Controversial opinions about Bond films

1650651653655656703

Comments

  • Posts: 13,978
    Oh, new controversial opinion then: AWTD is easily my favorite of the Craig era. It's my ringtone. The opening bars are my favorite 20 seconds of Bond music ever.

    Like Writing's on the Wall, I listen to the instrumental a lot. All of my problems with it disappear when you take away the lyrics and respective performances. :))

    I can totally get not liking the performances, absolutely. But I find the lyrics quite good. A very cool, rock and roll description of what it is to be Bond.

    I think everything works in the song except the singer. Have Adele sing the exact same song and you've got something very different.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,423
    Oh, new controversial opinion then: AWTD is easily my favorite of the Craig era. It's my ringtone. The opening bars are my favorite 20 seconds of Bond music ever.

    Like Writing's on the Wall, I listen to the instrumental a lot. All of my problems with it disappear when you take away the lyrics and respective performances. :))

    I can totally get not liking the performances, absolutely. But I find the lyrics quite good. A very cool, rock and roll description of what it is to be Bond.

    Yeah, maybe I'm being unfair to the lyrics as written. I've actually never heard a cover of AWTD; perhaps one that hits the mark for me in terms of performance would have me look upon it more favourably.

    You probably know Q the Music. Their version isn't a duet, it's a female vocalist doing all of it, and it's much better than the original.


    Yeah, that's definitely more like it. The song sounds great when given the big brass band treatment, too! Thanks for sharing, @ProfJoeButcher :)
  • Gav007Gav007 Norfolk
    edited June 2021 Posts: 1
    I prefer Bond on a bike than in a car. There, I said it.

    Few belting memories here: https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2021/04/james-bonds-greatest-motorcycling-moments.html

    I reckon we'll see plenty of two-wheel stuff when No Time To Die comes out too
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,351
    Gav007 wrote: »
    I prefer Bond on a bike than in a car. There, I said it.

    Few belting memories here: https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2021/04/james-bonds-greatest-motorcycling-moments.html

    I reckon we'll see plenty of two-wheel stuff when No Time To Die comes out too

    There are so many mistakes in that piece, I just stopped reading.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2021 Posts: 5,145
    I think it’s ugly and repetitive.

    “Oh great, another bullet firing in sand.”

    And brown.

    I hope Kleinman doesn't give away the plot in the NTTD titles, like he did with SP and to a lesser extent SF. I prefer the more "thematic" titles, like TSWLM and CR and even GE.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,103
    echo wrote: »
    I think it’s ugly and repetitive.

    “Oh great, another bullet firing in sand.”

    And brown.

    I hope Kleinman doesn't give away the plot in the NTTD titles, like he did with SP and to a lesser extent SF. I prefer the more "thematic" titles, like TSWLM and CR and even GE.

    That's what bothers me about the Mission impossible title sequences. They are giving away good parts of the movie in them, especially with Fallout
  • Posts: 14,552
    Controversial opinion:
    I like the title sequences to ALL the Bond films including NSNA.
    Actually, the CR spoof has a very entertaining title sequence.

    Always found it interesting Kleinman chose to use the poster art font when the actual title appears on his Bond films.
    I imagine he'll keep this tradition alive with the NTTD Love Boat font.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,676
    echo wrote: »
    I think it’s ugly and repetitive.

    “Oh great, another bullet firing in sand.”

    And brown.

    I hope Kleinman doesn't give away the plot in the NTTD titles, like he did with SP and to a lesser extent SF. I prefer the more "thematic" titles, like TSWLM and CR and even GE.

    That's what bothers me about the Mission impossible title sequences. They are giving away good parts of the movie in them, especially with Fallout

    Mission: Impossible had done that from the very beginning, with the TV show having a different intro showing bits of the episode in the opening sequence. I’ve tended to look at those bits as “trailer footage” rather than something genuinely spoilery. I think the second film is the only one to veer away from that tradition.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,423
    echo wrote: »
    I think it’s ugly and repetitive.

    “Oh great, another bullet firing in sand.”

    And brown.

    I hope Kleinman doesn't give away the plot in the NTTD titles, like he did with SP and to a lesser extent SF. I prefer the more "thematic" titles, like TSWLM and CR and even GE.

    That's what bothers me about the Mission impossible title sequences. They are giving away good parts of the movie in them, especially with Fallout

    Mission: Impossible had done that from the very beginning, with the TV show having a different intro showing bits of the episode in the opening sequence. I’ve tended to look at those bits as “trailer footage” rather than something genuinely spoilery. I think the second film is the only one to veer away from that tradition.

    The third film also abandons that style and sticks simply with a burning fuse.
  • Posts: 13,978
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.
  • Posts: 7,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 16,086
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    I'd imagine it would have to be to hold the interest of the average cinemagoer nowadays. The world of international travel to exotic locations has become a lot less exclusive since the days of 1962.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 13,978
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    I'd imagine it would have to be to hold the interest of the average cinemagoer nowadays. The world of international travel to exotic locations has become a lot less exclusive since the days of 1962.

    Yes, but that is an issue wherever Bond goes nowadays. Exoticism is now almost banal, everywhere is far more accessible than it used to be. There are ways to alleviate this I think: focus on smaller and/or peripheral places rather than capital cities and metropoles. In France, go to Saint-Malo or Avignon instead of Paris for instance. To be fair, the Craig era has made big efforts to go to unusual places, at least when the franchise was concerned, but it would be nice to have a movie focusing to one specific place, say Innsbruck in Austria and its surroundings, the North of Italy, Cyprus or the Greek Islands, etc.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 16,086
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)
  • Posts: 13,978
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)

    Never been to Kent, but obviously Bond being from MI6 we need a very good reason to have him active anywhere in the UK.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 16,086
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)

    Never been to Kent, but obviously Bond being from MI6 we need a very good reason to have him active anywhere in the UK.

    Blowing up the UK capital city with a nuclear rocket might be just such an occasion. I think Fleming deals with the issue of Bond being on MI5/Special Branch territory by remaining in Britain in the Moonraker novel if I remember correctly.
  • Posts: 13,978
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)

    Never been to Kent, but obviously Bond being from MI6 we need a very good reason to have him active anywhere in the UK.

    Blowing up the UK capital city with a nuclear rocket might be just such an occasion. I think Fleming deals with the issue of Bond being on MI5/Special Branch territory by remaining in Britain in the Moonraker novel if I remember correctly.

    Yes he does and MR could be the inspiration (again!) for such film. I guess any Bond movie when most of the screentime is in one location will be a hard sell from early states of development, but it has its advantages: it would probably save money, it's easier to set up an atmosphere, you can exploit the locations to their full potential, etc.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,907
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)

    Never been to Kent, but obviously Bond being from MI6 we need a very good reason to have him active anywhere in the UK.

    Blowing up the UK capital city with a nuclear rocket might be just such an occasion. I think Fleming deals with the issue of Bond being on MI5/Special Branch territory by remaining in Britain in the Moonraker novel if I remember correctly.

    Yes he does and MR could be the inspiration (again!) for such film. I guess any Bond movie when most of the screentime is in one location will be a hard sell from early states of development, but it has its advantages: it would probably save money, it's easier to set up an atmosphere, you can exploit the locations to their full potential, etc.

    Maybe a starting point for a James Bond TV series for Amazon? I think a TV show Bond should be considered.
  • Posts: 13,978
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond movie set almost exclusively in one location, like DN.

    Providing it's an interesting location...

    Well obviously, that goes without saying. I wouldn't want a Bond movie set in Reading, Berkshire.

    How about a Bond film set in Kent if a threw a certain nuclear defence missile into the mix? ;)

    Never been to Kent, but obviously Bond being from MI6 we need a very good reason to have him active anywhere in the UK.

    Blowing up the UK capital city with a nuclear rocket might be just such an occasion. I think Fleming deals with the issue of Bond being on MI5/Special Branch territory by remaining in Britain in the Moonraker novel if I remember correctly.

    Yes he does and MR could be the inspiration (again!) for such film. I guess any Bond movie when most of the screentime is in one location will be a hard sell from early states of development, but it has its advantages: it would probably save money, it's easier to set up an atmosphere, you can exploit the locations to their full potential, etc.

    Maybe a starting point for a James Bond TV series for Amazon? I think a TV show Bond should be considered.

    Don't see it working, personally.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2021 Posts: 5,164
    I don't think we'll ever get two simultaneous Bonds, besides the video game one. Also, a TV show for him doesn't make sense when the whole franchise is about him - which is also the main reason I don't think a TV show can work in general?

    Not only would they have to have it in some way relate it to James Bond, without just being a shorter more serialised version of the films, because what's the point? They also have to avoid creating just another random spy story that bears no relation to James Bond cause again what's the point?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2021 Posts: 5,145
    I think Barbara Broccoli is on record opposing a TV version of Bond. Unless she sells, which I don't see happening (ultimately, she/MGW hold the important cards--how Bondian), we won't see a TV Bond in her lifetime.

    Amazon could attempt to sweeten the pot by financing her pet film and theater projects, to entice Eon to produce more frequent Bond films.

    And yes, I know, US copyright expiration is coming, but Disney's copyrights expire before Eon's and watch how their lawyers fight...Eon just has to sit back and reap the same copyright extension benefits.

    Her half is worth at least $400M:

    https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/producers/barbara-broccoli-net-worth/

    Assuming a minority discount because she shares control with her brother, it's easily $500M, which makes Bond worth at least $1B.

    I don't know if anyone on this forum has tried to quantify the worth of the Bond rights but it's interesting to me.

    She's in quite an enviable position, thanks to the deal Cubby and Harry cut all those decades ago.
  • Posts: 631
    echo wrote: »
    And yes, I know, US copyright expiration is coming, but Disney's copyrights expire before Eon's and watch how their lawyers fight...Eon just has to sit back and reap the same copyright extension benefits.

    Lawyers gotta do what lawyers gotta do but that doesn’t mean they will win, and at the end of the day the law is very clear. The law says that copyright expires.

    Eon’s case for extending the copyright, if they tried to do so, would be very weak. Their case would by necessity have to be based on the argument that they need to protect their financial investment.

    But that’s weak, because (1) they’ve already massively recouped their investment since 1962 anyway so I don’t think any judge is going to have much sympathy for an extension and (2) they have done sweet bugger all with half of the property anyway.

    It’s not simply copyright in JB that expires, it’s copyright in other Fleming-created characters too, like Dr No, Rosa Klebb, Tiffany Case and so on. Eon have done nothing with these characters since the original films so that also undermines their case that they alone should retain the right to those characters.

    I agree that low budget companies might not risk a legal fight. But big corporations might be up for a fight, because their lawyers will be just as good as Eon/Amazon’s lawyers, and they understand copyright law very well.

    Also, what few people have yet grasped is that while copyright in JB will expire copyright in Blofeld won’t because he was partly created by McClory, and McClory did not die until a few years ago.

    So copyright in Blofeld, Spectre, the Thunderball plot etc will safely remain Eon’s until the late 21st century.

    This means that there’s no real need for Eon to fight for the copyright in JB anyway.

    Other people can make shows or films about JB if they want but only Eon can legally make films where he’s up against Spectre. So an “official” series can still continue.

    Completely agree with the rest of your post

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited June 2021 Posts: 2,243
    But any potential adaptation would have to adhere strictly to the book version of Bond lore right? Anything that is part of the film series and not the books can't be used? This is where I imagine things will get tricky with copyright. Even looking only James Bond himself, there is overlap between the book Bond and official screen Bond.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,145
    The copyright extension act is known, derisively, as the Mickey Mouse Extension Act.

    The last thing Disney wants is for Mickey to pass into the public domain. And Mickey's older than CR.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,351
    echo wrote: »
    And Mickey's older than CR.

    That doesn t matter. What matters is when the creator passed away.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 16,086
    echo wrote: »
    And Mickey's older than CR.

    That doesn t matter. What matters is when the creator passed away.

    Unfortunately in our case not that long after he first created the character and world that he did.
  • Posts: 631
    w2bond wrote: »
    But any potential adaptation would have to adhere strictly to the book version of Bond lore right? Anything that is part of the film series and not the books can't be used? This is where I imagine things will get tricky with copyright. Even looking only James Bond himself, there is overlap between the book Bond and official screen Bond.

    Yes, it is Fleming’s work alone that will drop out of copyright.

    So, the character of Hugo Drax will be free for anyone to use, but not the character of Karl Stromberg, because Stromberg was created by Eon.

    But you are 100% correct about the overlap. There will be areas of greyness and I expect the lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee in expectation of trousering fat legal fees.

    Let’s take Drax as an example. When he drops out of copyright (around 2035 so we’ve got a few years yet) then anyone can use him. But Eon’s Drax is different from Fleming’s Drax. If you’re making a film with Drax in it and your Drax is a gent who moved a chateau to California and who’s building space shuttles, well you’ll be getting a cease-and-desist letter from Eon’s lawyers because that’s not Fleming’s Drax. That’s their Drax.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,243
    But not only that right, I imagine they can't be physically similar to the movie versions, and many of the most popular Bond tropes will be out of the question for anyone attempting a new series, the Bond theme for starters.

    The closest example I can think of is Sherlock but even that's different because the Bond book and film rights are so intertwined
  • Posts: 631
    Yes you are right. This is why I don’t think Eon really needs to worry about the copyright expiration issue at all.

    Other people will be able to use the character of JB, but they won’t be able to use many of the tropes or aesthetics associated with him.

    Your example of Sherlock is excellent because it proves the point. Sherlock Holmes as a character is out of copyright. Anyone can use him. However, once you start adding things or tweaking the character, then those additions and tweaks are your copyright, and you can sue anyone who copies them.

    That is why there is so much clear blue water between the various incarnations of Sherlock Holmes at the moment. No one wants to step legally on the toes of the others. So Benedict Cumberbatch’s version in Sherlock is very different from Robert Downey Jr’s version, which in turn is very different from Ian McKellen’s old-man version in Mr Holmes, which in turn is very different from Will Ferrell’s unfunny comedic version etc. They take great care to put their own spin on the character.


  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,543
    Well, Casino Royale (the 2006 one) contains virtually none of the standard EON Bond tropes, save a snippet of Bond theme and a title sequence, and it was a commercial and critical success. With nothing more than the name "James Bond", a rival producer can pretty much do a Casino Royale.
Sign In or Register to comment.