Spectre: Reappraised, Reassessed

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,324
    suavejmf wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    I read one of the leaked scripts too just didnt catch the nod in the final film. Makes me like the movie even more! I will add that to my list of defenses for Spectre.

    I checked again and actually can’t find references to this connection :)) must have read about it somewhere else. I think in the final film you may be able to see something alluding to this connection on one of Qs screens if you look closely but I could be mistaken there as well.

    Yup, someone posted this on Reddit a while back I believe.

    I think it is on Q's laptop while he is in the gondola. The ring is made out of or has traces Reidite - a mineral only found at meteorite crash sites - and all the baddies from the previous film all had Reidite in ther posthumous toxicology reports. Meaning they either wore a ring or where at Blofeld's lair.
    u5bkdh3w11751.jpg

    Excellent! Thanks!

    Interesting. Shame it wasn’t very clear in the actual film edit.

    Interesting and very strange that they couldn't add a throw-away line about it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 4,022
    echo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    I read one of the leaked scripts too just didnt catch the nod in the final film. Makes me like the movie even more! I will add that to my list of defenses for Spectre.

    I checked again and actually can’t find references to this connection :)) must have read about it somewhere else. I think in the final film you may be able to see something alluding to this connection on one of Qs screens if you look closely but I could be mistaken there as well.

    Yup, someone posted this on Reddit a while back I believe.

    I think it is on Q's laptop while he is in the gondola. The ring is made out of or has traces Reidite - a mineral only found at meteorite crash sites - and all the baddies from the previous film all had Reidite in ther posthumous toxicology reports. Meaning they either wore a ring or where at Blofeld's lair.
    u5bkdh3w11751.jpg

    Excellent! Thanks!

    Interesting. Shame it wasn’t very clear in the actual film edit.

    Interesting and very strange that they couldn't add a throw-away line about it.

    Would have worked as a line in from Q in the hotel room: "Strange, the toxicology of them all contain Reidite, a rare element most commonly found in... meteorite crash sites?" Maybe a quick odd look between them like, did these people come from space?

    Then when we see the meteorite in Morocco, it would have lined things up more satisfyingly.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    edited December 2020 Posts: 30,499
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,149
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Interesting. I do remember some critics saying that SP was a return to a more "traditional" Bond. I mean, Peter Travers was glowing:

    "If there is such a thing as 'James Bond’s Greatest Hits,' then Spectre is it. The 25th movie about the British MI6 agent with a license to kill is party time for Bond fans, a fierce, funny, gorgeously produced valentine to the longest-running franchise in movies."

    https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-reviews/spectre-112462/

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,119
    QOS is pretty boring to me.

    Same here, it’s the one Bond film I can’t bring myself to watch. I’ve only watched it maybe 2x in a single setting, and even then it’s pretty dreadful.

    Personally QoS got better with each subsequent viewing while SP got considerably worse. To the point with SP I can barely manage to watch the whole thing anymore. It's such an uneven mess, full of bad dialogue and bad ideas.

    My feelings exactly. Albeit I’ve always enjoyed QoS.

    What a limp wristed and disappointing Blofeld Waltz was too. As bad as Grey in drag!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.
  • echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.

    I'm struggling to think of any table scene in QoS. When they're comparing the banknotes before Bond goes off to Haiti?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 4,022
    echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.

    I'm struggling to think of any table scene in QoS. When they're comparing the banknotes before Bond goes off to Haiti?

    Yeah, or maybe the scene where Greene and Medrano are signing the papers on the table in the Perla de los Dunas?

    I think maybe the OP was talking about the board meeting scene in Spectre, and not anything in QoS?
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.

    I think Tarantino comes across as a bit “angered” (if that’s the correct term), with the Craig Era. We all know about his attempted bid to do Casino Royale, and the fact he never got that opportunity, and I think that must be the reason why. I do agree with his assessment on the best Bond actors, I have the same top 3 (Connery, Brosnan, then Moore, in that order), but I’ve always felt like Tarantino’s opinions are a bit clouded in spite.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.

    I think Tarantino comes across as a bit “angered” (if that’s the correct term), with the Craig Era. We all know about his attempted bid to do Casino Royale, and the fact he never got that opportunity, and I think that must be the reason why. I do agree with his assessment on the best Bond actors, I have the same top 3 (Connery, Brosnan, then Moore, in that order), but I’ve always felt like Tarantino’s opinions are a bit clouded in spite.

    I think he's pretty earnest about his thoughts on SF and SP. Way back in 2006 he said he couldn't bring himself to watch CR because he would be very biased given how attached he was to doing an adaptation of the novel. I dunno if he ever finally watched it all these years, but him watching Craig's later films suggest he may have gotten over that gripe.

    But like I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if he was more enthusiastic of SP simply because of his buddy Waltz being in it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,257
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    What truly boggles my mind is how many folks like SF over SP... I'd almost rather watch MR than SF... almost... ;) SP was very far from perfect (like TND), but it was highly entertaining (like YOLT).
    *Raises shields*

    You are 100% on your own on this one, lol. Mendes put everything he had into SF, whereas he fell asleep at the wheel on SP. Night and day difference between the two films from both an action-film standpoint and artistically.

    Not quite on his own! I would take SP over SF anyday. SF just didnt do it for me.
    However I would take QOS over both of them. Agree with my friend Leonardpine, gets better with every viewing!

    Yeah, QOS is still my favourite Craig Bond.
  • Tarantino's thoughts don't surprise me. On a first watch, if you're in love with the older Bond movies but you aren't as involved with them as we on this forum are, SP plays like a more overt greatest hits track (vs. SF's more organic winks).

    SF is definitely less of a Bond film in terms of template, and SP was much more consciously trying to go for something "classic" or "trope heavy." Tarantino would probably appreciate that, I'd guess. Speaking of which, I thought his newest movie was really good.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    Tarantino's thoughts don't surprise me. On a first watch, if you're in love with the older Bond movies but you aren't as involved with them as we on this forum are, SP plays like a more overt greatest hits track (vs. SF's more organic winks).

    SF is definitely less of a Bond film in terms of template, and SP was much more consciously trying to go for something "classic" or "trope heavy." Tarantino would probably appreciate that, I'd guess. Speaking of which, I thought his newest movie was really good.

    My thoughts exactly.
  • Context for my reassessment (last viewing of Spectre was in July or so) : I recently re-watched DAD and Spectre, within a day or so of one another.

    I keep getting surprised every time I return to Spectre, after increasingly longer gaps between viewings, how little I enjoy it. I didn't use to mind the movie too much, but it seems to really get worse for me every time I see it unfortunately. In fact, while I found myself rather enjoying DAD, and save for a few moments, finding really only the last 20 minutes or so unwatchable, it took me two sittings to get through Spectre. It's just become so offensive to me and quite a slog to get through.

    Apologies for the dour take, but I can only be honest. I genuinely find Spectre to be now firmly at the bottom of the barrel. I can't think of a Bond movie I'd watch Spectre instead of at the moment, but hopefully that's just because I recently watched it. I was very pleasantly surprised by DAD, however.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited December 2020 Posts: 1,180
    Kevin McClory's Spectre he wanted made so many years ago.

    EppRvoqXIAYiBdi?format=jpg&name=900x900
  • Posts: 1,545
    I'm curious how much money McClory racked up over the years trying to remount another Bond film. It seemed false starting announcements were being announced every couple years in trade publications.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited December 2020 Posts: 678
    McClory liked having his name in the news. That’s why he made those announcements more than anything.

    Anyway, I still really enjoy and vigorously defend SP. I recognize it’s problems but to me it’s overall a good entry. I’m frankly flabbergasted when people say they enjoy DAD more than SP. I can feel my IQ tumble when I watch DAD. At worst I feel slightly annoyed at parts of the latter.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,499
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.
  • McClory liked having his name in the news. That’s why he made those announcements more than anything.

    Anyway, I still really enjoy and vigorously defend SP. I recognize it’s problems but to me it’s overall a good entry. I’m frankly flabbergasted when people say they enjoy DAD more than SP. I can feel my IQ tumble when I watch DAD. At worst I feel slightly annoyed at parts of the latter.

    Its really sad when you take into account McClory was, in a way, screwed out of his legacy. I dislike his attempts to derail the franchise as much as anyone, but still, I can't help but feel somewhat bad for the guy.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Afraid I have the same opinion. I enjoy the PTS to an extent though, thought it had a great ending too.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.
  • TheBondFan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.

    Agreed. DAD is stupid, but fun. I can’t say that about SPECTRE.

    But personally I’d hate to keep bashing SPECTRE in a thread that’s about singing it’s praises; so for anyone who loves SPECTRE, good on you, I’m happy you get something out of the film!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,257
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.

    Agreed. DAD is stupid, but fun. I can’t say that about SPECTRE.

    But personally I’d hate to keep bashing SPECTRE in a thread that’s about singing it’s praises; so for anyone who loves SPECTRE, good on you, I’m happy you get something out of the film!

    To ME, DAD is stupidly exciting, whilst SP is comfortably reminiscent.
  • Posts: 3,135
    I will take SP over DAD any day of the week. SP has flaws, but DAD is an utter travesty from start to finish! (No, I dont think the first 30 min are good!)
  • Mathis1 wrote: »
    I will take SP over DAD any day of the week. SP has flaws, but DAD is an utter travesty from start to finish! (No, I dont think the first 30 min are good!)

    Ya know, sometimes it’s fun to watch Travesties unravel themselves ;)
  • TheBondFan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.

    Agreed. DAD is stupid, but fun. I can’t say that about SPECTRE.

    But personally I’d hate to keep bashing SPECTRE in a thread that’s about singing it’s praises; so for anyone who loves SPECTRE, good on you, I’m happy you get something out of the film!

    Agreed. Although isn't there an appreciation thread? I just gave my reassessment after not having seen it for a while. I thought this was the appropriate place, positive or negative.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 754
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.

    Agreed. DAD is stupid, but fun. I can’t say that about SPECTRE.

    But personally I’d hate to keep bashing SPECTRE in a thread that’s about singing it’s praises; so for anyone who loves SPECTRE, good on you, I’m happy you get something out of the film!

    Agreed. Although isn't there an appreciation thread? I just gave my reassessment after not having seen it for a while. I thought this was the appropriate place, positive or negative.

    Fair enough, I’m just talking about myself in that scenario. Please don’t be discouraged, and I apologize if you have been! I keep forgetting this isn’t “A SPECTRE Appreciation thread”, but an “SPECTRE Reassessment thread”
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,353
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I will take SP over DAD any day of the week. SP has flaws, but DAD is an utter travesty from start to finish! (No, I dont think the first 30 min are good!)

    They're both rubbish, just for different reasons
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    SP is clearly the better film.

    DAD is utterly obnoxious.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 2,091

    Its really sad when you take into account McClory was, in a way, screwed out of his legacy. I dislike his attempts to derail the franchise as much as anyone, but still, I can't help but feel somewhat bad for the guy.
    .

    The more I read about McClory, the more I dislike him. He put Fleming through the wringer when he wanted to release his TB novel (suffering a stroke during the court case I believe). Fleming was more at fault in how he dealt with the release of TB, but it felt like McClory got lucky once with his legal battle, and from then on for the rest of his life he would hang on the coat tails of Bond, pursuing legal battles wherever he could.

    Remember, McClory rejected all the Fleming novels and focused on his own script, which shows how much vision he lacked as a filmmaker. He didn't see the potential in the likes of FRWL or GF until they were released by EON, and from then on he wanted to hang on to the franchise for dear life, and have a piece of the action.

    Both TB and NSNA are not very strong scripts, and this is the only claim he had to Bond. I also think TB is the weakest of all the Bond novels, which again is quite telling of what a filmmaking genius McClory was. Fleming made the best of a crappy plot.



  • TheBondFan wrote: »
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It really is as simple as one's visceral reaction. I can argue and compare, but in the end SP leaves me flat and bored unlike any other film in the canon.

    Completely agree. Furthermore, DAD, for all its flaws, at least was a clear effort by all involved to make an exciting and great film, as misguided as it may have been. SP is so lazy in its writing, music, even setpieces, which I cannot say for DAD. Even Craig looks a bit bored in it.

    Agreed. DAD is stupid, but fun. I can’t say that about SPECTRE.

    But personally I’d hate to keep bashing SPECTRE in a thread that’s about singing it’s praises; so for anyone who loves SPECTRE, good on you, I’m happy you get something out of the film!

    Agreed. Although isn't there an appreciation thread? I just gave my reassessment after not having seen it for a while. I thought this was the appropriate place, positive or negative.

    Fair enough, I’m just talking about myself in that scenario. Please don’t be discouraged, and I apologize if you have been! I keep forgetting this isn’t “A SPECTRE Appreciation thread”, but an “SPECTRE Reassessment thread”

    Oh no worries at all. I'm not discouraged, just wanted to make sure I understood properly the purpose of the thread.
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