Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,021
    The Star Wars approach would be more like having a main Bond film every two years, which is what many of you seem to be salivating. In between those years would be random spin-off films.

    I could picture an adaptation of Quantum of Solace with Benedict Cumberbatch as Philip Masters.

  • If we get a Bond film like Spectre every 6 years I'd rather they didn't make anymore at all. ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    edited June 2021 Posts: 6,716
    It was that good.

    PwA4YB.gif

    (Seriously, I love it)
  • Posts: 1,556
    Were B Cumberbatch to play a role, I could see him in a period Bond film, playing (oh, the elusive) "Fleming's Bond", though I think they'd opt out on the racism, stick with the schooling and its influences on Bond (he went to top end schools but didn't finish where he started, and when his folks died he stayed with his aunt and became a [comparatively] poor kid surrounded by rich kids used to the posh life, stick with his getting kicked out of school "due to an incident with one of the maids", stick with his choice to experience the best of everything (because tomorrow, or today, you may die, and not out of jealousy of the rich kids), the comfort with killing, the loyalty to father figure M, the skirt-chasing, the gambling, the use of some drugs, the heavy drinking and heavy smoking [the levels in the books were rather impossible in terms of his survival, and he'd have smelled and tasted AWFUL which would have conflicted with skirt-chasing so perhaps some backing off on these], the thrill-seeking adrenaline junkie traits, the fussiness about his food and apartment and vehicles, also keeping May. In other words, I think he'd be a fine choice of actor -- as well as the more handsome Michael Fassbender -- to portray the very English guy with mixed experiences and traits.
  • Posts: 14,816
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!
  • Posts: 1,469
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I have always like Easton's FYEO. Used to not be the biggest fan of the film, though now I love it, but the song I always liked.
    I agree, it is a good song. It got to #4 in the U.S., #8 in the UK, and got an Oscar nomination. And of course it goes well with the scene showing Bond's folder in M's office. By the way, perhaps I should've added that the reason why I prefer up or medium-tempo songs for Bond films is because I think they go best with the action element.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,677
    NSNA is, overall, a decent Bond movie. Including the "theme", if one is ready to accept the film as such, instead of condemning it just because one has been conditioned to the original THUNDERBALL and being unable to accept a different take on the story. I probably mentioned it before, but I must have seen NSNA a few times before I ever saw TB, and found TB quite a bit more tedious and less exciting than NSNA. I am aware this is considered heresy with the majority on this board, but I stand by the opinion that I find NSNA more entertaining, though not "the better movie" overall, than TB.
  • Posts: 15,801
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    NSNA is, overall, a decent Bond movie. Including the "theme", if one is ready to accept the film as such, instead of condemning it just because one has been conditioned to the original THUNDERBALL and being unable to accept a different take on the story. I probably mentioned it before, but I must have seen NSNA a few times before I ever saw TB, and found TB quite a bit more tedious and less exciting than NSNA. I am aware this is considered heresy with the majority on this board, but I stand by the opinion that I find NSNA more entertaining, though not "the better movie" overall, than TB.

    I love NSNA. I watch it fairly often and find it to be quite solid. Many of the Craig movies seem influenced by NSNA, especially SF: Bond having to deal with a new M who doesn't quite appreciate his relevance, an older Bond having to get back into shape before returning to duty, etc.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Count me in with the NSNA appreciation. Not my favourite, but I prefer it to a lot of others. Somewhere between 15 and 20 in my rankings I think.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,716
    NSNA is good, I agree!

    Here's another potentially controversial opinion: the instrumental version of DAD is lovely. I don't know what's with the stereo panning in this video but have a listen:

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,021
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,103
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    I agree with you 100%.
  • Posts: 7,500
    A J. W. Pepper movie?? Seriously?? :))
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,021
    J/k= just kidding
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 7,500
    J/k= just kidding

    Ah, I missed that ;))

    Personally I'd like a Mrs Bell spinoff
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited June 2021 Posts: 6,778
    Personally I would go for

    Klaus Hergesheimer in:

    G SECTION



    Kidding of course, no spin-offs please. Just Bond films would do fine for me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,527
    I'm usually the fanboy who enjoys a good spinoff, sidequel, "spiritual" sequel, ...

    ... but as far as the Bonds go, I say no. A good Bond film every few years is all I crave. I don't think any other character in the books or movies can carry an entire movie in isolation. I'm afraid that whatever "myth" gets thrown in the mix to fill up all the blanks--and there would be many--would feel "off" from the Bonds.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    Realistically, they could make the unadapted Fleming stories into a series or even go as far as adapting elements from the Gardner novels. There's alot to work with throughout the history.

    Risico
    Octopussy(showing the actual story of Smythe)
    From a View to a Kill
    Hildebrand Rarity
    For Special Services (Bond on Bismarques Ranch made for a decent thriller)

    Would I like to see it, not particularly since they have done a decent enough job taking elements from the Fleming short stories and weaving them into a Bond film
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 14,816
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    Even without multiple spinoff movies and TV series, your model is still a light version of the Marvel, DC and Star Wars model. A model that can only work in an open universe with vast amount of source material to work on. That's why I used the Arthurian Legend as an example of how it can be used successfully. You need a preexisting source where such model is already in use.

    Now so far you gave us a list and an hypothetical timetable, but no plan whatsoever. It's the how and the what questions that needs to be answered, not the when. What, for instance, would bring a Felix Leiter spinoff series, how would it work, how would you make it fresh and original and yet linked to Bond? How would you reintroduce and maintain a Bond film every two years keeping it fresh and original after decades of Bond movies AND now a spinoff series? How do you avoid saturation? How to you keep the creative team on the ball? What about the tropes of Bond movies: the larger than life villain, the evil plot, the Bond girls, the exotic locations? Do we keep them in that Leiter movie? Then it's a pale copy with Leiter instead of Bond. If they are taken off, then it's a watered down Bond movie.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,527
    showing the actual story of Smythe

    Do we want that, though?
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    showing the actual story of Smythe

    Do we want that, though?

    It's definitely not necessary, but if they were to ever go that route, it would be nice to see certain elements presented. However, Spectre did something similar with White's suicide
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2021 Posts: 8,021
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    Even without multiple spinoff movies and TV series, your model is still a light version of the Marvel, DC and Star Wars model. A model that can only work in an open universe with vast amount of source material to work on. That's why I used the Arthurian Legend as an example of how it can be used successfully. You need a preexisting source where such model is already in use.

    I’m not chasing Marvel/DC/Star Wars, I’m just making Bond films with a few potential spin-offs here and there. Luckily there’s plenty of source material for Bond, they’re called continuation novels.
    Now so far you gave us a list and an hypothetical timetable, but no plan whatsoever. It's the how and the what questions that needs to be answered, not the when. What, for instance, would bring a Felix Leiter spinoff series, how would it work, how would you make it fresh and original and yet linked to Bond?

    The only link would be the actor playing Leiter, as for the rest I leave that up to the writers.
    How would you reintroduce and maintain a Bond film every two years keeping it fresh and original after decades of Bond movies AND now a spinoff series?

    I hire writers with winning pitches, before snorting some blow.
    How do you avoid saturation?

    You mean “over-saturatation” right? I only make Bond films every other year, in between those being spin-offs/one-offs. They don’t need to connect, as I’m not chasing Marvel’s interconnecting story structure.
    How to you keep the creative team on the ball?

    By keeping them focused on their own projects. I already said crossover material isn’t necessary.
    What about the tropes of Bond movies: the larger than life villain, the evil plot, the Bond girls, the exotic locations? Do we keep them in that Leiter movie? Then it's a pale copy with Leiter instead of Bond. If they are taken off, then it's a watered down Bond movie.

    Easy, I work to establish Leiter’s own unique iconography and tropes rather than just copy Bond’s. That’s how all successful spin-offs work.
  • Posts: 14,816
    Regarding the continuation novels, my own opinion on their quality notwithstanding and even ignoring the completely the problems of royalties, there's very little source material to work on than Marvel, DC and all. And again, that's not even debating about quality. I for one dread the possibility of a Carte Blanche adaptation.

    I meant saturation ("to a very full extent, especially beyond the point regarded as necessary or desirable") "over" is repetitive. I'm all for a Bond film every two years, if it's still possible (it's a big machine to put in motion nowadays), but comes a point when you just squeeze a lemon.

    As for leaving it to the writers and keeping them focused on their project... well, that's a bit of a cop-out isn't it? You give a writer a project only if you have some ideas of what you want to do with it and its viability. When someone at my old job was telling me "I'll leave it to you" , it meant "I can't be bothered to work on this project or do that research and see if what I'd like to do is even possible or suitable, so you'll do it and if it goes south I know who to blame." You leave it to the writer when you know what you want them to work on.

    And you still haven't explained how and why a Felix Leiter would be relevant or original in the first place. If I want to make a King Arthur franchise, I have a pretty good idea how to do it: first let's establish Arthur and his reign first. Then we can do spinoffs on some knights of the Round Table, each with their distinctive backgrounds and personalities. Lancelot? Perfect knight, loyal to Arthur but tragically and desperately in love with Gueneveer. Gawain? Beloved nephew, a flirt, well rounded and balanced, but thus limited from true greatness. Percival? Young, raw, naive, but naturally talented and fearless. That's what I'd say to my writers, that's what I'd expect them to work on. Oh and if things go well, I'll commission them a Merlin prequel.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,103
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    Even without multiple spinoff movies and TV series, your model is still a light version of the Marvel, DC and Star Wars model. A model that can only work in an open universe with vast amount of source material to work on. That's why I used the Arthurian Legend as an example of how it can be used successfully. You need a preexisting source where such model is already in use.

    Now so far you gave us a list and an hypothetical timetable, but no plan whatsoever. It's the how and the what questions that needs to be answered, not the when. What, for instance, would bring a Felix Leiter spinoff series, how would it work, how would you make it fresh and original and yet linked to Bond? How would you reintroduce and maintain a Bond film every two years keeping it fresh and original after decades of Bond movies AND now a spinoff series? How do you avoid saturation? How to you keep the creative team on the ball? What about the tropes of Bond movies: the larger than life villain, the evil plot, the Bond girls, the exotic locations? Do we keep them in that Leiter movie? Then it's a pale copy with Leiter instead of Bond. If they are taken off, then it's a watered down Bond movie.

    As for a Felix Leiter spinoff, I recommend using the Dynamite Comics storyline. It would a great starting point for a possible series. I’m somewhat surprised that Dynamite didn’t let the writer finish his trilogy.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,958
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    The issue I see with this is that the actors playing Leiter, Wai Lin, etc. have gotten a lot older. If they were going to do spinoffs, better to strike while the iron was hot right after CR or TND. (Kind of like what they were planning with Jinx.) Otherwise, you end up with a younger actor playing Leiter or Wai Lin and then, what's the point?
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited June 2021 Posts: 4,103
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just because Leiter would get his own spin-off doesn’t take away from Bond, because Bond will ALWAYS have his own set of films.
    I think spin-off films would take away from Bond even if he continued to have his own films. To some extent, we would go from "Bond films" to "films set in a universe in which Bond exists". Even if he got more films and more attention than other characters, those other characters would take the spotlight away from Bond to some degree. It is a feasible thing to do in the sense that you could, for instance, write a good script starring Felix Leiter, fleshing out the character where necessary, but I think it would diminish the Bond-starring Bond films.

    With Amazon behind MGM and EON now, it won’t surprise me if they did what Disney and Lucasfilm did with Star Wars. Build a new trilogy for a new actor, with a spinoff in between Bond led stories.

    It would be a terrible idea.

    I agree considering the gaps between Bonds anyway. NTTD followed six years later by a Moneypenny movie, then another 5 years for B26, then 4 years later a Tanner origin story and another 6 years for B27.

    No thanks. Just stick with Bond.

    And let's just say for argument's sake that you have Bond movies and spinoffs every few months or so, with TV series on top of that, just like Marvel. How can it be sustained without being repetitive? We don't have decades of original comic book content to work on. It's already tricky finding new ideas for Bond, given the limited quantity of source material and the number of years the franchise has run on. Heck, even superhero movies get repetitive!

    Simple, you DON’T try to do the Marvel approach. That never even occurred to me when discussing this idea of spin-offs.

    If I wasn’t clear in previous posts, I do not want to see multiple films set in Bond’s universe come out every year. That’s fine for comic books, but that never worked for anything else.

    If I was hired by Amazon to work out an expanded universe for the rest of this decade, my suggestion would to just do only one film at a time, one for each year.

    2023: Bond 26
    2024: Leiter
    2025: Bond 27
    2026: Wai Lin
    2027: Bond 28
    2028: J.W. Pepper (j/k)
    2029: Bond 29

    One rule I’d employ is that each film be relatively standalone. I don’t want to impose crossovers on the filmmakers but rather have them focus on making the best possible film. If there is any crossover material, it’s at best minimal and only an Easter egg for the fans. I want each film to feel unique to allow the filmmakers do what they want without having to get bogged down to what other filmmakers are planning. The weakest thing about Marvel is that it feels homogenized, and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

    Not all spin-offs may stick. If Leiter proved to be a massive hit, I’d consider making a follow up and canceling any of the other spin-offs to make room.

    Also, no TV spin-offs. I’d have to be fired before that ever happens.

    The issue I see with this is that the actors playing Leiter, Wai Lin, etc. have gotten a lot older. If they were going to do spinoffs, better to strike while the iron was hot right after CR or TND. (Kind of like what they were planning with Jinx.) Otherwise, you end up with a younger actor playing Leiter or Wai Lin and then, what's the point?

    Felix Leiter can be recast. After DC, he will be. As for a Felix Leiter spinoff, I recommend using the Dynamite Comics storyline. It would a great starting point for a possible series. I’m somewhat surprised that Dynamite didn’t let the writer finish his trilogy. As for Wai Lin, Jinx and other more popular characters, they can always be recast and reused. It’s just a treat for Bond fans, a fun fact for the causal viewer.
  • Posts: 14,816
    Was that Leiter comics so well received and popular that it would be a successful movie adaptation? And don't get me started on Jinx and Way Lin. One was written (unconvincingly) as a black female American Bond in one of the most derided Bond films, the other is basically a flavour of the month Bond girl. She works for the Communists and she's a martial artist. That's how much she can bring. And she didn't exactly leave a lasting impression.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Nobody outside of the James Bond fan community knows the names of the Bond girls in TND and DAD. They have no cultural importance whatsoever any more (if they ever has any) and any film involving their characters would face the same struggles as any of the other hundred attempts to get a female centred spy/action franchise going. The Bond connection wouldn't be enough to ensure their success.

  • Posts: 14,816
    Nobody outside of the James Bond fan community knows the names of the Bond girls in TND and DAD. They have no cultural importance whatsoever any more (if they ever has any) and any film involving their characters would face the same struggles as any of the other hundred attempts to get a female centred spy/action franchise going. The Bond connection wouldn't be enough to ensure their success.

    And I'd add that it's the same for Felix Leiter: he's a secondary character in a very popular franchise, his importance is relative to his role in a Bond film. Make a Bill Tanner spinoff and it would have just as much chance of succeeding as a Leiter or a Jinx spinoff. And for any of these spinoffs to hope for some success, they'd need to up the connection to Bond to eleven, so they can distinguish themselves from these other franchises you mentioned. Not play it down for only the Bond fans to recognise. At this point, why not make a Bond movie instead, since he's the most recognisable brand.
  • Posts: 1,556
    No one but some comic book readers know who all those Marcel and DC characters are, either. The films had s-o-m-e built-in audience but not everyone who saw those films !
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