NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Review bombing isn’t new. RottenTomatoes had to deal with that for the longest time.

    In fact, KNIVES OUT had to deal with this issue too because they were Star Wars nerds review bombing it on IMDb and RT. There were reviews like “this is a ploy by Kathleen Kennedy to fix Rian Johnson’s career and make everyone forget he destroyed Star Wars! Don’t be fooled!!!”
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,665
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Just saw the film again, I have more questions than answers this time if I'm honest.

    So M was categorically against even horrified by the government spying on citizens in Spectre, but not the same government altering DNA against enemies of the state to kill them with a virus?

    DNA isn't altered. Its meant to be a way to only kill the intended target. And to get their DNA you'd have to do the legwork he describes in his speech to C.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Really? Review bombing, hateful trolls - that's all spiteful, infantile, and stupid. What a shame the industry and viewers and fans have to plough through muck like that these days. I wish there were an easier way to stop them.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Really? Review bombing, hateful trolls - that's all spiteful, infantile, and stupid. What a shame the industry and viewers and fans have to plough through muck like that these days. I wish there were an easier way to stop them.

    The internet can be a truly evil environment...
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    Remember: "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

    NTTD has succeeded in the latter, for sure, and that is not a bad thing.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I like the way the ending was in the spirit of Ian Fleming. Loved the use of his quote at the end.

    It was perfect.
  • Posts: 7,500
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.

    I didn't read any spoilers, but hearing all the talk of the "earth shattering", "fan dividing" plot twist, it wasn't hard to guess what it probably was. It was still an incredibly powerfull moment although I was mentally prepared for it.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    jobo wrote: »
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.

    I didn't read any spoilers, but hearing all the talk of the "earth shattering", "fan dividing" plot twist, it wasn't hard to guess what it probably was. It was still an incredibly powerfull moment although I was mentally prepared for it.

    It was by accident that I found out, not on this site but on YouTube, a random thumbnail appeared on my suggestions feed that gave away the ending.

    To be honest when I knew there was a OHMSS reference to the film a thought that went through my mind was that they could do a reversal of Bond and Tracy's fate with Bond and Madeline.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.

    I honestly think that if I'm going to walk away happy with the decision (or whatever description that leaves me feeling at least OK or understanding of the choice), it'll be because I knew about it beforehand and had time to mentally prepare and debate it, oddly enough. I hope I'm right.
  • NoWisemanNoWiseman Germany
    Posts: 34
    thetruth wrote: »
    I agree. What made Bond special is gone and can't come back. The magic has been broken.

    Exactly. That's my problem too. And unlike others i can not see the beauty in it.

  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    I wish I’d known the ending before seeing the film. I had successfully avoided all chat and spoilers so was completely clueless. I had thought that maybe Madeleine would either die or be the twist as a villain so that Bond.could return in the next film without any ties but I just didn’t see the end coming. Even as the missiles were landing on him…
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,665
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.

    I honestly think that if I'm going to walk away happy with the decision (or whatever description that leaves me feeling at least OK or understanding of the choice), it'll be because I knew about it beforehand and had time to mentally prepare and debate it, oddly enough. I hope I'm right.

    I was spoiled against my will the day before and I'm pretty sure it was a blessing in disguise.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 648
    ..
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 648
    Remember: "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

    That's one perspective. The best art in history promotes ideals, it doesn't disturb people.

  • bondywondy wrote: »
    Okay, maybe Bond is dead.

    If Bond is dead.... every fan will have to decide if they want to continue supporting the franchise. I can't see a valid reason to see Bond 26 if Eon destroyed the magic of Bond, his heroic status etc. You'll be giving Eon and Amazon money they don't deserve.

    Let me guess....you hate the Star Wars sequel trilogy and think that Kathleen Kennedy should be fired as well?
    I am baffled by all the negative reviews on IMDb, there were loads of Fleming references and great Bond moments in this film though many reviews claim the opposite.

    Also complaints of being long and boring, personally I thought the pacing was good and despite its run time the film flew by.

    (Adopts old woman loosing her teeth voice as she thoughtfully rubs her chin)

    It's one thing I have learned in all my years on the internet. Is that you need to learn to dismiss and ignore certain comments. Many of the negative comments are coming from beta males who just see Bond as a personal stand in, and represent a time when the hero wins without any or little effort. These are often the kind of people who have no purpose and thrust in life and think that the only way that they can succeed is that everyone else looses. And they become resentful and angry if anyone outshines them.

    So, anyone who dares to criticise this film or are negative of it are "beta males who just see Bond as a personal stand in and represent a time when the hero wins without any or little effort. These are often the kind of people who have no purpose and thrust in life and think that the only way that they can succeed is that everyone else looses. And they become resentful and angry if anyone outshines the them." I am gobsmacked. Here's me thinking I was a rounded individual, family, friends, enjoy cinema, play sport, have a couple of beers at the weekend etc etc - when in fact I am a beta male with no purpose and thrust in life. And why, because I didn't rate NTTD.

    I am away to break the sad news to my missus..
  • Posts: 820
    The man got a missile on his forehead.
    Ok, he Is strong, but I think you are overstimating him

    I don't know why - give how emotional I've been all week - but I laughed out loud at that first sentence.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The only spoiler I knew about NTTD was that Bond dies at the end, I was fuming i found that out a few days ago.

    With hindsight I think it prepared me for the ending and I accepted it without question.

    I honestly think that if I'm going to walk away happy with the decision (or whatever description that leaves me feeling at least OK or understanding of the choice), it'll be because I knew about it beforehand and had time to mentally prepare and debate it, oddly enough. I hope I'm right.

    I had a swell of emotion building up to it, my eyes welled up in the cinema. Though I was emotionally locked into the film from the pre titles, which surprised me as SP really left a sour taste for me.

    Credit to the film makers for making me care so quickly.

    When the film ended I thought I am so glad I saw NTTD at the cinema (Plus it keeps my run going since OP I have watched every bond film at the cinema since then).
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Given the fact I'm writing this on this thread I might be in minority... but I really loved Safin's character.

    He's the creepiest and most deranged of all Craig's villains and the scariest thing is that he truly believes to be a good man. He has this insane view of the world, of free will, of love. He literally saw death with his own eyes, he saw his mother dying horribly in front of him and once he saved Madeleine, he started to believe he could play God. It's not your typical evil mastermind and I just loved that he offered Bond a peaceful deal to settle things between the two of them. When he's on screen there's always that unpredictable feeling about him that makes his scenes extremely tense. He has an overall little screen time but his presence is heavily felt throughout the whole film. His last scene is just beautiful and Malek's acting is incredible in his final moments. It's also cool that his men refer to him as doctor.
  • Posts: 372
    The more I think about the movie that exists the more I wish they had made Danny Boyle's Bond movie. It seems he at least had the right idea that killing Bond was a crazy idea.
  • NoWisemanNoWiseman Germany
    Posts: 34
    I was spoiled against my will the day before and I'm pretty sure it was a blessing in disguise.

    I wish someone would have done that for me. I witnessed the end totally unprepared. And i don't want to feel something like that ever again at the end of a movie.

    The most gruesome cinema experience of my life.

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 686
    matt_u wrote: »
    Given the fact I'm writing this on this thread I might be in minority... but I really loved Safin's character.

    He's the creepiest and most deranged of all Craig's villains and the scariest thing is that he truly believes to be a good man. He has this insane view of the world, of free will, of love. He literally saw death with his own eyes, he saw his mother dying horribly in front of him and once he saved Madeleine, he started to believe he could play God. It's not your typical evil mastermind and I just loved that he offered Bond a peaceful deal to settle things between the two of them. When he's on screen there's always that unpredictable feeling about him that makes his scenes extremely tense. He has an overall little screen time but his presence is heavily felt throughout the whole film. His last scene is just beautiful and Malek's acting is incredible in his final moments. It's also cool that his men refer to him as doctor.

    I enjoyed him. He was a bit underused, but he wasn't bland, and I rather liked Malek's performance. I particularly liked the imagery at the start with the mask, and the broken mask later. It does take the film a little bit away from 'gritty' reality, but I think Bond needs those kind of visuals.
  • Posts: 526
    JB770721 wrote: »
    There IS a cultural trend at work here: unearned, rushed, mawkish hero deaths in haste, onscreen, thereby one by one toppling the kind of escapist symbols that punctuated life's mundanities via vicarious fix of escapism

    It's the modern social media 'buzz' trend is what all movies are after. People will go to see him die. I remember the people who weren't massive marvel fans rushing to the cinema because they heard Iron Man dies at the end. In fact the past two Bond films have felt almost like they have tried to mimic Avengers, bring more of 'team' into action sequences M (even fighting in Spectre), Moneypenny etc, the deaths of major characters, the arcing story etc.

    I hate Bond in a team concept structure (like the last 30 mins of Spectre). Is it like that in NTTD? God I miss the days of Casino Royale.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 648
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    The more I think about the movie that exists the more I wish they had made Danny Boyle's Bond movie. It seems he at least had the right idea that killing Bond was a crazy idea.

    Yeah, it's unbelievable to me how the producers sat on this ending for two years and didn't think that maybe killing an ageless hero was a horrible idea. It's irrelevant that Craig's Bond was its own timeline. Just the fact that they made a movie were Bond gets killed is something that can affect the overall perception of the series as a whole.

    What if Bond had been killed in the 70s or 90s? Wouldn't that have basically just ended everyone's enjoyment of the series right then and there? One of the reasons why the series worked was because Bond DIDN'T ever die, so I don't buy all these arguments about how moving on is easier now. Wasn't it always easy? Just get a new actor. There's no continuity-related justification for why Bond needed to be killed off other than for shock value.

    I also don't agree that this all started with Casino Royale. That movie set up a series which we never really got. CR was supposed to be an origin movie. At the end, he's Bond. Except we never got any of those movies of Craig's Bond being cool, suave, and badass, only dealing with emotional issues, trust issues, constantly quitting and going rogue, always bouncing back to "he's not really 007" at the start of each new movie. They essentially rebooted Craig with each movie and it got annoying really fast. CR is the only Craig movie that nearly everyone loves and even that's ruined by NTTD.

    I honestly cannot see how they can possibly make any more movies after this. And why would they? Part of Bond's appeal was his immortal image. The producers have destroyed that, unless they retcon it somehow.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    After my initial viewing of NTTD my DC ranking is...

    1 CR
    = NTTD
    3 QoS
    4 SF
    5 SP
  • Posts: 87
    I'm not questioning the significance the ending of NTTD. But if you keep restarting something because you are reaching the end, sooner than later you will throw it away.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 57
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I honestly cannot see how they can possibly make any more movies after this. And why would they? Part of Bond's appeal was his immortal image. The producers have destroyed that, unless they retcon it somehow.

    They make movies, because his appeal is not immortality, its $$$. Thankfully, that means he will be coming back. Also thankfully, the chances of him being killed again any time soon are pretty slim.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Simon wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I honestly cannot see how they can possibly make any more movies after this. And why would they? Part of Bond's appeal was his immortal image. The producers have destroyed that, unless they retcon it somehow.

    They make movies, because his appeal is not immortality, its $$$. Thankfully, that means he will be coming back. Also thankfully, the chances of him being killed again any time soon are pretty slim.

    Right. I’m willing to bet the new Bond won’t be seen killed. In fact, any future Bond promoting their last film will have major anticipation among fans on his ultimate fate.

    What would be intriguing is if a Bond actor agrees to only two films, but EON never announce his second will be his final. That would be even more shocking.
  • Posts: 526
    Above all, what people forget is that many fans, myself included, accepted Casino Royale as an origin story that could in theory set up ANY remake /tweak/merger of subsequent Bonds. Including winning the licence to GO big and bold and brash OR remain in THAT specific continuity and TONE, as they did with Quantum. Skyfall, however great and loved by me, muddied that trajectory because whilst it kept Bond grounded and did touch on loss, it pointed at having finally arrived at the right to do old school Bond, with or without Craig /that continuity. It was an upbeat but deep metatextual essay on Bond. SPECTRE blurred ALL those possibilities together but retained some childlike innocence. NTTD retains that messy over ambitious tonal blur yet loses the soft charm: worst of all worlds and a coherent match for neither the first or second batch of Craig's entries (imho).
    This is spot on. After Quantum, I would say the most serious Bond movie ever, we started a trip into camp land...then it went off the rails in Spectre. Honestly though, the version of Bond that I loved (CR, QOS), ended with Quantum. Dalton was edgy, gritty and tough as nails. Craig took it to another level imo. I don’t understand why they went away from the formula of the CR, QOS.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    You don't kill off a cash cow like this. There is nowhere to go now.

    The franchise needs a serious overhaul after this, a complete reboot, including the backroom team, because they have clearly run out of steam.

    This really a question directed at those who hold these sentiments rather than just you @jetsetwilly : Did you honestly believe that the next Bond actor would continue the version of Bond played by Craig, like how it used to be in the old days from Sean to Roger etc?

    If you had that expectation cemented in, I can now understand the confusion and frustration. Personally, I had already prepared myself for the idea that Craig’s run would be completely self contained and not have any carry over so that Craig’s version would have a definitive ending. No more Ralph Fiennes, no more Naomie Harris, Ben Whishaw, etc. I never expected any of this cast to play the role until they literally dropped dead like Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn.

    I think this is basically it. I'm not a Bond historian like some people here, but this is the first time they went into a production where everyone knew this was going to be the actor's last film, right? Add to that, that Craig has always been slightly to the side of the other films in terms of chronology, I guess they thought to themselves: If we are ever going to do a film in which
    Bond dies
    (btw, what's the policy on using the spoiler tag in this thread? Some do it, others don't...) this is it. They had Daniel's buy-in for it, they had an already seperated out mini-universe for which they can say "That's all one thing and now here is a new thing (or a return to how it was before CR)" so they went and did it.
    I have to say, once you get past whether that was the right call or not (and I am still torn on it), I like a lot about the way it happens.
    He isn't killed by a villain, but by the Royal frigging Navy (Well, kind of. We'll have to revisit, whether Bond basically failed again, like in SF). He gets to stand tall in the face of obliteration. He saved the world and those he loved. That's an ok way to go, I feel. I am not one for the cheesiness of those final lines, but if you decide to kill James Bond, there are many much worse ways to do it.

    + 1
    Exactly my feelings!
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