Indiana Jones 5 (29th July 2022)

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Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,416
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Raiders is perfection.
    Nope. It's a terrific, classic film, but it's not perfection.

    - Clearly visible reflection of snake on pane of glass in front of Ford
    - Convoy chase makes no sense (Nazis simply stop the convoy; officer & a couple of troops dismount and riddle the helpless Indy with bullets)

    He's already in the cab before they know he's there.
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    - U-boat does not do what it absolutely WOULD do: submerging before approaching the SECRET base (thus Indy drowns)

    U-boats only submerged when they were attacking- there would be no reason to submerge approaching the base as no-one is around. The idea was Indy lashed himself to the periscope anyway (and this is shown briefly in the film) so would have survived.

    The main problem with Raiders is that Indy's knowledge not to look in the Ark is never established beforehand and is a bit of a cheat.

    But apart from that, it is perfection.

    I think people generally consider the main problem with Raiders to be the fact that Indy doesn't need to be in it. If you took him out, the Nazis would still find the ark, open it, and die. But no film is completely perfect. It's still an absolutely amazing film, one of my all-time favorites.

    Would they have found it? They were digging in the wrong spot.

    Yes, the Nazis only found it because of Indy.
  • edited April 22 Posts: 1,562
    mtm wrote: »
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Raiders is perfection.
    Nope. It's a terrific, classic film, but it's not perfection.

    - Clearly visible reflection of snake on pane of glass in front of Ford
    - Convoy chase makes no sense (Nazis simply stop the convoy; officer & a couple of troops dismount and riddle the helpless Indy with bullets)

    He's already in the cab before they know he's there.
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    - U-boat does not do what it absolutely WOULD do: submerging before approaching the SECRET base (thus Indy drowns)

    U-boats only submerged when they were attacking- there would be no reason to submerge approaching the base as no-one is around. The idea was Indy lashed himself to the periscope anyway (and this is shown briefly in the film) so would have survived.

    The main problem with Raiders is that Indy's knowledge not to look in the Ark is never established beforehand and is a bit of a cheat.

    But apart from that, it is perfection.

    I think people generally consider the main problem with Raiders to be the fact that Indy doesn't need to be in it. If you took him out, the Nazis would still find the ark, open it, and die. But no film is completely perfect. It's still an absolutely amazing film, one of my all-time favorites.

    And if that's the big complaint people had to stretch and contort themselves to come to, well, that's their problem. It's the ride Indy took you on, so I'm more comfortable with the perfection claim.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Eve Stavro Blofeld
    Posts: 4,314
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Raiders is perfection.
    Nope. It's a terrific, classic film, but it's not perfection.

    - Clearly visible reflection of snake on pane of glass in front of Ford
    - Convoy chase makes no sense (Nazis simply stop the convoy; officer & a couple of troops dismount and riddle the helpless Indy with bullets)

    He's already in the cab before they know he's there.
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    - U-boat does not do what it absolutely WOULD do: submerging before approaching the SECRET base (thus Indy drowns)

    U-boats only submerged when they were attacking- there would be no reason to submerge approaching the base as no-one is around. The idea was Indy lashed himself to the periscope anyway (and this is shown briefly in the film) so would have survived.

    The main problem with Raiders is that Indy's knowledge not to look in the Ark is never established beforehand and is a bit of a cheat.

    But apart from that, it is perfection.

    I think people generally consider the main problem with Raiders to be the fact that Indy doesn't need to be in it. If you took him out, the Nazis would still find the ark, open it, and die. But no film is completely perfect. It's still an absolutely amazing film, one of my all-time favorites.

    Would they have found it? They were digging in the wrong spot.
    If I'm not misremembering, if Jones hadn't intervened in Nepal, the Nazis would have obtained the medallion (both sides of it!) and they would have known the right spot where to dig.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,416
    Damn, @mattjoes! You're right!

    Guess I'm rewatching Raiders tonight!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 22 Posts: 7,703
    mtm wrote: »
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Raiders is perfection.
    Nope. It's a terrific, classic film, but it's not perfection.

    - Clearly visible reflection of snake on pane of glass in front of Ford
    - Convoy chase makes no sense (Nazis simply stop the convoy; officer & a couple of troops dismount and riddle the helpless Indy with bullets)

    He's already in the cab before they know he's there.
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    - U-boat does not do what it absolutely WOULD do: submerging before approaching the SECRET base (thus Indy drowns)

    U-boats only submerged when they were attacking- there would be no reason to submerge approaching the base as no-one is around. The idea was Indy lashed himself to the periscope anyway (and this is shown briefly in the film) so would have survived.

    The main problem with Raiders is that Indy's knowledge not to look in the Ark is never established beforehand and is a bit of a cheat.

    But apart from that, it is perfection.

    I think people generally consider the main problem with Raiders to be the fact that Indy doesn't need to be in it. If you took him out, the Nazis would still find the ark, open it, and die. But no film is completely perfect. It's still an absolutely amazing film, one of my all-time favorites.

    @PDJamesBond Indy blows up the plane which would have taken the Ark to Berlin. They would have opened it there and perhaps those present have been killed, but without his intervention it would still have been in Nazi hands after that (where they doubtless would have experimented on it until they could use it as a weapon; also Indy was clearly not the only person who knew about the properties of the Ark- someone else would know the 'don't look at it' rule). He and Marion recover it from the island and give it to the Americans.

    Also the idea of taking it via by truck was probably to put it on another plane at a different airfield (Indy destroys the fuel dump at the Tanis airfield which may have made it useless in the short term for another plane to travel to) or on a ship to sail to Germany. Indy foils that plan too and they end up having to use a U Boat to take it, which then returns back to its pen rather than being able to take it to Germany.
    If you took Indy out of the film, 'the armies of darkness would march all over the face of the Earth' :)

    Bond in Goldfinger on the other hand... ;)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,967
    I’m getting great vibes from this production;
    I’m looking forward to seeing how Mangold treats the character.

    I can see a scenario where Indy hasn’t been in the field for some time; something significant compels him to set out on a quest. Preparing, with equal parts apprehension and excitement he approaches a chest in the corner of his dimly lit study. As he had done so many times , in so many far away lands ,he brushes off a thin layer of dust then lifts the lid ; reaching in he slowly pulls out a well worn fedora...

    We’ll see.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 729
    Mangold and Milkkelsen give this thing real cred. As for PWB, who knows...of course,Crystal Skull had a great cast on paper. I’m anxious to see if a young male is cast because that’s what I don’t want. I want Ford to remain front and center regardless of his age.no lame crutches, no endless references to his age, no relentless callbacks, just tell a great story with him as the lead... if he can’t run like he use to so what, he can still drive, ride vehicles for action... and Ford still looks like he can fight to a certain extent so it’s still doable... plus the supernatural element of these movies always creates intrigue that works for wide audience
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited April 22 Posts: 2,004
    I had a dream last night about this movie. Karen Allen came back, there were a lot of water scenes, and Harrison Ford was de-aged. Not much more that I remember. If it had (or has) to deal with Nazis, I wouldn’t be surprised if Christoph Waltz was cast.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,703
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Mangold and Milkkelsen give this thing real cred. As for PWB, who knows...of course,Crystal Skull had a great cast on paper. I’m anxious to see if a young male is cast because that’s what I don’t want. I want Ford to remain front and center regardless of his age.no lame crutches, no endless references to his age, no relentless callbacks, just tell a great story with him as the lead... if he can’t run like he use to so what, he can still drive, ride vehicles for action... and Ford still looks like he can fight to a certain extent so it’s still doable... plus the supernatural element of these movies always creates intrigue that works for wide audience

    I'm sure Spielberg said words to effect (when he was still directing it!) that as long as Ford can ride a horse then he's still Indy :)
  • AWMAWM
    Posts: 102
    [/quote]
    If I'm not misremembering, if Jones hadn't intervened in Nepal, the Nazis would have obtained the medallion (both sides of it!) and they would have known the right spot where to dig.[/quote]

    The Nazis only go to Nepal because they follow Indy.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,416
    More excellent news. A very underrated actor.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 22 Posts: 7,703
    AWM wrote: »
    The Nazis only go to Nepal because they follow Indy.

    They're already after Abner Ravenwood though as they know he had the medallion.
  • I want Nazi's in this somehow. Most hated bad guys in history.
  • edited April 23 Posts: 331
    I want Nazi's in this somehow. Most hated bad guys in history.
    Wouldn't be that difficult as many Nazis escaped punishment after the war, either by having evidence of their crimes expunged by the US/UK or fleeing to South America.

    Though admittedly, that would be an uncharacteristically overtly political and depressing route for these films to go down.

    I'm guessing if they do bring up Nazis, it'll be through the Mikkelsen and Kretschmann characters, though that's just guesswork.

    The rumoured 1960s New York setting is what really intrigues me as I have a secret fondness for all the Indiana Jones action sequences that take place in urban environments.
  • I want Nazi's in this somehow. Most hated bad guys in history.
    Wouldn't be that difficult as many Nazis escaped punishment after the war, either by having evidence of their crimes expunged by the US/UK or fleeing to South America.

    Though admittedly, that would be an uncharacteristically overtly political and depressing route for these films to go down.

    I'm guessing if they do bring up Nazis, it'll be through the Mikkelsen and Kretschmann characters, though that's just guesswork.

    The rumoured 1960s New York setting is what really intrigues me as I have a secret fondness for all the Indiana Jones action sequences that take place in urban environments.

    As long as there are no aliens!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Eve Stavro Blofeld
    Posts: 4,314
    More excellent news. A very underrated actor.
    I'm loving these casting choices!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,703
    Personally I don't want Nazis as I'd like it to go somewhere else: I'd also be a little surprised if Spielberg let them do that as I think he's changed his stance on trivialising them.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited April 23 Posts: 4,422
    So we should be in 1977...
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,967
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,422
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
    Oh my bad, I must've missed where it stated the 60s.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,416
    Denbigh wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
    Oh my bad, I must've missed where it stated the 60s.

    Well, we haven't actually had any confirmation yet. The 60s just seems to suit Jones more, for some reason.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,967
    Denbigh wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
    Oh my bad, I must've missed where it stated the 60s.

    Well, we haven't actually had any confirmation yet. The 60s just seems to suit Jones more, for some reason.

    Someone connected with the film has mentioned 1960’s New York.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,609
    I guess it's fair to assume the baddies that Jones will be up against this time, given Kretschmann's casting.
  • AWMAWM
    Posts: 102

    mtm wrote: »
    AWM wrote: »
    The Nazis only go to Nepal because they follow Indy.

    They're already after Abner Ravenwood though as they know he had the medallion.

    If they knew where Marion was why didn't they just go and see her? Why follow Indy on the plane and then wait until he's been to see Marion before going in themselves?
  • edited April 23 Posts: 12,319
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I thought of another angle the new story could take if set in the early '60s and still involve Nazis: If Indy somehow got caught up in the hunt for rogue Nazis who escaped when the war was lost. Given many went to South America, it could also involve a jungle and ancient cultures, although that wouldn't exactly be a fresh setting.

    I think this is very likely. It was the original idea for the fourth film iirc, and after the kicking that film got from fans, I reckon they might play it safe and go with the Nazis again. Particularly since it’s meant to be the last one. They are his arch enemies after all.

    And if a lot of the film is set in New York, that could be a pretty fresh change of pace. I know we’ve seen him in more cities before, but my first thought whenever I think of Indy is deserts and jungles. Most of the film being set in a more urban environment would give it a new flavour at least.

    And the 60s might be just about retro enough to work to be fair. I assumed it’d be set in the 70s, which I thought felt too modern and morally murky. The 60s might be just about retro enough to work though, and we might get a bit of fun Bond/spy craze influence in there. I’m cautiously optimistic.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 7,703
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
    Oh my bad, I must've missed where it stated the 60s.

    Well, we haven't actually had any confirmation yet. The 60s just seems to suit Jones more, for some reason.

    Someone connected with the film has mentioned 1960’s New York.

    Yes, the writer/director said that 'all of the movies he's working on at the moment' were set there, which makes it seem fairly likely :)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,416
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So we should be in 1977...
    If based on Ford’s actual age; it doesn’t appear that it will be. If it takes place in the 60’s, mild de-aging is likely.
    Oh my bad, I must've missed where it stated the 60s.

    Well, we haven't actually had any confirmation yet. The 60s just seems to suit Jones more, for some reason.

    Someone connected with the film has mentioned 1960’s New York.

    Ah very good. Thank you! :)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,422
    I won't be surprised if they try to create a balance of villains like they did in The Last Crusade to keep it from just being one political faction or nationality.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,004
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I won't be surprised if they try to create a balance of villains like they did in The Last Crusade to keep it from just being one political faction or nationality.

    One German, one Russian, seems fair.
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