How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    Wesley Snipes could work greatly on the role if he were like 5-10 years younger. and repeating, i'm Just Saying this.

    Dear Christ. I love Wesley in Demolition Man and White Men Cant Jump (hmm not sure how that title wouldve been allowed if it had been other way round) but Bond. Seriously?
    SaintMark wrote:
    How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

    Call me a racist but I would be finished with the 007 series. It is not something I would bewilling to watch. The same goes for the what if he is played by a woman, probably makes me sexist too. I do not care from any deviation from the original character as has happened so far.

    Well said sir. Its not a race thing its the riding roughshod over who Bond is. And in terms of someone like Bond who is part of the establishment and old boy network then race is a defining characteristic. The same way sex would be. I am just as equally against a female Bond but for some (fairly obvious) reason this debate hardly ever arises, and when it does it is certainly lacks the same vehement polarisation of opinion.

    Theres been many a black Hamlet and I'm sure white Othellos over the years but generally when they do this its just as a gimmick and so they can set it in South Central LA or the future or some bollocks like that. I can see why they do it as everyone knows the story and its just a way of freshening it up and I think the way things are today that we will probably end up with a black Bond one day.

    However as someone who is already uncomfortable with the revisionist bullshit that came out for CR about Bond being born in 67 and being in the SAS etc, it would be jumping the shark to say the least if they rebooted it again to say he was born in Brixton in 1979 and attended a comprehensive before fighting in Helmand province.

    I would switch off at this point as the character on screen would bear no relation to Ian Flemings intentions whatsoever.

    Whenever debates like this occur I am always moved to remember the words of wisdom uttered by that fountain of knowledge known as Alan Partidge:

    'STOP GETTING BOND WRONG!'
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    TRADITION IS EVERYTHING.

    Tradition is not everything. If it were, we'd still be in caves painting on walls and making square wheels. Some traditions last, others do not. If Bond were black, it would be a change I'd have no problem with. It's not like that one black movie would erase the 23 white movies we've already got.

    And, listen to the people talking about mixing historical people and fictional people, stop putting the two together like they're one in the same. Yes, some of us care about Bond enough that to us, he is real (not me, though), but the simple fact is that he's not.
    SaintMark wrote:
    How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

    Call me a racist but I would be finished with the 007 series. It is not something I would bewilling to watch. The same goes for the what if he is played by a woman, probably makes me sexist too. I do not care from any deviation from the original character as has happened so far.

    So, you're not a fan of trying new things?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,569
    SaintMark wrote:
    How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

    Call me a racist but I would be finished with the 007 series. It is not something I would bewilling to watch. The same goes for the what if he is played by a woman, probably makes me sexist too. I do not care from any deviation from the original character as has happened so far.

    So, you're not a fan of trying new things?

    I think there's a limit to trying new things. The elements @SaintMark describes fall in a category I agree should never be explored by the Bond films. I don't want the Bonds becoming rape/revenge films or cannibal shockexploitation. Does that mean I'm not a fan of trying new things? Let's say it means I'm a Bond fan.

    When I order a steak, I will decide right there and then how it needs to be done, I might consider trying a different sauce with it, possibly different seasoning and I might even have it with bread instead of fries. But I still want my steak. Casting a female Bond, a non-British Bond, a black Bond, ... is like ordering a steak and getting a candy bar instead.

  • Posts: 12,506
    I have to say this whole debate is quite farcical?!!! Why all the heated debate in a what if debate? Look at the fuss Daniel Craig's hair caused? And if i am not mistaken? I'm sure there was some unnecessary comments from the press regarding even Mr Craig's skin? Blotchy if i am not mistaken? So if his whole look is changed? Heaven help us all! X_X
  • Posts: 228
    SaintMark wrote:
    How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

    Call me a racist but I would be finished with the 007 series. It is not something I would bewilling to watch. The same goes for the what if he is played by a woman, probably makes me sexist too. I do not care from any deviation from the original character as has happened so far.


    Amen Mark, finally a post I enjoy in here.
    I find it absolutely amazing that most of the people in here supporting the idea of a black - bond at some point were totally against the idea of a R-RATED bond film at some time. So some of you can't tell us we cant accept change.

    As long as Barbara Brocolli is alive, we will not be seeing a dark skinned bond, her father Cubby was very keen on the fact of keeping Bond a white British Male and I find it hard to believe she thinks any different.

    Plus the franchise would suffer more than it could gain in this situation. Theres plenty of other ideas out there for black espionage movies, Bond is set in stone as white, its just the way it is.

    Tradition is Everything when it comes to the 007 franchise, the tradition of M, moneypenny, bonds random adventure , the casino scenes, martini ordering , Bonds famous sexy black tuxedo, his walther ppk, THE FACT HE HAS BEEN WHITE FOR 23 FILMS. These are the reasons the franchise has lasted, its managed to keep a winning formula with only changing or tweaking it to a better standard.

    Could you imagine the outrage of the black community if a new shaft came out starring a white guy !!?? it would be considered a racist out of this world act of hate. ohhhh but its okay to make the legendary 23 bond film franchise a black guy just to change things up...

    please get outa here, if bond ever becomes black im done with the series for good.
  • RC7RC7
    edited May 2012 Posts: 10,512
    @TouchMyButtons it seems like a few people have well and truly pushed your buttons. I know profanity is not considered good practice here and I would usually choose not to do it but just to confirm, you're a ***********.

    Mod edit: Even more so than not being considered good practice, it is also in violation of our forum policy. Please refrain from using strong language.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,500
    @TouchMyButtons, but I would support an R-rated film and a black actor playing Bond. If they ever made Bond black, even for one film, I would give it a try. If you leave, then you leave. It won't affect any of us in the slightest. The film, maybe, but not your leaving of the franchise.
  • Posts: 297
    A black Bond is an awful idea. And look who's talkin' there. The only way you'd ever get a black Bond was if Q-branch gene therapy was able to change pigmentation for reasons of nighttime camouflage. Who knows, perhaps in 150 - 200 years? Otherwise, no. Don't see it working.
  • Posts: 228
    Great post Kennon, haha and you bring up quite a great point with the pigmentation .

    I completely agree though, terribly awful idea.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    RC7 I am quite confused by you're anger? I think we can all manage to discuss things out on here reasonably without name calling. If there is something I said that upset you please tell me what it is so we can move on to a better relationship of understanding because quite honestly you seem like a reasonable fellow.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,990
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @TouchMyButtons, but I would support an R-rated film and a black actor playing Bond. If they ever made Bond black, even for one film, I would give it a try. If you leave, then you leave. It won't affect any of us in the slightest. The film, maybe, but not your leaving of the franchise.

    It seems that Bond fans fall into two camps: one which gives Bond license to adapt to the times (a female M, love interests who are Bond's equal, a Moneypenny who gives Bond a run for his money, even a black Bond) and one which wants more or less a '50s period piece (a male M, love interests who are subservient, a spinsterish Moneypenny, etc.).
  • Posts: 12,837
    SaintMark wrote:
    How would you feel if a black JAMES BOND was cast?

    Call me a racist but I would be finished with the 007 series. It is not something I would bewilling to watch. The same goes for the what if he is played by a woman, probably makes me sexist too. I do not care from any deviation from the original character as has happened so far.


    Amen Mark, finally a post I enjoy in here.
    I find it absolutely amazing that most of the people in here supporting the idea of a black - bond at some point were totally against the idea of a R-RATED bond film at some time. So some of you can't tell us we cant accept change.

    As long as Barbara Brocolli is alive, we will not be seeing a dark skinned bond, her father Cubby was very keen on the fact of keeping Bond a white British Male and I find it hard to believe she thinks any different.

    Plus the franchise would suffer more than it could gain in this situation. Theres plenty of other ideas out there for black espionage movies, Bond is set in stone as white, its just the way it is.

    Tradition is Everything when it comes to the 007 franchise, the tradition of M, moneypenny, bonds random adventure , the casino scenes, martini ordering , Bonds famous sexy black tuxedo, his walther ppk, THE FACT HE HAS BEEN WHITE FOR 23 FILMS. These are the reasons the franchise has lasted, its managed to keep a winning formula with only changing or tweaking it to a better standard.

    Could you imagine the outrage of the black community if a new shaft came out starring a white guy !!?? it would be considered a racist out of this world act of hate. ohhhh but its okay to make the legendary 23 bond film franchise a black guy just to change things up...

    please get outa here, if bond ever becomes black im done with the series for good.

    You seemed to enjoy every post that was for the idea of the last Bond.

    And I'd be against Shaft being played by anyone other than Richard Roundtree, black or white.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,500
    @echo, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I have my limits: I wouldn't mind if M went back to being a man - quite frankly, it might be well embraced by me - but I would mind if James Bond became a woman. I wouldn't mind seeing a black person play Bond, but there's a difference between me being interested in the idea, and me actually seeing the film on screen and making a final judgment. Who knows.

    In all honesty, I don't see it happening. Would I mind? Not necessarily. Do I see it happening? No.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2012 Posts: 5,990
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @echo, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I have my limits: I wouldn't mind if M went back to being a man - quite frankly, it might be well embraced by me - but I would mind if James Bond became a woman. I wouldn't mind seeing a black person play Bond, but there's a difference between me being interested in the idea, and me actually seeing the film on screen and making a final judgment. Who knows.

    In all honesty, I don't see it happening. Would I mind? Not necessarily. Do I see it happening? No.

    I agree. A female Bond wouldn't really work. To me the two defining characteristics of Bond are that he is British and that he is irresistible to women. Race doesn't enter into it for me.
  • Posts: 228
    My most favorable interpretation of Bond so far is Craig's version, A strong brutal looking well fit early middle aged man that knows how fight and get the job done when necessary. I would love to see M return to being a man, it was a pure politically correct move in 95 to transfer the role over to a woman, but I have grown to enjoy Judi Dench and think she's done a good job, especially in CR.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    @TouchMyButtons It's not so much what you said but the rationale behind your arguments, of which there is none. I don't really buy the 'that's just the way it is' argument. It's something I expect to hear from a religious fanatic who can't rationalise an argument due to a lack of objectivity.

    I've seen a lot of anti-gay, anti-black sentiment on here recently masked by the frankly indefensible argument that 'I know someone who's black/gay so what I'm saying is validated'. It's not.

    Believe it or not while I'm not fussed about whether Bond is white or black I would genuinely prefer he remained white, for the very selfish reason that Bond has always been my role model and I'd feel understandably distanced if he was no longer a white british man.

    However, I'm not a fan of this right-wing school of thought that states clearly Bond should NEVER be anything but white. Using the 'PC Brigade' to justify your self-righteousness is pointless. There's no such thing as the 'PC Brigade' it's a media fabrication to counter-balance Jeremy Clarkson loving pillocks. Most rational people can see that sometimes an argument is never black and white (no pun intended) but rather different shades of grey...

    I also think referencing Rosa Parks, Malcolm X etc was a bad idea. That argument can't ever stand up.

    I respect your right to an opinion but all I'll say is this, don't be afraid if your heart and your head are conflicted. You seem to display all of the traits of someone who's unwilling to admit that they're possibly wrong, someone who likes the idea of a right-wing utopia where your opinion is the only one that counts, and why? Because it just does.

    If you allow yourself to actually consider different opinions you may just find you learn something. I'm not saying you have to agree but it may open your eyes if you are willing to see things in a different light.

    I find the best comments on this forum are those from people with a genuine outlook. Not a borrowed set of values. Even if I don't agree with what they say, at least it makes me consider their point of view. You don't make me consider your arguments because they seem uneducated and irrational.

    I don't have a problem with you. Hopefully this explains my POV.



  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,990
    Really well-stated, RC7.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    In my many years frequenting the James Bond forums, I have seen this topic arise on too many occasions to accurately note - just as I have seen a fair few threads on a gay Bond or whether or not he should smoke. The argument seems to always provoke strong reactions in people, and I guess animated discussion should be welcomed.
    However, it never really does anything other than antagonise people.
    Frankly, I think the point is moot (or moo, if you're Joey from Friends). I mean, they're never going to do it, are they? And if they did, so what? Some of us would shrug our shoulders, some of us would protest angrily and perhaps even distance themselves from the franchise. But in the end there is nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
    So, all this arguing really serves to do is to highlight certain individual posters' borderline racism and other posters' liberalism.
    Perhaps we should spend more time appreciating what we have, rather than spend time arguing about what we don't.
  • Posts: 297
    RC7 wrote:
    Believe it or not while I'm not fussed about whether Bond is white or black I would genuinely prefer he remained white, for the very selfish reason that Bond has always been my role model and I'd feel understandably distanced if he was no longer a white british man.

    However, I'm not a fan of this right-wing school of thought that states clearly Bond should NEVER be anything but white. Using the 'PC Brigade' to justify your self-righteousness is pointless. There's no such thing as the 'PC Brigade' it's a media fabrication to counter-balance Jeremy Clarkson loving pillocks. Most rational people can see that sometimes an argument is never black and white (no pun intended) but rather different shades of grey...


    For me this is not about race or some teababblenazi BS a few radicals chant like it's become a religion (which it probably has with these guys). Black skin is just something even a genius actor can't act around. You can get taller with lifts and good cinematography, you can bulk up or lose chubbiness, act like a ladykiller and so on. But black skin is like the face, the first split sec decides how everybody is going to see you. And believe me I know a lot of cool cats. The white ones and the black ones are two different things. I wouldn't freak out or something if there ever was a black actor cast. It just won't happen any time soon I think.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2012 Posts: 40,500
    @doubleonothing, it's more so something that branched from a terrible comparison to real life characters. I do agree: Bond is finally back after four years, and we should appreciate what we have, while we have it. A few topics have been getting completely off-track lately - not so much this one, but it's taken a very serious turn - just from misunderstandings, or completely off-the-wall comments.
  • Posts: 228
    Some things just should never change in this world and one of those things is bond's skin color. Ian Fleming never intended for Bond to be black, the least we can do is respect the dead mans wishes.

    Im not sure some of you understand the consequences this would have on the franchise, in my opinion it would destroy any sense of credibility and tradition the franchise carries.

    Why can't a new franchise be made for a black spy , seriously james bond is not the only option for a black guy, theres many other ideas out there.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,990
    To quote Fleming in DAF, "Bond had a natural affection for coloured people, but he reflected how lucky England was compared with America where you had to live with the colour problem from your schooldays up."

    Eon was smart to leave behind some traditions of Fleming.
  • Posts: 1,548
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I would disown the franchise if this ever happened.


    amen.



    and as for Dalton Craig calling my argument rubbish, what im trying to say in my argument is that the changing of a fictional or non fictional black character into a white character would be considered outrageous and racist, but for a white character whether it be fictional or non fictional to be changed into a black character would be considered modern and acceptable. My point is we live in a culture of pure political correctness and white man is the new minority of this new 3rd world coming of age America.

    Its just not right, the books clearly state bonds characteristics and thats what the movies are based upon, Ian Fleming's James Bond.


    A black actor as Bond is almost as bad as saying Roger Moore is a better actor/Bond than Daniel Craig!

  • edited May 2012 Posts: 774
    Someone being black is just their skin colour. It's the way they look, it's not a big deal in a modern, forward thinking society. If they're still Bond as a character and everything else is maintained, I don't see the problem with having a Bond that looks different. Not saying a black Bond is what I'm desperate for, just saying it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if there were one.
    Im not sure some of you understand the consequences this would have on the franchise, in my opinion it would destroy any sense of credibility and tradition the franchise carries.

    Not sure how it would destroy the credibility of the franchise, the role has been played by different looking actors before. Look at Craig. Blonde Bond. Casino Royale was one of the franchise's biggest successes and no credibility was lost.

    You say Craig is your favourite interpretation of Bond, and you want to maintain all the established traditions of the Bond franchise. But Craig's Bond has broken more traditions than any Bond before him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,500
    @TouchMyButtons, what of Lazenby being Australian? Does that bother you at all?
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 2,341
    @Volante and Creasy47
    Your comments are probably the only sensible ones I have seen on this thread.

    I hate to see comments from people who are probably fairly young and wonder why the hate. In my day the old farts were the racists. Young people were open and forward thinking. Remember the youth changed the world...

    Face it Fleming was himself a racist. He grew up at a time when racism was very rampant in the UK as well as the USA. His books tend to be racist and very xenophoebic. He was all for England and if one reads the books the villians are never English. they are Germans, Asians, blacks, Russians, Irish, etc.

    The world has changed for the most part and except for a few narrow minded young fans on this board, the world will continue to evolve and change and hopefully for the betterment of us all.

    Bond's color would make no difference to me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,500
    @OHMSS69, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
  • Posts: 774
    @OHMSS69 Thank you!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2012 Posts: 5,990
    This thread features some of the worst--and paradoxically, best--comments I have seen on this board.

    I agree wholeheartedly with OHMSS69, Volante, and Creasy47. The world has changed for the better, especially with regard to race. I have never been prouder of the US than when we elected an African-American as President, no small feat given our very troublesome history with race.

    Fleming was indeed a racist. He was a product of his time and his class, but he was also someone who spent considerable time in Jamaica, and it's disappointing to me that he wasn't more open-minded. On the other hand, he gave us a thrilling creation in Bond, a character who has stood the test of time.

    Fleming's brilliance doesn't excuse his ignorance, nor does his ignorance erase his brilliance.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,500
    @echo, and it's crazy to think that, just fifty or sixty years ago, the thought of black man being the President of the United States would be impossible, and would be seen as a fact. Now? Anything is possible.
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