blofeld by Nomi during her (unseen) visit in Belmarsh prison.
    M talks about this with Bond in London before he is reinstated as 00.
Sign In or Register to comment.