Never Say Never Again..."Yes, But My Martini's Still Dry"

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  • JWPepperJWPepper You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.
    Posts: 512
    mtm wrote: »
    He was in his fun young exuberant period at that point too.
    Goldsmith would've been great too.

    That would have been really great. Goldsmith is a legend and Horner is also a great composer.
    It was Connery's choice to hire Legrand. But the final score turned out really terrible. One of the weakest filmscores ever.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e il momento che verrà
    Posts: 5,712
    All great composers of course but let's not forget Legrand is a great composer too. The man has done some excellent stuff over the years. Not really sure another composer would have done so much better sans James Bond Theme.

    As much as I love Barry's 007 scores, I've always been a defender of the one-off composers. It's nice to have some wildly different music in a Bond film once in a while. In my opinion of course.
  • JWPepperJWPepper You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.
    Posts: 512
    'This is a Bond not past his prime but enjoying the last act of it.'

    THE IMITATION BULLET - Catching Connery’s comeback folly NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN...

    https://markoconnell.co.uk/the-imitation-bullet-catching-connerys-return-folly-never-say-never-again/

    Great read!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,091
    JWPepper wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He was in his fun young exuberant period at that point too.
    Goldsmith would've been great too.

    That would have been really great. Goldsmith is a legend and Horner is also a great composer.

    Well, was a great composer, sadly :(

    JWPepper wrote: »
    It was Connery's choice to hire Legrand. But the final score turned out really terrible. One of the weakest filmscores ever.

    Yeah, not a bad choice in prospect but I guess it doesn't always work out that way. Still, I like it when they take chances.
  • I like NSNA.Connery is on great form and even though some aspects of the production could have been improved ( The score,the climax ) it was a worthy ( if unofficial ) send off for Sean.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,091
    We were talking in another thread how McClory apparently tried to get Sean back again in the late 90s(!), but I was thinking how The Rock riffed on Connery's old superspy past and how it actually could have been a decent sort of last hurrah for an old Bond and how Sean could actually have done it. Instead of ex-SAS officer John Mason being locked up for years, what if it was an aged James Bond 007 who had been incarcerated in the top security HMP Shrublands in the remote wilds of Scotland all these years for unknown national security reasons? And when his fellow inmate Count Lippe escapes, Bond follows, hot on his trail...

    It was a bit silly how McClory kept trying, but y'know, I'd have watched it! :)

    6271518ecc910115c8a3735f04abd145.jpg
  • Posts: 1,693
    mtm wrote: »
    We were talking in another thread how McClory apparently tried to get Sean back again in the late 90s(!), but I was thinking how The Rock riffed on Connery's old superspy past and how it actually could have been a decent sort of last hurrah for an old Bond and how Sean could actually have done it. Instead of ex-SAS officer John Mason being locked up for years, what if it was an aged James Bond 007 who had been incarcerated in the top security HMP Shrublands in the remote wilds of Scotland all these years for unknown national security reasons? And when his fellow inmate Count Lippe escapes, Bond follows, hot on his trail...

    It was a bit silly how McClory kept trying, but y'know, I'd have watched it! :)

    6271518ecc910115c8a3735f04abd145.jpg

    Absolutely, I would've too.
  • Posts: 1,298
    'This is a Bond not past his prime but enjoying the last act of it.'

    THE IMITATION BULLET - Catching Connery’s comeback folly NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN...

    https://markoconnell.co.uk/the-imitation-bullet-catching-connerys-return-folly-never-say-never-again/

    Good review. Never heard of the ditched pre title sequence before. Would like to know more about that.

    I'm pretty sure the jousting pre-title idea, which had Bond dressed as a knight (not a good idea!), was only in an early draft and never got close to being filmed.

  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 582
    NSNA is on TV right now in the UK giving me the chance to have a lazy watch of it. It's a Bond film I rarely choose to watch on Blu-ray so I'm quite enjoying this viewing.
    It actually has some good elements to it and Connery is really good in this.
    One thing that has always stood out for me though is how cheap it looks and yet it had a similar budget to Octopussy which is sumptuous in comparison.
    The 'bomb' gag with the bouncer in the cupboard is great BTW.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,091
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.
  • Connery looks more in shape in this one than he did in DAF, but the grey wig doesn't really suit him. It ages him far more than it should (look at Connery in Time Bandits, filmed only a couple of years earlier, and he looks 10 years younger). It feels like we are watching an old man play Bond, to the point we almost feel sorry for the old age pensioner getting a battering from Pat Roach.

    The direction is not tight enough during the action scenes, and the soundtrack is truly dreadful. They could easily have used John Barry for this, as long as he didn't mind working on 2 Bond projects at the same time. I doubt EON had any control over Barry.

    The cast is very strong, which is about the only positive I can really think of. TB is still a far better film.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e il momento che verrà
    Posts: 5,712
    I really like the French Riviera segment. I think out of all the Bonds NSNA best conveys that French atmosphere.

    TB's PTS is good as well, though as it's the PTS it is obviously very short.
    MR's château is gorgeous, but they are said to be in California (which I never quite understood why).
    AVTAK's château scenes are the highlight of that film but the Paris part has some embarrassing moments ("Ma caaar!!!").

    I can't think of any other (maybe GE but that is technically Monaco). So in conclusion NSNA brings me in that French mood like no other 007 film. I think that's another reason why I like it that much.
  • Posts: 1,298
    mtm wrote: »
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.

    Actually it was about $5 million less than OP.

  • WillyGalore_ReduxWillyGalore_Redux I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaaaaaaming
    Posts: 294
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.

    Actually it was about $5 million less than OP.

    No its wasn't. It's production budget was 36 million dollars compared to 27.5 million for OP
  • Posts: 1,298
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.

    Actually it was about $5 million less than OP.

    No its wasn't. It's production budget was 36 million dollars compared to 27.5 million for OP

    Really? That's not what I heard from people who worked on NSNA and OP. The issue crew on NSNA had was that the budget was tighter than OP's budget.

  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,547
    Depends where they spent the money. Connery wouldnt have been cheap.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,091
    The direction is not tight enough during the action scenes, and the soundtrack is truly dreadful. They could easily have used John Barry for this, as long as he didn't mind working on 2 Bond projects at the same time. I doubt EON had any control over Barry.

    The cast is very strong, which is about the only positive I can really think of. TB is still a far better film.

    I feel like I read somewhere they did approach Barry but he stayed loyal to Eon. I might have imagined it! :)

    The cast is great, I think the other positive is the script which has some great dialogue and fun scenes and does improve on Thunderball in a few places. He actually has a a more solid reason to investigate Largo/Domino in this one!
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I really like the French Riviera segment. I think out of all the Bonds NSNA best conveys that French atmosphere.

    TB's PTS is good as well, though as it's the PTS it is obviously very short.
    MR's château is gorgeous, but they are said to be in California (which I never quite understood why).
    AVTAK's château scenes are the highlight of that film but the Paris part has some embarrassing moments ("Ma caaar!!!").

    I can't think of any other (maybe GE but that is technically Monaco). So in conclusion NSNA brings me in that French mood like no other 007 film. I think that's another reason why I like it that much.

    Yes that's a fair point. I like those little bits on the balcony of their villa: you can feel the late afternoon riveria sun!
  • WillyGalore_ReduxWillyGalore_Redux I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaaaaaaming
    Posts: 294
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.

    Actually it was about $5 million less than OP.

    No its wasn't. It's production budget was 36 million dollars compared to 27.5 million for OP

    Really? That's not what I heard from people who worked on NSNA and OP. The issue crew on NSNA had was that the budget was tighter than OP's budget.

    https://m.the-numbers.com/movie/Never-Say-Never-Again

    https://m.the-numbers.com/movie/Octopussy
  • Posts: 1,298
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think it was actually far more expensive than Octopussy! Which just goes to show how slick Eon had got by this point.

    Actually it was about $5 million less than OP.

    No its wasn't. It's production budget was 36 million dollars compared to 27.5 million for OP

    Really? That's not what I heard from people who worked on NSNA and OP. The issue crew on NSNA had was that the budget was tighter than OP's budget.

    https://m.the-numbers.com/movie/Never-Say-Never-Again

    https://m.the-numbers.com/movie/Octopussy

    Yes, I know that's reported, all I can say is that I worked with Alex De Grunwald, who was the PM/LP on NSNA, and I remember him clearly stating they had a tighter budget than OP, about $5million less. Now it's possible he was referring to the physical production budget, and not including the above-the-line talent costs, and we know Connery wasn't cheap, plus there were other heavy weight cast as well, so that may be the answer.

  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    edited September 2020 Posts: 1,547
    NSNA is a tough film for me to like. It his not completely without merit but the feeling is... if you’re going to do an unofficial Bond film, throw everything at it, and make it as good as possible. They thought having Connery back was enough to achieve this. It isnt.

    Still, the bits I do like...

    - The title song isnt that bad. I do like the opening melody of it.
    - It has some good lines in it - “My Martini’s still dry” etc.
    - Barbara Carrera as Fatima Blush is great and could belong in a “proper” Bond film.
    - The film acknowledges and plays a little bit with Connery being an older “00” which is novel.

    Now for the bad, sadly its a long list:

    - Douglas Slocombe’s cinematography is pretty poor. Which is odd considering his work for Spielberg is excellent and still holds up today easily.
    - Kim Basinger may look nice but she is pretty rubbish in this.
    - The fashion is awful... especially those demin dungarees that Connery wears.
    - The soundtrack (title song aside) isn’t terrible but it is a very poor fit for a Bond film. Inappropriate and undermines the action, not enhance it.
    - The climatic end fight is poor and the movie just sorta ends with Domino turning up and shooting Largo. No excitement or tension, a very poor imitation of the great end fight in Thunderball.
    - The film is just devoid of any momentum. Thunderball is always on a ticking clock and that is really emphasised in the film but it isnt here. Everything just seems to move along at a leisurely pace.

    I cant say I care much for the movie. If it is on the TV I will watch it, but its not one I would ever make an effort to put on.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2020 Posts: 9,091
    Mallory wrote: »
    NSNA is a tough film for me to like. It his not completely without merit but the feeling is... if you’re going to do an unofficial Bond film, throw everything at it, and make it as good as possible.

    I think they tried to! :) No one makes a movie intending for it to be bad.

    Mallory wrote: »
    - The film is just devoid of any momentum. Thunderball is always on a ticking clock and that is really emphasised in the film but it isnt here. Everything just seems to move along at a leisurely pace.

    Gosh I can't agree there: I find Thunderball extremely languid and actually pretty boring at times. NSNA runs out steam towards the end but it's never quite as dull as some of the sequences in TB. It doesn't have a tenth of its style, though.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 979
    cwl007 wrote: »
    NSNA is on TV right now in the UK giving me the chance to have a lazy watch of it. It's a Bond film I rarely choose to watch on Blu-ray so I'm quite enjoying this viewing.
    It actually has some good elements to it and Connery is really good in this.
    One thing that has always stood out for me though is how cheap it looks and yet it had a similar budget to Octopussy which is sumptuous in comparison.
    The 'bomb' gag with the bouncer in the cupboard is great BTW.

    It does look incredibly Bond on a budget. I think the soft focus and lack of flair in the cinematography doesn't help that.
  • Roadphill wrote: »
    cwl007 wrote: »
    NSNA is on TV right now in the UK giving me the chance to have a lazy watch of it. It's a Bond film I rarely choose to watch on Blu-ray so I'm quite enjoying this viewing.
    It actually has some good elements to it and Connery is really good in this.
    One thing that has always stood out for me though is how cheap it looks and yet it had a similar budget to Octopussy which is sumptuous in comparison.
    The 'bomb' gag with the bouncer in the cupboard is great BTW.

    It does look incredibly Bond on a budget. I think the soft focus and lack of flair in the cinematography doesn't help that.

    Yes, it feels like a TV movie at times.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,547
    @mtm Somehow I dont think McClory's goal was to make a great movie.

    Make a financially successful one yes.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,091
    Mallory wrote: »
    @mtm Somehow I dont think McClory's goal was to make a great movie.

    Make a financially successful one yes.

    Good ones are the ones that tend to make the most money though.
  • Posts: 1,693
    I have a magazine with an interview with Bob Simmons from the mid '80s and he talked in it about being asked to work on NSNA but turned them down flat out of loyalty to Cubby and Eon. I think there were others who also turned NSNA down except for some of the stunt people like Vic Armstrong, George Leech and several others. I'm not sure how Cubby responded to their participation. Armstrong obviously wasn't hurt as he came back for several more Bond films.
  • Is this the movie where Steven Seagal hurt Connerys wrist when he was cordinating a fight scene?
  • AstonLotus wrote: »
    Is this the movie where Steven Seagal hurt Connerys wrist when he was cordinating a fight scene?

    yes I believe so
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 9,091
    Yes! I only heard about that Seagal thing this very week because the Radio Times review mentioned it! How have I not heard that before? :)
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I have a magazine with an interview with Bob Simmons from the mid '80s and he talked in it about being asked to work on NSNA but turned them down flat out of loyalty to Cubby and Eon. I think there were others who also turned NSNA down except for some of the stunt people like Vic Armstrong, George Leech and several others. I'm not sure how Cubby responded to their participation. Armstrong obviously wasn't hurt as he came back for several more Bond films.

    I'm not sure Armstrong had been on Bond films before that though? I think it may even have been one of his very first as he started out as a horse guy.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,547
    @mtm He was a stuntman in YOLT, one of the ninjas sliding into the volcano. I think he did stunts in other Bond films but it wasnt until TND he became creatively involved.
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