NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Posts: 4,541
    vasilismf wrote: »
    Also can someone tell me how the fuck was Robert Brown's M portrait at the left of Judi Dench's one?

    Yes, I spotted that, so much for a different universe

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,213
    bondsum wrote: »
    FourDot wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    You do realize a new iteration of Bond will happen and that the character isn’t dead forever right?
    Yes, but it does make the Craig era seem rather redundant and something of an anomaly. It'll be interesting to see how they market the next James Bond actor and his first movie. Will it be a case of asking you to forget Craig's entire tenure and demise and go with a new iteration that resembles the classic Fleming character, or will they still acknowledge everything that took place in Craig's universe, with his Bond somehow miraculously surviving to come back with a new face—something that was first mooted for Lazenby's Bond movie, but ultimately dropped by the producers?

    Personally I think they'll go for a hard reboot, resetting the dials to zero. In all likelihood, they'll probably allow Ralph Fiennes to reprise his role again as M, the same way they allowed Judi Dench to crossover into CR, but that will most likely be it.

    How is it redundant? It's 5 films that tell a cycle of stories and have arguably repositioned Bond culturally. As mentioned above, all great mythic characters die and are reborn.
    Redundant in that there's no consistency. It begins and ends with Craig. As an audience we all knew that Lazenby, Moore and Dalton were the same character as Connery's Bond—they just happened to be played by different actors, is all. Brosnan is where things start to get a little sketchy but, to all intents and purposes, it's the same character that featured in OHMSS. Not so with Daniel Craig's Bond. Aside from Blofeld, his Bond never went toe-to-toe with any of the same adversaries or even married Countess Teresa di Vicenzo. His Bond dies without having achieved that much, unlike the other Fleming iterations. You mention that all great mythic characters die and are reborn. That might be true had Craig's Bond reached the same mythical status as the previous Bonds, but his Bond only scratched the surface. His only took on a small handful of adversaries then popped his clogs!
    Garth007 wrote: »
    This is apalling. So, let me get this straight. The gunbarrel looks like a 3rd grader edited it. The big dots cut of the little dots. Almost again zero Bond theme, the only decent theme with the motif, is that agent who has 30 seconds of screentime, which she is completely dominate in the scene. I though the bond theme was for Bond and not anyone else. Hans Zimmer did a disservice, scoring a bond film, and not even using the theme LOL. That is utterly pathetic, plus these themes from other bond movies being used within the film that have nothing to do with it is a joke. The film was delayed over a year and this is the best score they came up with. I do not care what the film is about, but to score it like it is a love story is utter crap. You had plenty of time to properly do this. Then this nanobot technology, and bond dies at the end from some missile nonsense. Of course, he has a daughter, we got to continue the bs script of Craigs era, and this is why his movies aren't even bond movies, in my humble opinion. Missing complete parts of the formula. Yet, these young generation seems to be more important to Barbra broccoli, as well as Daniel Craig to appease them versus your entire cliente. This movie, I do not think i will ever see this crap film. I had high hopes but this is unforgivable. Been a fan for 25 years and this is a laughing stock. Just to appease Daniel Craig as a sign off. Not worth it, at all.

    Well I mean that's like your opinion man. The rest of us will enjoy the film wether good or bad. Even the worst of the bond films still have enjoyment to them. This one is no different...

    That is what separates true Bond fans from amateurs.

    Oh, are we a tad little arrogant, Sirrah?
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 46
    patb wrote: »
    vasilismf wrote: »
    Also can someone tell me how the fuck was Robert Brown's M portrait at the left of Judi Dench's one?

    Yes, I spotted that, so much for a different universe

    It goes together with the Aston martin i believe ahahha (the db5 was the one from Dimitrios in CR and not from Goldfinger, but the V8? How bond had it?
  • Bond wrote: »
    I echo others here who've said that it's hard to imagine a way forward from here, given the finality of what they put to screen in NTTD.

    The only way forward that I think could really work well would be to make the next Bond actor's tenure be a period piece from the 1930s/40s/50s.

    It'll allow the writers to (mostly) keep their political agendas out, and will give us some Bond fodder from the decades preceding the first actual official Bond film in 1962.

    Also, many like to harp about how the very character of James Bond himself is outdated, a relic of older times due to his misogyny, womanizing, political incorrectness, etc. Well... if you grant they are correct, there's no way to continue a "present-day" Bond 007 series without either awkwardly maintaining that outdated persona or "updating" Bond to a modern day man, which I don't think ANYONE wants.

    Also, let's be honest... the heydays of MI6 (and Britain herself) were back in those days, not 2021.

    I agree with a lot of what you say I've thought for a long time that maybe EON should purchase the rights to the Anthony Horowitz novels which are pretty good and from Fleming's unused material, set in the 50's they would be the perfect way to relaunch and refresh the series as from a more relevant period.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    edited September 2021 Posts: 630
    I loved every minute of It.
    It's all Just damn perfect. Ties closed, old Friends, enemies, Revenge, love, action.
    And if Craig's Bond has to die, this Is the perfect how and the perfect why.
    All his arc has been about protecting the love without actually succeeding in doing that. Vesper dies, M dies, Matisse dies, Felix dies, he Is still there and he finally understands he has to make the ultimate sacrifice for his loves to live.
    Beautiful.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Some people are really tetchy on here.

    I really liked it but apparently that makes me not a proper fan.

    Some people just want a time piece with no development. Guaranteed if we'd stayed on the DAD trajectory or still with Pierce and then cast another actor with no proper reset like they did, Bond would have been nowhere the success it has been.

    BB & MGW have been vindicated in their decisions and the casting of Craig, the films have never been just for the hardcore fan base they are for a mass audience.

    Also how hard is to accept this is going to be a complete reboot, a new timeline, a new Bond, quite possibly a new MI6 team.

    All this coming up with scenarios to keep this one going is as daft as the one where people were trying to tie the DN - DAD era to the DC one.

    Those that didn't like this era should be happy, they can ignore the blonde, grumpy fella and after DAD and skip right to the next era if they like.

    DC has been a hugely successful Bond in the mainstream, it is just factions of the fan base that see utter disaster.

    Crybabies that didn't get the Bond film that was in their head.

  • edited September 2021 Posts: 2,432
    Bond wrote: »
    I echo others here who've said that it's hard to imagine a way forward from here, given the finality of what they put to screen in NTTD.

    The only way forward that I think could really work well would be to make the next Bond actor's tenure be a period piece from the 1930s/40s/50s.

    It'll allow the writers to (mostly) keep their political agendas out, and will give us some Bond fodder from the decades preceding the first actual official Bond film in 1962.

    Also, many like to harp about how the very character of James Bond himself is outdated, a relic of older times due to his misogyny, womanizing, political incorrectness, etc. Well... if you grant they are correct, there's no way to continue a "present-day" Bond 007 series without either awkwardly maintaining that outdated persona or "updating" Bond to a modern day man, which I don't think ANYONE wants.

    Also, let's be honest... the heydays of MI6 (and Britain herself) were back in those days, not 2021.

    The ending with Swann telling Mathilde a story about a man called Bond, James Bond could be some sort of jumping off point, but to what I don't know (remakes of previous Bonds?!). Really reminded me of Fleming's self-referential ending to YOLT where he writes about an author writing the stories of Commander Bond.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,768
    *Spoiler tag for the end of the film. If you haven't seen it, please I beg you don't click on the tag
    I'd hate to ruin this for anyone

    Just got back from seeing NTTD...
    That's the first time I've seen a film on opening night were the entire audience booed Bond's demise. Quite a few left before the film's last line

    Truthfully I'm underwhelmed
    They could have given me a mixture of From Russia With Love and Casino Royale, I would still walk away unsatisfied with that ending. I haven't processed the film properly yet admittedly, but upon initial viewing I feel betrayed as a fan of James Bond
  • Posts: 2,391
    vasilismf wrote: »
    Also can someone tell me how the fuck was Robert Brown's M portrait at the left of Judi Dench's one?

    I mean, it's not exactly ridiculous to me that he could've been the head of MI-6 before Olivia Mansfield in the Craig universe, too. I would imagine she became M around the same time in both the GE-DAD and CR-SF worlds.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,843
    I'm just fed up of everyone talking about their bloody emotional reactions, crying and stuff, for gods sake it's a Bond movie, this film is a bunch of contrite SH12. Bond films should be about glamour, excitment, exotic locations and action with lots of thrills, not coming out of the cinema sounding like you need to see a shrink. Come on guy's & gals, get a grip, accept NTTD is a load of boswelox & move on.

    @SpectreNumberTwo enjoy (or don’t enjoy) the movies however you like, but don’t tell others how to because that’s none of your business.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    *Spoiler tag for the end of the film. If you haven't seen it, please I beg you don't click on the tag
    I'd hate to ruin this for anyone

    Just got back from seeing NTTD...
    That's the first time I've seen a film on opening night were the entire audience booed Bond's demise. Quite a few left before the film's last line

    Truthfully I'm underwhelmed
    They could have given me a mixture of From Russia With Love and Casino Royale, I would still walk away unsatisfied with that ending. I haven't processed the film properly yet admittedly, but upon initial viewing I feel betrayed as a fan of James Bond

    Find a Better cinema :D

    We only had applauses
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,326
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    *Spoiler tag for the end of the film. If you haven't seen it, please I beg you don't click on the tag
    I'd hate to ruin this for anyone

    Just got back from seeing NTTD...
    That's the first time I've seen a film on opening night were the entire audience booed Bond's demise. Quite a few left before the film's last line

    Truthfully I'm underwhelmed
    They could have given me a mixture of From Russia With Love and Casino Royale, I would still walk away unsatisfied with that ending. I haven't processed the film properly yet admittedly, but upon initial viewing I feel betrayed as a fan of James Bond

    Where did you watch mate? Was in Manchester yesterday and no booing everyone just looked shell shocked. Watching in speke later on though so be interesting to see if the booing is a Merseyside thing lol it's certainly how I feel about it.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,768
    DCisared wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    *Spoiler tag for the end of the film. If you haven't seen it, please I beg you don't click on the tag
    I'd hate to ruin this for anyone

    Just got back from seeing NTTD...
    That's the first time I've seen a film on opening night were the entire audience booed Bond's demise. Quite a few left before the film's last line

    Truthfully I'm underwhelmed
    They could have given me a mixture of From Russia With Love and Casino Royale, I would still walk away unsatisfied with that ending. I haven't processed the film properly yet admittedly, but upon initial viewing I feel betrayed as a fan of James Bond

    Where did you watch mate? Was in Manchester yesterday and no booing everyone just looked shell shocked. Watching in speke later on though so be interesting to see if the booing is a Merseyside thing lol it's certainly how I feel about it.

    The odeon in Bromborough on the Wirral mate (Not far from were Daniel grew up)

    I'll be honest, I wouldn't boo it, there was a lot of amazing stuff in it but that ending didn't sit well with me. I was one of the only ones left in the theater patiently waiting for James Bond Will Return. More than 3/4 left before Madeline's final line
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 9
    So the people who want them to make the same film again and again forever are upset. So be it. You have 20 of those. Maybe when a franchise is this long it's not a bad thing to have a spell doing something different?

    The cinema I was in loved it, and the script was on another level to Spectre, (Ok that's not hard) Sophie Waller-Bridge clearly did some incredible work. The humour was natural and well integrated rather than cringe. It felt like a film everyone really wanted to make, whereas Spectre clearly no-one cared, or all the behind the scenes stuff beat the will out of them. Craig was incredible and clearly cared again.

    I hated the idea of Madeline coming back, and as the film went on was genuinely impressed they made it work, and wonderfully, and for that, whoever figured out the story deserves immense, immense credit. After the pre-credits I was a bit worried because it was exactly as I expected, she betrays him etc etc. Doing what everyone feared and then turning it on its head was I think much more clever than any ideas anyone here had for what to do with her. The 007 part was also done exceptionally well.

    It was beautifully shot, the dialogue was good, everything in Cuba and with Felix was wonderful, and a lovely touch with the 'I had a brother' line later. Yes obviously there's a debate about whether he should have died or they could have given the happy ending, but obviously everyone involved wanted it to be this way, and I think if that was the decision, they did it well.

    As others have already said, lots here clamour for Fleming...Fleming was not about happy endings. It's kind of the point of the character and maybe some of you have only just got a rude awakening about that.

    Bond is not a superhero. He's a pretty messed up character and if you think you're supposed to admire him go and read more Fleming.

    Ps. One person said 'they only made Q gay to be woke'. You know Ben Whishaw is gay in real life? Are you genuinely saying no gay person can ever be shown in film or it is 'woke' whatever you think that means? Or do you just object to relationships in films being shown generally? I really really don't get this idea that showing something that is very common in real life is being just to be 'woke'. It's weird not to show it! If you have a problem with a world where gay people exist being shown, that's probably your problem, not the film. Why on earth does it matter?
  • Initially intended as spoiler free but put it in a spoiler warning to be on the safe side- I talk about the third act and my problems with it without saying what actually happened, but my friend suggested my opinions may be enough to give away the ending for some people.

    Just trying to create as little mayhem on this board and in the Bond community as possible!

  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,326
    neila83 wrote: »
    h

    Top first post and lovely last paragraph.
    Edit- well the one that was there.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,768
    The Matera sequence was phenomenal, my highlight of the film. Not to say everything else wasn't up there but the Matera stuff was edge of your seat stuff and that Craig at peak Fleming Bond
  • Jordo007 wrote: »
    The Matera sequence was phenomenal, my highlight of the film. Not to say everything else wasn't up there but the Matera stuff was edge of your seat stuff and that Craig at peak Fleming Bond
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    The Matera sequence was phenomenal, my highlight of the film. Not to say everything else wasn't up there but the Matera stuff was edge of your seat stuff and that Craig at peak Fleming Bond
    DCisared wrote: »
    neila83 wrote: »
    h

    Top first post and lovely last paragraph.
    Edit- well the one that was there.
    DCisared wrote: »
    neila83 wrote: »
    h

    Top first post and lovely last paragraph.
    Edit- well the one that was there.

    Thanks, sorry, it's back, had a little editing error!
  • "Do you know what time it is? Time to die." - Nomi

    Iconic.

    With the nonsense Valdo said to her, he had it coming.
  • Posts: 14,781
    Initially intended as spoiler free but put it in a spoiler warning to be on the safe side- I talk about the third act and my problems with it without saying what actually happened, but my friend suggested my opinions may be enough to give away the ending for some people.

    Just trying to create as little mayhem on this board and in the Bond community as possible!


    Enjoyed your thoughts. I'm prepping to see it next week.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 5,868
    I have now seen it.

    I'm underwhelmed. To put it simply, I didn't like it. And I really wanted to like it. But I didn't.

    The first 40m of the film are impressive, but then it goes south without any chance for remission.

    Well, that was that.

    Moreover, I believe the universe we once loved, the Bond style of films died with it. Long gone is the womaniser, stylish secret agent. I don't believe he's coming back.

    What a melodrama of epic proportions. And I didn't feel for it. Not once. For the first time, I left the cinema and a Bond film feeling...nothing.

    Sure there are brilliantly executed scenes, and the direction is very good, despite most of it looking cartoonish, but although I was loving the first part of the film, it all fell fast and hard.
    Bond is dead
    . Really. Because I don't imagine they'll leave this approach, ever. I thought this film had a chance at at least being sexy. But it isn't. After all, you can't really do sexy anymore.

    I'm sure there are parts of it I'll praise, given time. But for now, I just deflated.

    Underwhelmed and deflated.

    It's interesting how much quality DC's tenure has. And yet, it doesn't get to my heart. Not really. I can't explain it more than this. I liked his tenure. They were the best years of my life. I really like Mr. Craig. And I've been always a strong EON supporter in every way.

    But...I don't like what they've done to Bond. Not in this film. And not just the ending.

    Now, I would've paid good money to watch those Bond and Felix Cuban adventures, but hey, they don't go for that. We have to watch soap operas of epic proportions every single g damn time.

    Rant over.

    Univex out
  • Univex wrote: »
    After all, you can't really do sexy anymore.

    Speak for yourself. Most normal people are still being sexy, it's only those who were weird about it who are suddenly finding things difficult.

  • Posts: 5,868
    neila83 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    After all, you can't really do sexy anymore.

    Speak for yourself. Most normal people are still being sexy, it's only those who were weird about it who are suddenly finding things difficult.

    I meant in the cinema. Obviously.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,843
    .
    Look I don't really give a stuff if you liked it or not, If your an emotional f**k wit who cried then great for you, let it out, but don't have a go at me for my opinion, as we have people everywhere and know where you live.......... ;)

    I haven’t even seen it yet.

    Act like a grown up.

    And It's grown up to start picking on someone because they don't share your views about something your not even qualified to talk about. Unless you've served and seen what I've seen in the real world you have no idea what being a grown up is, so as I told your bum chum get over yourself.

    You were literally just deriding people for crying during the film.

    Look just drop it, your obviously one of these sensitive souls who feels every little thing, so god help you and leave me the f**k alone.

    *you’re
  • RainyRainy Skyfall
    Posts: 40
    It’s interesting I talked to a lot of my friends who saw it today who aren’t really hardcore Bond fans and I feel like most really enjoyed it. I do wonder what the general audience will think of it around the world.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,768
    @Univex summed it up perfectly mate. I'm more nervous about the direction of the franchise, if this film is an indication. Hopefully this film leads to another Casino level entry
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,391
    .
    Look I don't really give a stuff if you liked it or not, If your an emotional f**k wit who cried then great for you, let it out, but don't have a go at me for my opinion, as we have people everywhere and know where you live.......... ;)

    I haven’t even seen it yet.

    Act like a grown up.

    And It's grown up to start picking on someone because they don't share your views about something your not even qualified to talk about. Unless you've served and seen what I've seen in the real world you have no idea what being a grown up is, so as I told your bum chum get over yourself.

    You were literally just deriding people for crying during the film.

    Look just drop it, your obviously one of these sensitive souls who feels every little thing, so god help you and leave me the f**k alone.

    *you’re

    :)) :))
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,187
    I think general audiences would probably be inclined to enjoy it more. The character isn’t so sacred to them so some of the choices made aren’t interpreted as a betrayal of the character but a fresh diversion from the norm.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 5,868
    I think general audiences would probably be inclined to enjoy it more. The character isn’t so sacred to them so some of the choices made aren’t interpreted as a betrayal of the character but a fresh diversion from the norm.

    Of course. I think you are right. General audiences will only see the "quality film" it is.

    But, as a lifelong James Bond fan, I hated two of the choices they've made. Those two choices really ruin it all for me.

    And I was one of those who, knowing that he
    died
    and that he had a
    little daughter
    for the third act of the film, defended those options. But after watching it, for me, those choices killed it, they've ruined it. Watching James Bond
    dying with a stuffed pink rabbit on his stride, saying I love you to Maddie - BTW, I still don't feel for them as a couple, it all sounds false to my hears and eyes
    was simply excruciating.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,843
    @Birdleson you’re a better man than I.
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