NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    I don't think it was muted. I think Bond just mouthed it to himself because he was still processing it.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Absolutely!! Thankfully Cary added her into the script last minute. Ana De Armas is a star in the making
    For me, De Armas stole the entire movie right from under her female co-stars. Everything was so good about her performance, even the the casual manner Craig tossed the machine gun to her and the way she caught it and turned. Beautifully choreographed and executed. BladeRunner had already given her a push up the ladder, but NTTD will do even more for her now.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    bondsum wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Absolutely!! Thankfully Cary added her into the script last minute. Ana De Armas is a star in the making
    For me, De Armas stole the entire movie right from under her female co-stars. Everything was so good about her performance, even the the casual manner Craig tossed the machine gun to her and the way she caught it and turned. Beautifully choreographed and executed. BladeRunner had already given her a push up the ladder, but NTTD will do even more for her now.

    Couldn't agree more. She showed more charisma in her cameo than Seydoux and Lynch managed combined.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,104
    I loved Paloma's last line to Bond
    'Stay longer next time'
    or to that effect.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Ana rocked!! Great character, superb performance ... in terms of action and wit. I loved this sequence.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I don't think it was muted. I think Bond just mouthed it to himself because he was still processing it.

    I had no problem hearing it.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I don't think it was muted. I think Bond just mouthed it to himself because he was still processing it.

    That's exactly how I saw it, the scene actually got a laugh both times I saw the film and a woman next to me said "aww"
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    Posts: 74
    hated the use of 'i know' as he died. he's not han solo. and even in star wars you have a note of hope for a shared universe of other characters..a new..hope
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,657
    Just reading through part (not all...it's too much) of the recent posts, it struck me that one thing I sort of felt strange about the movie was on purpose: Whatever happened to her, Mathilde never cried, never got teary, never strongly demanded to see her mother, but more or less stoically accepted her fate, bit her way through. The most emotional thing from her was missing Dou Dou, but at the same time searching for him/her/it.

    I think this can be interpreted as a sure sign that she is in fact Bond's child. Blue eyes alone don't suffice for that.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,036
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Just reading through part (not all...it's too much) of the recent posts, it struck me that one thing I sort of felt strange about the movie was on purpose: Whatever happened to her, Mathilde never cried, never got teary, never strongly demanded to see her mother, but more or less stoically accepted her fate, bit her way through. The most emotional thing from her was missing Dou Dou, but at the same time searching for him/her/it.

    I think this can be interpreted as a sure sign that she is in fact Bond's child. Blue eyes alone don't suffice for that.

    When she said she was missing her Dou Dou, I thought she meant her Dou Dou 7 (007).

    It was only after the fact I realised it was the bunny thing 🤣
  • Posts: 81
    Belinus wrote: »
    My wife is French and we live in the Uk. Our son was brought up with English as a first language but his comprehension of French has always been excellent. As a 5 year old (he’s now 20) he would happily watch French or Uk Tv and would equally understand people talking to him in either language, but he always replied in English. I guess what I’m saying is that Mathilde’s behaviour in that concern seems entirely expected given her circumstances
    Yes my sentiments exactly.

  • edited October 2021 Posts: 295
    jobo wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    One of the bizarre, ironic aspects of Bond dying is it (sort of) vindicates the CraignotBond group. They can say "Craig's Bond is a loser. He dies. He's not the hero. Fans supported a loser Bond for fifteenth years."

    Had Craig's Bond survived NTTD he is the winner. He can go off with Madeleine and Mathilde and have a family life or still remain an active 00. He retains his inherent heroic status.

    By ending Craig's tenure with Bond atomized (!) it plays into the hands of anti Craig Bond fans. "See, we told you he wasn't right for the role. Barbara Broccoli appeased him too much and you get a crappy, depressing ending."




    What a completely pointless argument to make. The people on "CraignotBond" have made up their mind anyway. Why should the producers care about them? Why should we care?

    Well, maybe they can laugh (a bitter sad laugh) that his casting led to the death of James Bond. Had fate shown its fickle hand in another way Eon might have cast another actor, one that had no desire to see Bond dead.

    I've noticed one telling omission from the last 80 or so pages on this thread.... no-one has attributed any blame to Daniel Craig? Not aware of such comments. Clearly Craig wanted his Bond to die so when I see guys like The Bond Experience giving sycophantic interviews with Craig and Craig seemingly totally oblivious to the negative reaction Bond's death has generated in Bond fandom, I can't help but feel CraigisnotBond people got the final laugh. They achieved a very perverse victory. Be you pro or anti Craig's casting and his four subsequent Bond films, the harsh truth is had Eon never cast Craig we wouldn't have some fans (I stress some, not all) using words like "betrayal" to describe the ending of NTTD.

    Maybe when NTTD has ended its theatrical run worldwide Mr Craig can give a post Bond career interview and say "sorry if we upset any fans with the death of Bond."

    I have doubt such words will ever be uttered by the man.
  • bondywondy wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    One of the bizarre, ironic aspects of Bond dying is it (sort of) vindicates the CraignotBond group. They can say "Craig's Bond is a loser. He dies. He's not the hero. Fans supported a loser Bond for fifteenth years."

    Had Craig's Bond survived NTTD he is the winner. He can go off with Madeleine and Mathilde and have a family life or still remain an active 00. He retains his inherent heroic status.

    By ending Craig's tenure with Bond atomized (!) it plays into the hands of anti Craig Bond fans. "See, we told you he wasn't right for the role. Barbara Broccoli appeased him too much and you get a crappy, depressing ending."




    What a completely pointless argument to make. The people on "CraignotBond" have made up their mind anyway. Why should the producers care about them? Why should we care?

    Well, maybe they can laugh (a bitter sad laugh) that his casting led to the death of James Bond. Had fate shown its fickle hand in another way Eon might have cast another actor, one that had no desire to see Bond dead.

    I've noticed one telling omission from the last 80 or so pages on this thread.... no-one has attributed any blame to Daniel Craig? Not aware of such comments. Clearly Craig wanted his Bond to die so when I see guys like The Bond Experience giving sycophantic interviews with Craig and Craig seemingly totally oblivious to the negative reaction Bond's death has generated in Bond fandom, I can't help but feel CraigisnotBond people got the final laugh. They achieved a very perverse victory. Be you pro or anti Craig's casting and his four subsequent Bond films, the harsh truth is had Eon never cast Craig we wouldn't have some fans (I stress some, not all) using words like "betrayal" to describe the ending of NTTD.

    Maybe when NTTD has ended its theatrical run worldwide Mr Craig can give a post Bond career interview and say "sorry if we upset any fans with the death of Bond."

    I have doubt such words will ever be uttered by the man.

    It's worth saying that the death of Bond in NTTD has also had some very positive reactions within the Bond fandom. Please don't assume you speak for all of us.
  • Posts: 295
    bondywondy wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    One of the bizarre, ironic aspects of Bond dying is it (sort of) vindicates the CraignotBond group. They can say "Craig's Bond is a loser. He dies. He's not the hero. Fans supported a loser Bond for fifteenth years."

    Had Craig's Bond survived NTTD he is the winner. He can go off with Madeleine and Mathilde and have a family life or still remain an active 00. He retains his inherent heroic status.

    By ending Craig's tenure with Bond atomized (!) it plays into the hands of anti Craig Bond fans. "See, we told you he wasn't right for the role. Barbara Broccoli appeased him too much and you get a crappy, depressing ending."




    What a completely pointless argument to make. The people on "CraignotBond" have made up their mind anyway. Why should the producers care about them? Why should we care?

    Well, maybe they can laugh (a bitter sad laugh) that his casting led to the death of James Bond. Had fate shown its fickle hand in another way Eon might have cast another actor, one that had no desire to see Bond dead.

    I've noticed one telling omission from the last 80 or so pages on this thread.... no-one has attributed any blame to Daniel Craig? Not aware of such comments. Clearly Craig wanted his Bond to die so when I see guys like The Bond Experience giving sycophantic interviews with Craig and Craig seemingly totally oblivious to the negative reaction Bond's death has generated in Bond fandom, I can't help but feel CraigisnotBond people got the final laugh. They achieved a very perverse victory. Be you pro or anti Craig's casting and his four subsequent Bond films, the harsh truth is had Eon never cast Craig we wouldn't have some fans (I stress some, not all) using words like "betrayal" to describe the ending of NTTD.

    Maybe when NTTD has ended its theatrical run worldwide Mr Craig can give a post Bond career interview and say "sorry if we upset any fans with the death of Bond."

    I have doubt such words will ever be uttered by the man.

    It's worth saying that the death of Bond in NTTD has also had some very positive reactions within the Bond fandom. Please don't assume you speak for all of us.

    I wrote:
    the harsh truth is had Eon never cast Craig we wouldn't have some fans (I stress some, not all) using words like "betrayal" to describe the ending of NTTD.

    I referred to some fans, not all. I wasn't speaking for all fans.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,834
    I don't understand the incredibly wild assumption that the death of James Bond wouldn't have happened if Craig hadn't been cast? You make it sound like he came in for Casino Royale and was like "I'll only do it if you kill me at the end.", which is stupid because Spectre was nearly his last.

    Also, I don't really know where this assumption has come from that it was Craig's desire to die, could it not have been a natural concept devised by the producers, writers, and/or the director? Just because Harrison Ford asked for his ending, doesn't mean every other actor has done the same thing.
  • Thanks, Jordo. Thanks, thetruth.
    Look: there is a very divisive tone on here at the moment and a lack of tolerance of the passion that binds us: Bond!

    So thanks for being kind.
    We all love this series, this character or why else be here?
    None of us has the definitive take. None has a hot line to EON and nobody gets points for sycophancy anymore than they do hating the film.

    I will reiterate: had Daniel's Bond died in Quantum of Solace? Ok. Even Casino! But the fact is Casino Royale WAS meant yes as hard reboot but NOT necessarily the start of an 'arc'. At its end, the experiment was done and Bond was Bond, having explained why he is why he is, he could just 'be', with or without Craig.

    Skyfall, though I adore it, muddied those waters by beginning us on a course to resume the fun and it was self contained, too. End it there: Craig and if need be, yes, the series. When he is on that rooftop at the end, amidst a sea of union jacks: anything was possible from there on and showing what came 'next' is arguably the mistake they made, much as I get why everyone wanted more after a billion dollar gross! But in 2012: the world felt better, so did the UK, and so did Bond. Now? all 3 feel a bit weaker, in parallel. So the new film has failed me.

    And SPECTRE + NTTD really just feel tonally illiterate and the death therefore, to my mind, anyway, at odds with BOTH the Craig take AND the series ethos of yes, be bold and thrilling and even dark on occasion, but no actor or era, let alone 007 itself, gets definitive 'end'.

    Yeah, the premise and story of SF definitely came too early in Craig's tenure and should have been used as the film to close out Craig's run.
  • Posts: 2,400
    To the people who are on board with NTTD and the people it didn't work for alike...

    ...I've learned to remember which usernames are parroting nonsense such as "well you don't care that Bond died" (I very much do, I had a profound emotional reaction to the scene last week) or "this vindicates everyone who says Craig was a bad Bond because his tenure failed" (it doesn't, Craig's portrayal has been met with massive acclaim and his five films are responsible for more business than any other tenure, and even combinations of multiple tenures put together combined).

    Now, when I see one of those names, I skip over the comment. It's very helpful.
  • I don't see how the clowns at craignotbond got the last laugh. Craig has occupied the role longer than any other actor, even sticking with the role when there were huge gaps between films. Craig wasn't fired or dismissed because of unpopularity, he's vacated the role on his own terms and in high, regardless of what some fans think about tge NTTD and especially it's ending.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The more I think about it, it’s not even that they killed him that bothers me (again, I admittedly still need to see the picture). I think I said in another thread, I would probably feel really sad if any of the other actors died in the role, but not Craig. I think he’s a great Bond, but I’ve never felt that attachment to him. What bothers me, I would guess, really happened with QOS (which I greatly enjoy) and this, NTTD, is just the fulfillment of it. From the moment they decided to turn this era into an overarching saga I have been displeased with that direction. I love QOS, but it could have stayed essentially the same, without having such a direct connection to CR. Actually, keep Mr. White and Quantum, and carry on without the Bond/Blofeld backstory and leave out any major future references to Vesper. That’s all you need, a thin thread of continuity. I would’ve thought the EON would’ve learned a lesson from SF, and realize that the standalone pictures are a hit the audience after that one. Also that film gave us that great denouement, which told us we are back to square one, we are ready to go. My two biggest problems with SP were that it was boring, and that it tried too hard to force this continuity upon us. Now with this latest one they put it all out there. That this Era is so important that this figure has this neat little arc, and of course it must end in his death. The brazenness of the whole thing has always bothered me. Before this latest twist. That this arc had to be treated as it’s own thing. But aside from that, looking at CR and SF, it’s at least three, maybe four, great standalone exciting, Bond adventures, one foot in tradition, with the new look and a new bite to it. More than the death, I think it’s that. Because I realized that if there was a one shot Brosnan film, taken out of continuity, giving us an old man Bond. at the end of his days, and then they killed him off, I’d be fine with it.

    I really think it comes down to it bothering me that EON took itself and this last run of films so seriously and so preciously. It’s not the death.

    Agreed. I love QoS, and it was the direction I was eager for the Bond series to go in. The films didn't need bloody Q and gadgets. They'd proved that with the fantastic CR.

    Much as I like SF (it's still overrated) and I enjoyed this last film, i still think it's a shame they almost got cold feet and went all formulaic on us with regards to Bond’s MI6 environment.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 648
    bondywondy wrote: »
    I can't help but feel CraigisnotBond people got the final laugh. They achieved a very perverse victory. Be you pro or anti Craig's casting and his four subsequent Bond films, the harsh truth is had Eon never cast Craig we wouldn't have some fans (I stress some, not all) using words like "betrayal" to describe the ending of NTTD.

    What makes it worse is that Craig's Bond either quit, was fired, or went rogue in every single one of his movies, and was always the guy becoming Bond as opposed to being Bond. I like Craig in CR and QOS but he's practically a different character in SF and on.
  • To the people who are on board with NTTD and the people it didn't work for alike...

    ...I've learned to remember which usernames are parroting nonsense such as "well you don't care that Bond died" (I very much do, I had a profound emotional reaction to the scene last week) or "this vindicates everyone who says Craig was a bad Bond because his tenure failed" (it doesn't, Craig's portrayal has been met with massive acclaim and his five films are responsible for more business than any other tenure, and even combinations of multiple tenures put together combined).

    Now, when I see one of those names, I skip over the comment. It's very helpful.

    I'm presuming this includes me, don't you think that's what leads to conflict, sticking one's head in the sand. Not acknowledging a different opinion dosen't stop that opinion being as valid as yours.

    I'd offer a hand & bury the hatchet, I always read yours even though I know on NTTD we differ, doesn't mean I disagree with you on everything. So what do you say agree to disagree & stop with the cheap shots.

    Hell what am I saying you won't read this. 8-|
  • Posts: 81
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Thanks, Jordo. Thanks, thetruth.
    Look: there is a very divisive tone on here at the moment and a lack of tolerance of the passion that binds us: Bond!

    So thanks for being kind.
    We all love this series, this character or why else be here?
    None of us has the definitive take. None has a hot line to EON and nobody gets points for sycophancy anymore than they do hating the film.

    I will reiterate: had Daniel's Bond died in Quantum of Solace? Ok. Even Casino! But the fact is Casino Royale WAS meant yes as hard reboot but NOT necessarily the start of an 'arc'. At its end, the experiment was done and Bond was Bond, having explained why he is why he is, he could just 'be', with or without Craig.

    Skyfall, though I adore it, muddied those waters by beginning us on a course to resume the fun and it was self contained, too. End it there: Craig and if need be, yes, the series. When he is on that rooftop at the end, amidst a sea of union jacks: anything was possible from there on and showing what came 'next' is arguably the mistake they made, much as I get why everyone wanted more after a billion dollar gross! But in 2012: the world felt better, so did the UK, and so did Bond. Now? all 3 feel a bit weaker, in parallel. So the new film has failed me.

    And SPECTRE + NTTD really just feel tonally illiterate and the death therefore, to my mind, anyway, at odds with BOTH the Craig take AND the series ethos of yes, be bold and thrilling and even dark on occasion, but no actor or era, let alone 007 itself, gets definitive 'end'.

    Yeah, the premise and story of SF definitely came too early in Craig's tenure and should have been used as the film to close out Craig's run.
    Good point. SF was a victim of its own success. More’s the pity.

  • Posts: 4,599
    Its interesting that the theme of age and "losing a step" fits perfectly (by defintion) with the end of a tenue but, as pointed out, returning to the family home also fits in perfectly with the "full circle" concept. Ironic that, given those theme, DC looks much younger as the "old dog" in SF than he does in NTTD.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,104
    I lost a step a few years ago and then trained for 16 months and got back to peak condition in my late 40's and I am not far off athlete level fitness.

    We all lose our edge in life for various reasons, it does not mean we can not regain it mentally and physically.

    Also DC Bond in Skyfall is recovering from a nasty gun shot or two.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 39
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    I don't see how the clowns at craignotbond got the last laugh. Craig has occupied the role longer than any other actor, even sticking with the role when there were huge gaps between films. Craig wasn't fired or dismissed because of unpopularity, he's vacated the role on his own terms and in high, regardless of what some fans think about tge NTTD and especially it's ending.

    There are no "last laughs" for the Craignotbonders after the old Bond series was ruined with Craig's 16 year stint. But they were completely right in their criticisms of the reboot and the suitability of Craig for the role and his approach to the character.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449

    Jimjambond wrote: »
    I don't see how the clowns at craignotbond got the last laugh. Craig has occupied the role longer than any other actor, even sticking with the role when there were huge gaps between films. Craig wasn't fired or dismissed because of unpopularity, he's vacated the role on his own terms and in high, regardless of what some fans think about tge NTTD and especially it's ending.

    There are no "last laughs" for the Craignotbonders after the old Bond series was ruined with Craig's 16 year stint. But they were completely right in their criticisms of the reboot and the suitability of Craig for the role and his approach to the character.

    Craig ruined the old series? Those morons at cnb were right? Wow, now I've heard it all.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,104
    I am glad I compartmentalize and see Craig's era and other Bond era as separate entity's.

    NTTD and DN have no impact on each other to me, and both are great movies.
  • Posts: 87
    I am glad I compartmentalize and see Craig's era and other Bond era as separate entity's.

    NTTD and DN have no impact on each other to me, and both are great movies.

    In NTTD, there are probably the most references to DN. So the impact is significant IMO.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    One thing that struck me on my first viewing but I subsequently forgot about amidst, well.......everything else.

    I'm not sure if it was my screening (it very well could have been) but did the title song sound oddly muted in the mix for anyone else? I felt like all I could hear was Eilish's voice during certain parts of the chorus, which on the album is big, bold, emotional and powerful. I was more than a tad disappointed as I quite like the song, but the combination of that and Kleinman's disappointing visuals left me feeling rather flat.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,657
    My main problem with NTTD is right now that my wife did not want to go to the showing that I had ordered tickets for online (after having seen it solo the first afternoon) because she was (justifiably) afraid it might interfere with a video conference that she could not get out of. So I canceled those tickets. But my suggestion to go see it next Sunday together did not meet with great enthusiasm either. I have a feeling that she read somewhere (not here, and I didn't tell her either) what the outcome of the film is, and is sort of afraid to watch it. So I won't see it for a second time either for now. But I'll keep trying.
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