Controversial opinions about Bond films

1613614616618619696

Comments

  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 952
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,945
    I’m really surprised that Spectre didn’t go through bringing back Irma Bunt. She could have helped the movie better. They’d probably get a big name actress for her.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2020 Posts: 4,324
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    Posts: 280
    This is an ideal timeline @echo, get your facts and logic out of my face [-(
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Hotel Kali-Yuga
    Posts: 40,876
    echo wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.

    How is OP inspired by Raiders?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 5,993
    echo wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    It would have suited Tim, for sure, but Moore needed a grounded film after Moonraker. Plus it messes with my dream timeline!

    We wouldn't get OP any earlier than 1983 because it's inspired by Raiders of the Lost Ark. We might have gotten a very different OP with Dalton--maybe not. Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    ...as do FYEO, AVTAK, and LTK.

    How is OP inspired by Raiders?
    I'm pretty sure he's thinking of "Temple of Doom", sporting some of the same Indian scenery...which however came out the year after OP.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    Raiders definitely had an influence on OP. Ironically, OP preceded the next Indy film that would feature India and gross out food gags.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 5,993
    Don't anybody get me wrong...I think that Raiders is one of the best adventure movies ever, and Temple of Doom is a close second in the Raiders hierarchy, and Octopussy is a rather inferior Bond film, possibly the worst of the Roger Moore era (ok, AVTAK is still maintaining a fight about that honour). But I see less influence of Raiders on OP than I see of OP on Temple, if you know what I mean. But then, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, since it's all legitimate and no plagiarism.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    To be clear, I’m not criticizing OP for taking elements from Raiders and putting it in their film. It’s just a fact. The market sequence alone was clearly a riff from Raiders. It’s okay to acknowledge these things, just as it’s okay to say that MR was clearly influenced by Star Wars. And I LOVE MR. Let’s keep it real.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Not quite sure where I am, but my heart is definitely somewhere in Italy or San Marino
    Posts: 5,447
    Ever since the early 70's I can't think of hardly any Bond film that hasn't been influenced by other popular films/genres.

    Nothing wrong with that, if you want to stay in the game for more than 50 years you must adapt to survive.

    TSWLM, FYEO, TLD and GE are the ones I would say have been influenced more by their predecessors than by other films.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 952
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ever since the early 70's I can't think of hardly any Bond film that hasn't been influenced by other popular films/genres.

    Nothing wrong with that, if you want to stay in the game for more than 50 years you must adapt to survive.

    TSWLM, FYEO, TLD and GE are the ones I would say have been influenced more by their predecessors than by other films.

    That's a fair shout.
  • Bond has been doing this forever, and I really don't see it as a problem.
  • MalloryMallory Are you ready to get back to work?
    Posts: 1,213
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I’m really surprised that Spectre didn’t go through bringing back Irma Bunt. She could have helped the movie better. They’d probably get a big name actress for her.

    She was in the shooting script dated October 2014, so very nearly made it. From memory she was just Bunt in name only really, the character didnt do much.

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,201
    Agent_One wrote: »
    In that care @Roadphill, I would've preferred if his 7th and final film was Octopussy two years early, then Dalton starts with For Your Eyes Only in '83. I just can't see anyone but Roger in OP, and I think the grittiness of FYEO would suit Tim well.

    +1. I definitely like the idea of Tim Dalton's Bond having Carole Bouquet's Melina as his leading lady. However with Connery making NSNA the same year I doubt EON would've taken a chance on a new Bond actor in 1982-1983. Hence, James Brolin didn't get the role(thankfully) and Sir Rog enlisted for another turn.
    echo wrote: »
    Tonally OP and TLD seem to go together...

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 45

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

    I also love both those films. They share a rollicking sense of adventure (the aforementioned Indiana Jones influence) and I’ve come up with a few other similarities, although they’re much more tenuous than yours. Both feature the villains involved in smuggling operations; both feature famous antiques as plot points ( Fabergé egg and Stradivarius cello); both feature an mi6 /00 colleague of Bond being assassinated near the start of the movie to kick off the plot; Bond goes to a circus in one of the films and a fun fair in the other; both showcase airplane set pieces with spectacular airborne stunt work.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Not quite sure where I am, but my heart is definitely somewhere in Italy or San Marino
    Posts: 5,447

    Agreed. My top 2 1980s Bond films. Both feature John Barry scores, both feature 2 of Bond's most believable romances with his primary leading lady, both Cold War themed, both involve villainous plots where a criminal who lives in an exotic, palatial home teams up with a renegade Soviet general who is at odds with another Soviet general.

    I also love both those films. They share a rollicking sense of adventure (the aforementioned Indiana Jones influence) and I’ve come up with a few other similarities, although they’re much more tenuous than yours. Both feature the villains involved in smuggling operations; both feature famous antiques as plot points ( Fabergé egg and Stradivarius cello); both feature an mi6 /00 colleague of Bond being assassinated near the start of the movie to kick off the plot; Bond goes to a circus in one of the films and a fun fair in the other; both showcase airplane set pieces with spectacular airborne stunt work.

    Both feature Bond driving a gorgeous car while being chased by local police forces. I also think they are the only two Bond films where we can see him literally crossing the Iron Curtain: West Germany - East Germany and the other way around in OP, Czechoslovakia - Austria twice in TLD. Now that I think if it, both are partly set in a former Eastern Bloc country that today doesn't exist anymore.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 45
    I
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    I also think they are the only two Bond films where we can see him literally crossing the Iron Curtain: West Germany - East Germany and the other way around in OP, Czechoslovakia - Austria twice in TLD. Now that I think if it, both are partly set in a former Eastern Bloc country that today doesn't exist anymore.

    He crosses across the Balkans to Austria in FRWL. I’m not quite sure of the geopolitical situation of Yugoslavia at that time - i think they were communist but not aligned with the Eastern bloc, so maybe this doesn’t count as crossing the Iron Curtain?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Not quite sure where I am, but my heart is definitely somewhere in Italy or San Marino
    Posts: 5,447
    I
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    I also think they are the only two Bond films where we can see him literally crossing the Iron Curtain: West Germany - East Germany and the other way around in OP, Czechoslovakia - Austria twice in TLD. Now that I think if it, both are partly set in a former Eastern Bloc country that today doesn't exist anymore.

    He crosses across the Balkans to Austria in FRWL. I’m not quite sure of the geopolitical situation of Yugoslavia at that time - i think they were communist but not aligned with the Eastern bloc, so maybe this doesn’t count as crossing the Iron Curtain?

    Yugoslavia wasn't part of the Warsaw Pact, even though it was a communist country.

    Always thought he crossed the border to Italy though, as he goes by sea.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 45
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    Always thought he crossed the border to Italy though, as he goes by sea.

    You’re right, it’s the Adriatic. In my head I had it as a lake - possibly as it was filmed on a Scottish Loch (although it could have been a Sea Loch I guess, in which case I’m doubly wrong)
  • Posts: 13,098
    Roadphill wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I'm sure this may not be controversial, but Licence To Kill is a really, bloody good film.

    Its not, however, a good Bond film.

    Please share more of your thoughts on this. I'm always interested in hearing different ideas and LTK is a really polarizing film.

    @BT3366 apologies for the late reply.

    LTK is a cracking film. Its well paced, plotted and acted. The gritty vibe is superb, too.

    The reasons I don't find it quintessential Bond; Simply, it feels too American. A touch too dark, it has a decidedly 'made for TV' look about it, and was too in to the Miami Vice vibe.

    My wife and I watched it a couple of weeks ago, the first time I have seen it for a few years. She is by no means a big Bond fan, but she remarked that it "feels like a Die Hard film with Timothy Dalton instead of Bruce Willis". I have to agree with that.

    Its a better film than probably 10 of the other 007 movies at least, but it isn't quintessential Bond, for me.

    That's pretty much how I feel about it. LTK looks and feels like an action movie where Bond was meant to make a cameo appearance and then gets center stage.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 952
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I'm sure this may not be controversial, but Licence To Kill is a really, bloody good film.

    Its not, however, a good Bond film.

    Please share more of your thoughts on this. I'm always interested in hearing different ideas and LTK is a really polarizing film.

    @BT3366 apologies for the late reply.

    LTK is a cracking film. Its well paced, plotted and acted. The gritty vibe is superb, too.

    The reasons I don't find it quintessential Bond; Simply, it feels too American. A touch too dark, it has a decidedly 'made for TV' look about it, and was too in to the Miami Vice vibe.

    My wife and I watched it a couple of weeks ago, the first time I have seen it for a few years. She is by no means a big Bond fan, but she remarked that it "feels like a Die Hard film with Timothy Dalton instead of Bruce Willis". I have to agree with that.

    Its a better film than probably 10 of the other 007 movies at least, but it isn't quintessential Bond, for me.

    That's pretty much how I feel about it. LTK looks and feels like an action movie where Bond was meant to make a cameo appearance and then gets center stage.

    Agreed.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 952
    Controversial opinion re Octopussy, it's my least favourite Moore film.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 678
    OP is better than TMWTGG, AVTAK and maybe MR. FYEO and TSWLM are far better. LALD is about the same.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Not quite sure where I am, but my heart is definitely somewhere in Italy or San Marino
    Posts: 5,447
    OP is my favourite of the Moore films. Spy comes close though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Hotel Kali-Yuga
    Posts: 40,876
    My fav Moore is TMWTGG, and my least fav is LALD.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 45
    I love all of Sir Roger’s Bond movies. Probably MR is my favourite but OP and FYEO are not far behind. If I had to pick a least favourite it would be AVTAK, but it’s still a movie I hugely enjoy
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Not quite sure where I am, but my heart is definitely somewhere in Italy or San Marino
    edited September 2020 Posts: 5,447
    My least favourite of his is FYEO. I agree it's a welcome return to basics, but compared to his other efforts it's a bit vanilla.

    I always go for Rog when I'm in the mood for unapologetic fun, when I'm more in a Flemingesque mood I tend to go for the early Connery's, Lazenby or Dalton.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,688
    controversial opinion?
    OP is Moore's best
Sign In or Register to comment.