No Time to Die production thread

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  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    mtm wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What's the problem with moving the date back? It doesn't harm anyone, I don't think we need to call it dumb.

    It is dumb. Because they are targeting an unrealistic theatrical only release which won't happen anytime soon. So they won't earn anything from the countless delays. Whereas if they were to release it in April simultaneously with cinemas and digital download/on demand etc just like WW84, they would still be earning something for the movie rather than not earning anything at all from the countless delays, pushing it back hoping to earn big through cinemas which won't be opening anytime soon.

    I would say that taking a small amount now when you can take a larger amount later would be pretty dumb.

    It's their money, it's not ours: we don't get to decide what they do with it. They also have more information than we do and have a better idea of what they need to do, and what they need to get.

    A larger amount later would be a long long wait. And the longer it is for Bond fans to go see the movie. Maybe you are one of a few that isn't excited about seeing the movie. But many fans out there I'm sure are increasingly frustrated by the delay. Myself included clearly. Just release it. Most of us don't care where we see it whether it be on the tv, laptop, mobile or the cinemas, just as long as we get to see it. To continue delaying would just be ridiculous if they don't want to go digital. God forbid they delay it again and push it to 2022 or 2023. Because if they still insist on a big theatrical release, then we are a long ways away to that and it will just be delayed again and again and again.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited January 2021 Posts: 10,586
    The logic of "better to earn something now" is a very transparent veil to cover individual frustration at not being able to see the film. We get it. You want to see it. There's nothing wrong with that, but the faux-economic tangles people are tying themselves up in and labelling as "solutions" are equally as frustrating to read.

    Unless WW '84 magically makes a lot more money in the next few weeks, the tandem cinema and VOD/streaming release hasn't proven successful in any way yet.
    As someone who considers NTTD as one of their most anticipated films of all time, I have to agree with this. Most of us don’t work in the film industry and, while we can speculate all we want, we cannot claim to be experts. Since the film moved to April 2020 there has been no feasible date to release it. Most theatres around the world were shut down during April and November. April 21’ just might be possible but theatres will likely still be empty by then. It’s completely understandable that all parties want the film to make as much money as possible. No streaming service is willing to pay anything north of 200 mil for it, so that was never an option unless they are prepared for a lacklustre audience response. You don’t invest millions into IMAX cameras just for people to see the film on their laptops. For films like these, the theatrical experience has far more merit than people realize and I am perfectly willing to wait to see the film the way it was intended to be seen. The fact that they are willing to hold out obviously signifies creative confidence in their product, unlike WW84 or Mulan.

    That said, I agree that this is also a proper time for some preliminary work on B26. I don’t think EON likes to fast track but hopefully there is at least some creative brainstorming happening.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited January 2021 Posts: 8,009
    jake24 wrote: »
    The logic of "better to earn something now" is a very transparent veil to cover individual frustration at not being able to see the film. We get it. You want to see it. There's nothing wrong with that, but the faux-economic tangles people are tying themselves up in and labelling as "solutions" are equally as frustrating to read.

    Unless WW '84 magically makes a lot more money in the next few weeks, the tandem cinema and VOD/streaming release hasn't proven successful in any way yet.
    As someone who considers NTTD as one of their most anticipated films of all time, I have to agree with this. Most of us don’t work in the film industry and, while we can speculate all we want, we cannot claim to be experts. Since the film moved to April 2020 there has been no feasible date to release it. Most theatres around the world were shut down during April and November. April 21’ just might be possible but theatres will likely still be empty by then. It’s completely understandable that all parties want the film to make as much money as possible. No streaming service is willing to pay anything north of 200 mil for it, so that was never an option unless they are prepared for a lacklustre audience response. You don’t invest millions into IMAX cameras just for people to see the film on their laptops. For films like these, the theatrical experience has far more merit than people realize and I am perfectly willing to wait to see the film the way it was intended to be seen. The fact that they are willing to hold out obviously signifies creative confidence in their product, unlike WW84 or Mulan.

    Spot on, @jake24

    On one hand, I'm still as excited as I have ever been for NTTD and I would watch it today if I could. On the other hand, well.....pretty much everything you just said.
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Maybe you are one of a few that isn't excited about seeing the movie. But many fans out there I'm sure are increasingly frustrated by the delay.

    Why do people insist on saying daft stuff like this? Why wouldn't he be excited about seeing the film?

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 14,861
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What's the problem with moving the date back? It doesn't harm anyone, I don't think we need to call it dumb.

    It is dumb. Because they are targeting an unrealistic theatrical only release which won't happen anytime soon. So they won't earn anything from the countless delays. Whereas if they were to release it in April simultaneously with cinemas and digital download/on demand etc just like WW84, they would still be earning something for the movie rather than not earning anything at all from the countless delays, pushing it back hoping to earn big through cinemas which won't be opening anytime soon.

    I would say that taking a small amount now when you can take a larger amount later would be pretty dumb.

    It's their money, it's not ours: we don't get to decide what they do with it. They also have more information than we do and have a better idea of what they need to do, and what they need to get.

    A larger amount later would be a long long wait.

    Maybe, maybe not. If they can wait then they probably should.
    imranbecks wrote: »
    And the longer it is for Bond fans to go see the movie. Maybe you are one of a few that isn't excited about seeing the movie.

    It's nothing to do with me, it's not my film or my money.
    I'm extremely keen to see it, but I know it's not up to me and I can't demand that someone sells me something when they don't want to, it's not how the world works.
    imranbecks wrote: »
    But many fans out there I'm sure are increasingly frustrated by the delay. Myself included clearly. Just release it. Most of us don't care where we see it whether it be on the tv, laptop, mobile or the cinemas, just as long as we get to see it.

    You'll live in the meantime without seeing it though, and we'll all be happy to watch it when it comes out. We're not going to stop being Bond fans because it takes a bit longer to come out. As Craig said, and as you just admitted, you're mainly saying this because you want to see it, not because it would be best for the company who owns it. And although they obviously want to please us, they're not in it for the charity.
    imranbecks wrote: »
    To continue delaying would just be ridiculous if they don't want to go digital.

    I don't see why it would be ridiculous.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 14,861
    jake24 wrote: »
    That said, I agree that this is also a proper time for some preliminary work on B26. I don’t think EON likes to fast track but hopefully there is at least some creative brainstorming happening.

    I sometimes wonder if there are kind of complicated business things that stop them from officially starting work on the next one or something. Mind you, B25 Ltd. the company that No Time To Die was produced under, was incorporated on 6th May 2015, so I guess maybe they started work on Bond 25 just before Spectre was released.

    Funnily enough the names 'B26' and 'Bond 26' are already taken :)
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,036
    @mtm It’s never been clear how that works. To the best of my knowledge EoN will shoulder any pre-production costs up to the appointment of a director, at which point the contracts kick in and MGM / the distributor reimburse those costs and then pick up the tab going forwards.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Mallory wrote: »
    @mtm It’s never been clear how that works. To the best of my knowledge EoN will shoulder any pre-production costs up to the appointment of a director, at which point the contracts kick in and MGM / the distributor reimburse those costs and then pick up the tab going forwards.

    Yeah there must be all sorts of economic issues- I would guess the next Bond film would have to actually be greenlit officially by the studio before they start spending too much cash, which is something I guess is never actually a given they can rely on every single time?

    They won't have writers who actually work for them as employees, so developing the next Bond film isn't a matter of just kicking stuff around in the office, they have to go out and employ people officially to come up with stuff. Which seems to be something they've done a lot throughout the years, I would guess as you say, with Eon shouldering that cost to start with.

    On that thought process I sort of wonder how come we hear about things like script ideas for Dalton's third Bond film etc., given Eon's propensity for reusing ideas a few years down the line, surely the writers who worked on those would still be under NDAs?
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    So unless the pandemic suddenly takes a turn for the better and cinemas start to open or if they suddenly decide to go digital, with the way things are going now, the movie will never be released.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Just looking through the companies which the directors of B25 Ltd. (including Wilson and Broccoli) are in charge of there's no sign of a company for Bond 26 being opened yet that I can see.
    One thing I see Mr Wilson is director of is the Eon Screen Writer's Workshop. It's no secret and has been around for years, but I wasn't aware of it- it seems to nurture new screenwriting talent. You never know, they might try and get a Bond writer or two from that too.

    And the G stands for Gregg. I'd never thought to find out! :)
    imranbecks wrote: »
    So unless the pandemic suddenly takes a turn for the better and cinemas start to open or if they suddenly decide to go digital, with the way things are going now, the movie will never be released.

    Well it's going to get better, yes.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,036
    mtm wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    @mtm It’s never been clear how that works. To the best of my knowledge EoN will shoulder any pre-production costs up to the appointment of a director, at which point the contracts kick in and MGM / the distributor reimburse those costs and then pick up the tab going forwards.

    Yeah there must be all sorts of economic issues- I would guess the next Bond film would have to actually be greenlit officially by the studio before they start spending too much cash, which is something I guess is never actually a given they can rely on every single time?

    They won't have writers who actually work for them as employees, so developing the next Bond film isn't a matter of just kicking stuff around in the office, they have to go out and employ people officially to come up with stuff. Which seems to be something they've done a lot throughout the years, I would guess as you say, with Eon shouldering that cost to start with.

    On that thought process I sort of wonder how come we hear about things like script ideas for Dalton's third Bond film etc., given Eon's propensity for reusing ideas a few years down the line, surely the writers who worked on those would still be under NDAs?

    I only go by this article from 2010 when Mendes was being floated as Skyfall’s director.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=8214&t=mi6&s=news

    I think development is actually further along than we think. The recently announced Project 007 video game is a prequel and I wouldnt be surprised if that leads into Bond 26, and the actor will be Bond in the game. Maybe PWB has come up with something for them?

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    @mtm It’s never been clear how that works. To the best of my knowledge EoN will shoulder any pre-production costs up to the appointment of a director, at which point the contracts kick in and MGM / the distributor reimburse those costs and then pick up the tab going forwards.

    Yeah there must be all sorts of economic issues- I would guess the next Bond film would have to actually be greenlit officially by the studio before they start spending too much cash, which is something I guess is never actually a given they can rely on every single time?

    They won't have writers who actually work for them as employees, so developing the next Bond film isn't a matter of just kicking stuff around in the office, they have to go out and employ people officially to come up with stuff. Which seems to be something they've done a lot throughout the years, I would guess as you say, with Eon shouldering that cost to start with.

    On that thought process I sort of wonder how come we hear about things like script ideas for Dalton's third Bond film etc., given Eon's propensity for reusing ideas a few years down the line, surely the writers who worked on those would still be under NDAs?

    I only go by this article from 2010 when Mendes was being floated as Skyfall’s director.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=8214&t=mi6&s=news

    Very interesting, thanks for that.
    That 'insider' quoted in the last paragraph ended up not looking too smart! :)
  • Posts: 3,275
    imranbecks wrote: »
    So unless the pandemic suddenly takes a turn for the better and cinemas start to open or if they suddenly decide to go digital, with the way things are going now, the movie will never be released.

    The movie will be released when the time is right. When that will be, who knows. Earliest date looking likely now is spring next year, and that assumes the roll out of vaccines worldwide goes well this year with no unforeseen problems.

    The whole planet needs to be on an even keel before this film can get safely released in the knowledge that it will hit packed cinemas everywhere, and just not in a few select cinemas in a few select countries. The financial backers and EON need their money, and in a recession to end all recessions looming on the horizon, they will need it more than ever.
  • Posts: 3,275
    mtm wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    What's the problem with moving the date back? It doesn't harm anyone, I don't think we need to call it dumb.

    It is dumb. Because they are targeting an unrealistic theatrical only release which won't happen anytime soon. So they won't earn anything from the countless delays. Whereas if they were to release it in April simultaneously with cinemas and digital download/on demand etc just like WW84, they would still be earning something for the movie rather than not earning anything at all from the countless delays, pushing it back hoping to earn big through cinemas which won't be opening anytime soon.

    I would say that taking a small amount now when you can take a larger amount later would be pretty dumb.

    It's their money, it's not ours: we don't get to decide what they do with it. They also have more information than we do and have a better idea of what they need to do, and what they need to get.

    Last year during the early stages of the pandemic, before lockdowns happened and the seriousness of this virus was not fully realised, when EON originally announced NTTD would be pushed back, people thought the producers had lost their minds. They were obviously informed way ahead of the rest of us what was coming down the road.

    Since then they've been one step ahead every time.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,494
    Not to be overly analytical, but the last two times NTTD was delayed, Swatch was just about to release it's latest 007 watches.

    The 007 Store has just relisted the five Bond Swatches for sale, after previously being sold out.

    Interestingly, it has also just added a Corgi model of the Triumph Scrambler available for pre-order, with a November 2021 release date.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Licensees will have invested their money in these products and a company like Corgi especially, which I imagine isn't hugely cash-rich, need to get a return.

    It's not a perfect situation, no-one is happy, but I think us fans need to remember that we're the only ones who don't stand to lose our actual money on this before we start griping about what anyone else should do.
  • There is a huge number of ifs-and-buts for any release scenario (Covid, gov't regulation, cinema availability, sponsor deals, MGM growing debt, etc.), but for a cinema-only release they'll need as many of the key exhibitor markets (US/Canada, UK, Western Europe, China/Korea/Japan) to be safe and open and estimated to break at least a certain minimum revenue threshold ($500-600m?). Whether that'll be this summer, fall, Christmas season, or spring 2022 - who the heck knows? Which is why I think there's no shame in Universal/MGM moving the release date on an incremental basis. Dozens of big-ticket films are in the same boat.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Completely unfounded idea: Could it be that they only do comparatively shirt delays because that allows them to project the movies earnings for a certain point? With MGM possibly being in talks to be sold there might be some weird Hollywood accounting where saying the movie will come out in April even though we know they don't know when it will come out, let's them make their books look a bit better?

    As for Project 007. I expect there to be no direct connection to Bond 26.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,018
    I have a question: Scene 155, going by the clapperboard, with Craig, Fiennes, Kinnear meeting in Hammersmith, chatting away. What's that in terms of minutes into the movie?
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Contraband wrote: »
    I have a question: Scene 155, going by the clapperboard, with Craig, Fiennes, Kinnear meeting in Hammersmith, chatting away. What's that in terms of minutes into the movie?

    I’m curious too. I’m guessing that’s the scene directly before Bond leaves for Norway?
  • Posts: 9,737
    my question is how many pages will this go before we see the film my hope is 2022.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    edited January 2021 Posts: 3,018
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    Contraband wrote: »
    I have a question: Scene 155, going by the clapperboard, with Craig, Fiennes, Kinnear meeting in Hammersmith, chatting away. What's that in terms of minutes into the movie?

    I’m curious too. I’m guessing that’s the scene directly before Bond leaves for Norway?

    So that would be around.. what.. 2 hours 15 min into the movie? With 30 min left with the car chase, mayhem in the woods, etc
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    mtm wrote: »
    Well it's going to get better, yes.
    Well of course its gonna get better. I've heard that before ever since the movie was first delayed early last year. One year later and we are no better.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Well it's going to get better, yes.
    Well of course its gonna get better. I've heard that before ever since the movie was first delayed early last year. One year later and we are no better.

    One year does not equal forever.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    mtm wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Well it's going to get better, yes.
    Well of course its gonna get better. I've heard that before ever since the movie was first delayed early last year. One year later and we are no better.

    One year does not equal forever.

    I'll get back to you one year from now when it still wouldn't be any better.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    That still won't be forever. But yes, let's leave it for a year :)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    " ... Only Death is Forever ... " Now where have I read that ;)
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    With the way things are going, it would probably be forever before everything gets better and goes back to the way it was before. And that is if most of us would be alive by then to see it.
  • Posts: 3,275
    imranbecks wrote: »
    With the way things are going, it would probably be forever before everything gets better and goes back to the way it was before. And that is if most of us would be alive by then to see it.

    There is a strong case that the longer this drags on, we are paving the way for a new way of life, post 2020, which is very different to how life was in 2019. We could become a planet of hermits, no more socialising in big groups, face masks and social distancing becomes routine when going out, ghost town city centres with very few bars or restaurants, no cinema, etc.

    The Stallone movie Demolition Man has never looked more likely as the future.... :(
  • The conversation here is all getting a little hysterical, isn't it?

    Yes, COVID is awful in a lot of ways. This still isn't a patch on the Spanish flu, the world wars, or the great depression - to name just a few things in the last century. If the worst thing that happens to us all through this is that a Bond movie is delayed for a while . . . well, then we'll have done bloody great.

    I'm a fan, and yes - selfishly, I'd love to watch the movie tomorrow. But we know that if it streams tomorrow, everyone involved will lose hundreds of millions of dollars. Holding out hope for a traditional box office that could top 1 billion is a gamble, but not an unreasonable one given the circumstances.

    A slightly stiffer upper lip might be useful here, and a bit of perspective.
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