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SKYFALL: Is this the best Bond film?

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I dunno, OHMSS wouldn’t be my favorite Lazenby Bond film.

    ;)
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I dunno, OHMSS wouldn’t be my favorite Lazenby Bond film.

    ;)

    I simply mentioned it to complete the list [-(
    It's not my fault he only did one.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,500
    Resurrection wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Sorry mate, it seems I was a bit too fast with my response. Got carried away ;)

    That's all right no need to say sorry, we share the same passion ;) , even my favorites aren't GF/TSWLM/SF .

    These are my favorites for every bond actor: DR No/OHMSS/OP/TLD/GE/CR .


    OHMSS is your favorite Lazenby film?? Ballsy move. You know we have a thread for controversial opinions?

    Are you here to nitpick my comment or every other word i wrote gone above your head. Try better next time. Ballsy move.


    I was obviously kidding. Duh...
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Resurrection wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    OHMSS, TB, DN, FRWL, GF, CR, TLD, LTK, FYEO and GE. I don't feel that outside of these films that the Bond franchise in general has produced a movie that has reached similar heights, IMO.

    If we are talking about reaching heights that can only happen once for every bond actor. I mean it's not a coincidence that 3 bond actors reached to their best at their 3rd film, Sean had GF/ Roger had TSWLM/ Daniel had SF. George and Timothy never got the chance and pierce was the only one who couldn't reach to that mark. Even Robert Davi defended Timothy by saying
    "he never got the 3rd attempt, if you think about that, it took 3 pictures for Sean Connery to reach to that mark".

    What Timmy did in just two outings is impressive nevertheless.

    I’m not into the whole ‘3rd film idea’ anyway. Sean was it his best with Terence Young (his 1st, 2nd and 4th outings respectively), George was great in his only outing, Rog I prefer very much in his first two outings and in OP over TSWLM, Tim hit the notes perfectly in his double feature, Pierce was arguably at his best in either GE or DAD and I think Daniel’s performance in QOS outshines what followed.

    Now that I think of it, I don’t think any actor reached his peak at #3.

    We were talking about overall success of the film. I get what you are saying but there is no comparison in terms of performance with overall quality of the film. We as bond fans will always have our favorites but i was merely talking about general audience. A lot of my friends who aren't bond fans Still prefer SF over the first two of DC. My father who has watched every bond actor, he only remembers GF/TSWLM/SF of all. Why do you think that is?
    As I said it's not a coincidence that it took 3 film for 3 bond actors to be accepted as bond completely and this is coming from someone who is lifetime defender of Timothy's bond.

    I personally don't subscribe to that theory either. I personally find Craig's best performance to be Casino Royale and I'm not a fan of Skyfall as mentioned previously in this thread. Brosnan's best performance was in Die Another Day but I think Goldeneye is undoubtedly his best film. I think the films I mentioned (which happen to be my top ten favourites) are the benchmark for quality in the franchise, IMO. I wasn't arguing that each film represents the best of each actor, but now reflecting on it you could definitely say that.

    I've seen that interview with Davi and I agree that if Dalton had returned for Goldeneye that it would've been his best entry, but I find Tim in both his films to be brilliant and he's incredibly sure-footed in his portrayal across both films. Arguably, Dalton was the most confident in his first appearance as Bond then any of the other actors to take on the role.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,818
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    OHMSS, TB, DN, FRWL, GF, CR, TLD, LTK, FYEO and GE. I don't feel that outside of these films that the Bond franchise in general has produced a movie that has reached similar heights, IMO.

    If we are talking about reaching heights that can only happen once for every bond actor. I mean it's not a coincidence that 3 bond actors reached to their best at their 3rd film, Sean had GF/ Roger had TSWLM/ Daniel had SF. George and Timothy never got the chance and pierce was the only one who couldn't reach to that mark. Even Robert Davi defended Timothy by saying
    "he never got the 3rd attempt, if you think about that, it took 3 pictures for Sean Connery to reach to that mark".

    What Timmy did in just two outings is impressive nevertheless.

    I’m not into the whole ‘3rd film idea’ anyway. Sean was it his best with Terence Young (his 1st, 2nd and 4th outings respectively), George was great in his only outing, Rog I prefer very much in his first two outings and in OP over TSWLM, Tim hit the notes perfectly in his double feature, Pierce was arguably at his best in either GE or DAD and I think Daniel’s performance in QOS outshines what followed.

    Now that I think of it, I don’t think any actor reached his peak at #3.

    We were talking about overall success of the film. I get what you are saying but there is no comparison in terms of performance with overall quality of the film. We as bond fans will always have our favorites but i was merely talking about general audience. A lot of my friends who aren't bond fans Still prefer SF over the first two of DC. My father who has watched every bond actor, he only remembers GF/TSWLM/SF of all. Why do you think that is?
    As I said it's not a coincidence that it took 3 film for 3 bond actors to be accepted as bond completely and this is coming from someone who is lifetime defender of Timothy's bond.

    I personally don't subscribe to that theory either. I personally find Craig's best performance to be Casino Royale and I'm not a fan of Skyfall as mentioned previously in this thread. Brosnan's best performance was in Die Another Day but I think Goldeneye is undoubtedly his best film. I think the films I mentioned (which happen to be my top ten favourites) are the benchmark for quality in the franchise, IMO. I wasn't arguing that each film represents the best of each actor, but now reflecting on it you could definitely say that.

    I've seen that interview with Davi and I agree that if Dalton had returned for Goldeneye that it would've been his best entry, but I find Tim in both his films to be brilliant and he's incredibly sure-footed in his portrayal across both films. Arguably, Dalton was the most confident in his first appearance as Bond then any of the other actors to take on the role.

    Agreed. People talk about actors 3rd entry as their best and most settled in the role. As far as I'm concerned, Dalton nailed it on his first, LTK was just the icing on the cake!
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    jobo wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Sorry mate, it seems I was a bit too fast with my response. Got carried away ;)

    That's all right no need to say sorry, we share the same passion ;) , even my favorites aren't GF/TSWLM/SF .

    These are my favorites for every bond actor: DR No/OHMSS/OP/TLD/GE/CR .


    OHMSS is your favorite Lazenby film?? Ballsy move. You know we have a thread for controversial opinions?

    Are you here to nitpick my comment or every other word i wrote gone above your head. Try better next time. Ballsy move.


    I was obviously kidding. Duh...

    Oh sorry didn't realize that
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,400
    I feel this video has slipped under the radar...



    Look how emotional a reaction that Sam Mendes has at the end of the video whilst filming the scene of M's death.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    I probably answered this question way back a million years ago when this thread started but NO. It's not the best Bond film. It isn't even the best Daniel Craig Bond film. Skyfall is really damn good though. Second to GF when it comes to third film for a Bond actor. The two fellows that never made it to a third, The Laz and T-Dalts, were already pretty self assured in their first. Especially Dalton. With Lazenby, I imagine he'd have gotten better by his second, third and fourth. Brosnan in his third felt less assured than before somehow. Connery was so perfect already in DN and only got more perfect from there, through TB, where he's at his swaggering, charming, confident best. Same with Roger to a lesser extent. Craig, like Connery, was already so right on for the role in his first.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Love that video @Pierce2Daniel thanks for sharing. What a fantastic actress Judy is, still my favorite M.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Resurrection wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    OHMSS, TB, DN, FRWL, GF, CR, TLD, LTK, FYEO and GE. I don't feel that outside of these films that the Bond franchise in general has produced a movie that has reached similar heights, IMO.

    If we are talking about reaching heights that can only happen once for every bond actor. I mean it's not a coincidence that 3 bond actors reached to their best at their 3rd film, Sean had GF/ Roger had TSWLM/ Daniel had SF. George and Timothy never got the chance and pierce was the only one who couldn't reach to that mark. Even Robert Davi defended Timothy by saying
    "he never got the 3rd attempt, if you think about that, it took 3 pictures for Sean Connery to reach to that mark".

    What Timmy did in just two outings is impressive nevertheless.

    I’m not into the whole ‘3rd film idea’ anyway. Sean was it his best with Terence Young (his 1st, 2nd and 4th outings respectively), George was great in his only outing, Rog I prefer very much in his first two outings and in OP over TSWLM, Tim hit the notes perfectly in his double feature, Pierce was arguably at his best in either GE or DAD and I think Daniel’s performance in QOS outshines what followed.

    Now that I think of it, I don’t think any actor reached his peak at #3.

    We were talking about overall success of the film. I get what you are saying but there is no comparison in terms of performance with overall quality of the film. We as bond fans will always have our favorites but i was merely talking about general audience. A lot of my friends who aren't bond fans Still prefer SF over the first two of DC. My father who has watched every bond actor, he only remembers GF/TSWLM/SF of all. Why do you think that is?
    As I said it's not a coincidence that it took 3 film for 3 bond actors to be accepted as bond completely and this is coming from someone who is lifetime defender of Timothy's bond.

    I personally don't subscribe to that theory either. I personally find Craig's best performance to be Casino Royale and I'm not a fan of Skyfall as mentioned previously in this thread. Brosnan's best performance was in Die Another Day but I think Goldeneye is undoubtedly his best film. I think the films I mentioned (which happen to be my top ten favourites) are the benchmark for quality in the franchise, IMO. I wasn't arguing that each film represents the best of each actor, but now reflecting on it you could definitely say that.

    I've seen that interview with Davi and I agree that if Dalton had returned for Goldeneye that it would've been his best entry, but I find Tim in both his films to be brilliant and he's incredibly sure-footed in his portrayal across both films. Arguably, Dalton was the most confident in his first appearance as Bond then any of the other actors to take on the role.

    I really don't see that at all, it is a great debut but Connery and Craig are undoubtedly the most assured and relaxed in their first appearances in the role.

    Dalton never came across to me as not being entirely comfortable in the role, the way some lines are read, he is nowhere the assured performer that Connery & Craig are. Roger took 2 films to get there, Lines like "better make that two" he just doesn't feel comfortable saying these that would have rolled off Roger's tongue with ease.

    TLD is though top 10 for me and a great film to start on but the most confident debut I don't see it.

    Maybe a third he might have found that moment but we'll never know. It is probably fair to say that he never got the entry that was entirely tailored for his take on the character, even LTK had hangovers from the Moore era.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited March 2020 Posts: 616
    I watched SKYFALL for only the second time just a few weeks ago. The good news is, I didn't find it appallingly bad as I did in 2012 (would probably place it about 2/3 of the way down my Bond rankings, just above Brosnan's four films). The first hour or so has some GREAT stuff -- particularly the pre-credits sequence.

    It starts to fall apart when Bond has to shoot the bottle off Severine's head. This is just an amazingly stupid and tone-deaf scene. Any writer worth his salt would have designed it so that Bond deliberately misses Severine and then, when Silva moves to kill her, Bond overpowers him and his two goons, thereby saving Severine. THEN the helicopters arrive. The scene as it plays out is a giant WTF, one of the worst missteps in the Bond series.

    There are a couple of great moments after that -- the destruction of Skyfall has a kind of hypnotic allure -- but there are too many stupid things that keep it from being a classic. But again, I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I watched SKYFALL for only the second time just a few weeks ago. The good news is, I didn't find it appallingly bad as I did in 2012 (would probably place it about 2/3 of the way down my Bond rankings, just above Brosnan's four films). The first hour or so has some GREAT stuff -- particularly the pre-credits sequence.

    It starts to fall apart when Bond has to shoot the bottle off Severine's head. This is just an amazingly stupid and tone-deaf scene. Any writer worth his salt would have designed it so that Bond deliberately misses Severine and then, when Silva moves to kill her, Bond overpowers him and his two goons, thereby saving Severine. THEN the helicopters arrive. The scene as it plays out is a giant WTF, one of the worst missteps in the Bond series.

    There are a couple of great moments after that -- the destruction of Skyfall has a kind of hypnotic allure -- but there are too many stupid things that keep it from being a classic. But again, I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.

    It's still better than Licence to Kill.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I watched SKYFALL for only the second time just a few weeks ago. The good news is, I didn't find it appallingly bad as I did in 2012 (would probably place it about 2/3 of the way down my Bond rankings, just above Brosnan's four films). The first hour or so has some GREAT stuff -- particularly the pre-credits sequence.

    It starts to fall apart when Bond has to shoot the bottle off Severine's head. This is just an amazingly stupid and tone-deaf scene. Any writer worth his salt would have designed it so that Bond deliberately misses Severine and then, when Silva moves to kill her, Bond overpowers him and his two goons, thereby saving Severine. THEN the helicopters arrive. The scene as it plays out is a giant WTF, one of the worst missteps in the Bond series.

    There are a couple of great moments after that -- the destruction of Skyfall has a kind of hypnotic allure -- but there are too many stupid things that keep it from being a classic. But again, I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.

    I'm just not sure how I could possibly disagree with an opinion more.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.

    Yeah, I don't like Skyfall either, but that's a stretch too far, IMO. The caveat being Goldeneye of course! The culmination of the good elements of SF far outweigh anything Brosnan brought to the table in TND, TWINE and DAD combined.

  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    I’d happily want to watch Skyfall over any of Brosnan’s. I really like SF.

    Not to rag on him, but I’d easily watch Spectre, which I like a lot too, over any Bros movie. 🤐 I’m sure I’m in the vast minority on the one. I should post that in the Controversial Opinion thread.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2020 Posts: 7,526
    GoldenEye
    Casino Royale
    Spectre
    Skyfall
    Quantum of Solace
    Tomorrow Never Dies
    The World Is Not Enough
    Die Another Day

    I don't even think this list really encapsulates my feelings on the Brosnan/Craig era, but I don't really know what I'd change with what. I have a lot of sentimentality with GoldenEye (I think many here do) and it's incredibly fun. I also really enjoy watching Spectre, maybe more than most. I also really like watching Quantum of Solace, but I have a hard time moving it above any of the entries above it.

    Suffice to say I don't think Skyfall is the best Bond film. I still think it has the best Bond film scene in it though.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    CR
    SF
    SP
    QOS
    GE
    TND
    TWINE
    DAD

    I, like so many other Bond fans, got into the film series via Goldeneye, seeing it in theaters when I was 16. While it isn’t in my top ten ranking, and my opinion on the overall quality of the film has lessened in the ensuing years, GE still holds a kind of special place in my heart as my first Bond experience.

    @NickTwentyTwo what scene was that from SF?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2020 Posts: 7,526
    @Thunderball maybe my controversial opinion, but the Dead Island scene, beginning from "Tells a story, doesn't it?" Right after they go outside, up until the choppers arrive. It is it's own Bond film within a Bond film, it has it all:

    Tuxedo Bond
    Desolate Locale
    Megalomanical Villain (with monologue)
    Henchmen
    Decadence (old timey pistols)
    Fantastically Expensive Scotch
    Beautiful Woman
    Gripping Tension, and Death
    Bond dispatches henchmen with practiced skill
    Gadget from Q Branch
    Quip from Bond
    Bond Theme.

    I think if anyone were to ask me to show them five minutes of Bond it would probably be this scene.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    It’s pretty damn good and it features one of the, if not THE best villain introduction in the series. My only problem with the Dead Island sequence was the death of Severine. I absolutely love her and wish she could have stuck around at least a little longer.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    More Severine would have been a very welcome thing for sure. And I agree, really everything on the dead island I find pretty fantastic. The only gripe I have with it all is they do a lot of “telling” us why Silva is so scary instead of “showing” us (up until we actually meet him).
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    CR
    GE
    QOS
    SF
    SP
    TND
    DAD
    TWINE
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    If I only had the Brosnan and Craig films on a deserted island, this is how I'd rate and watch them (which is slightly different how I rate them against the entire series-- i.e. Spectre doesn't fall behind any Brosnan films with this ranking):

    CR/SF
    QOS


    SP


    TND
    GE

    TWINE

    DAD
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,818
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I watched SKYFALL for only the second time just a few weeks ago. The good news is, I didn't find it appallingly bad as I did in 2012 (would probably place it about 2/3 of the way down my Bond rankings, just above Brosnan's four films). The first hour or so has some GREAT stuff -- particularly the pre-credits sequence.

    It starts to fall apart when Bond has to shoot the bottle off Severine's head. This is just an amazingly stupid and tone-deaf scene. Any writer worth his salt would have designed it so that Bond deliberately misses Severine and then, when Silva moves to kill her, Bond overpowers him and his two goons, thereby saving Severine. THEN the helicopters arrive. The scene as it plays out is a giant WTF, one of the worst missteps in the Bond series.

    There are a couple of great moments after that -- the destruction of Skyfall has a kind of hypnotic allure -- but there are too many stupid things that keep it from being a classic. But again, I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.

    Apart from the pts, the death of Severine sequence is the only scene where I felt I was watching a Bond movie!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    CR
    GE
    SF

    TND
    TWINE
    QOS

    SP
    DAD



    Phew.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,400
    Another great BTS video about the PTS. you really forget how terrific Craig was for actually doing a lot of the train stunt himself. They could have esily have cheated with the close-up's at Pinewood. Quite amazing.



    Another interesting video of John Logan and Sam Mendes talking location



    Also, a cute video of Craig hugging Dench



    Another video on the villains, don't you think Craig's obviously ADR line at 01:40 of "Who are you working for?" is a little wooden...



    Return of Bond



    Everyone's favourite composer..........................................



    The girls......



    Also, proof that Chris Corbould has the best job in the world

  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,883
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    @Thunderball maybe my controversial opinion, but the Dead Island scene, beginning from "Tells a story, doesn't it?" Right after they go outside, up until the choppers arrive. It is it's own Bond film within a Bond film, it has it all:

    Tuxedo Bond
    Desolate Locale
    Megalomanical Villain (with monologue)
    Henchmen
    Decadence (old timey pistols)
    Fantastically Expensive Scotch
    Beautiful Woman
    Gripping Tension, and Death
    Bond dispatches henchmen with practiced skill
    Gadget from Q Branch
    Quip from Bond
    Bond Theme.

    I think if anyone were to ask me to show them five minutes of Bond it would probably be this scene.
    It really is a great scene and ALMOST perfect Bond. I really dislike the quip, it's just lame and you have to question Silva and his henchmen on their lack of thoroughness in not finding it, although that was part of the plan to get captured. Still, could've been better in that aspect.

    I agree with Thunderball, it's the best villain introduction in the series. Here's this guy who has been wreaking all this havoc on Mi6 and the final reveal isn't just an evil guy, but brings an unexpectedness and a complete story. Great stuff.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    It starts to fall apart when Bond has to shoot the bottle off Severine's head. This is just an amazingly stupid and tone-deaf scene. Any writer worth his salt would have designed it so that Bond deliberately misses Severine and then, when Silva moves to kill her, Bond overpowers him and his two goons, thereby saving Severine. THEN the helicopters arrive. The scene as it plays out is a giant WTF, one of the worst missteps in the Bond series.

    There are a couple of great moments after that -- the destruction of Skyfall has a kind of hypnotic allure -- but there are too many stupid things that keep it from being a classic. But again, I would much rather watch it than ANY of the Brosnan films.

    I think there was just enough Severine. M is the Bond female companion in SF. Severine's death is so unexpected and means so much more. She's an actual obligatory sacrificial lamb whose death means something and is felt; she's not a Ferrara or Chuck Lee.

    Agree it falls apart after the island, and even before IMO - I don't like the whole casino Komodo dragon thing. Bond against an Oddjob copy and faceless thugs, Moneypenny assist and more lame quips. Makes the QoS Slate fight that much grittier and more authentic. People take SP to task for some of its lighter moments, but the SF casino scene isn't that much different.

    Great Bond entrance into the casino, though. If anything, SF has perhaps the best character entrances in the series. And that's what makes it so frustrating for me in that it has greatness amongst the mediocre for me.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited March 2020 Posts: 616
    Thunderball wrote: »
    It’s pretty damn good and it features one of the, if not THE best villain introduction in the series. My only problem with the Dead Island sequence was the death of Severine. I absolutely love her and wish she could have stuck around at least a little longer.

    The scene is so tone-deaf it's offensive. Not only does Bond fail at saving Severine (when he clearly could've disabled his captors at an earlier point), he doesn't even seem to care that she's dead and is gloating to Silva. When the helicopters arrived and the Bond theme kicked in triumphantly, my wife turned to me and said, "We're supposed to be impressed with this?"
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    Bond had a gun to his head, so, until they relaxed their guard on him, I'm not sure how he could've disabled his captors at an earlier point??

    This scene is brutal, and shows that not everything in Bond's world goes smoothly and as planned.

    And as for not caring about Severine? what did you want @Escalus5? A Dellaaaaaaaaaaaa moment? Or a Brosnan nibbling on the bits of his dead girlfriend? Bond had to hold his s*** together in that scene-- no time to mourn Severine!

    And I'm not sure how he was gloating (unless you're talking about the latest thing from Q Branch)?

    But I'll happily bask in my tone-deafness and be impressed with this scene, as I always have.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    Posts: 616
    peter wrote: »
    But I'll happily bask in my tone-deafness and be impressed with this scene, as I always have.

    And that's your privilege. But don't try to convince me that the scene is competently made, because you and I both know it isn't.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,502
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    But I'll happily bask in my tone-deafness and be impressed with this scene, as I always have.

    And that's your privilege. But don't try to convince me that the scene is competently made, because you and I both know it isn't.

    I'm not trying to convince you of anything! I plopped down my two cents. And I do think it's an amazing scene. It's wonderfully written. Builds great tension. It was jarring. Brutal. Shows something about both characters in the game they're engaged in. I love it.
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