Saying goodbye to DC, the final scene...ideas.

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  • edited May 2019 Posts: 3,639
    Seano wrote: »
    Infrequent poster here.

    How about a play on Connery's first scene from DN, with Bond playing baccarat. He exchanges witty banter with someone at the table (whether flirty or not can depend on Madeleine's fate) including the "Bond, James Bond" line, when he's approached by a casino employee who tells him there is someone looking for him. Bond looks over his shoulder to see a nervous Tanner trying to get his attention from the lobby, then excuses himself as Connery did, "I must pass the shoe. I hope you'll forgive me, but it's most important."

    A reversion of the DN scene was basically used in CR and SF:
    • In DN, Bond arrives fully-formed and introduces himself with the inconic line. In CR, we meet Bond early in his career and see him become the character in DN, therefore the final line of that film mirrors the opening of DN.
    • Plus, the exact same idea was retrofitted into the ending of SF was Moneypenny and the new M.

    Basically, it's been done. The nostalgia tank is almost empty.

    I'm still fairly certain the idea is to kill Bond off. I'm very certain in fact. The most recent rumour in the tabloids is that Bond is poisoned but before dying gets to kill Malek.

    The final scene should just be Bond lying ambiguously waiting to die. I keep thinking about the end of Layer Cake and how provocative that final image is.

    In hindsight it's hilarious as Q kills 007:


  • Posts: 12,208
    I think him dying is definitely possible. Depends how keen they are on keeping the Craig era as its own little saga (ala Nolan's Batman) now. SP definitely seemed to be made with that in mind but obviously it didn't go down too well so maybe they will have a more open ended ending of him rejoining MI6 and going from there.

    I think we'll be able to guess once we get a trailer, which should tell us whether or not the rumours of there being a new 007 turn out to be true. Because I can't see them ending the film with Bond going back into retirement again, we've already been there and done that. But equally, they definitely won't make him losing his number a permanent thing. Even if there's a new 007 in this film, it'll be a one off, and that means an ending with Bond coming back to active service wouldn't work. Unless of course she dies, or quits, or turns out to be a villain, leaving the number available for Bond again. But I think that's unlikely. I think if that is the route they're taking, the angle will be a mentor/student sort of thing with her and Bond. Which would make him dying a much more likely option imo. Him coming back will prove that retirement isn't an option for him, so killing him off after he passes the torch (in the Craig universe, followed by a reboot obviously) seems fairly likely to me.

    I'm surprised about how conservative some fans seem to be about these rumours too. We know that it won't have any bearing on the series. If Bond dies, he'll only be dead until they reboot with a new actor. Same if he has been replaced by a new 007, it's only for the sake of one story, not a permanent thing. So I don't mind at all personally as long as this film is followed by a reboot. I'd prefer the Craig era to be its own closed off thing anyway because it's already so different. I mean, Blofeld is pretty much his brother in CraigBond's world. That's not a timeline I want them to stay in going forward.
  • Posts: 4,472
    I would actually prefer a completely normal, classic ending. Bond with the Bond girl of choice somewhere secluded. Perhaps in bed. Nothing dramatic or poetic. Yes, Craig is done, but the franchise moves on.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 2019 Posts: 5,995
    FADE IN:

    EXT. HOTEL BEACHFRONT. TROPICAL SETTING - NIGHT.

    M: It was great having Felix to work with again.

    Bond: Well, then the right people kept their jobs.

    M: Something like that... Congratulations. You were right.

    Bond: About what?

    M: About Mexico City. And now Matera.

    Bond: Sir.

    M: Bond. I need you back.

    Bond: I'll never leave.

    [Drops cutthroat razor into the sand. Straightens cuffs at each wrist. Walks away.]

    Craig Bond Will Return In
    BOND 26
    BOND 27

    Dovo-straight-razor-255x300.jpg
  • Posts: 19,339
    jobo wrote: »
    I would actually prefer a completely normal, classic ending. Bond with the Bond girl of choice somewhere secluded. Perhaps in bed. Nothing dramatic or poetic. Yes, Craig is done, but the franchise moves on.

    I totally agree @jobo...nobody else got a special send off.
  • Posts: 3,639
    barryt007 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I would actually prefer a completely normal, classic ending. Bond with the Bond girl of choice somewhere secluded. Perhaps in bed. Nothing dramatic or poetic. Yes, Craig is done, but the franchise moves on.

    I totally agree @jobo...nobody else got a special send off.

    No way.

    Even the best James Bond films have awful ‘screensaver’ endings that feel so tacked on. The ‘default setting’ is having Bond with the girl. It’s so uninspired.

    One of the things I love about the Craig era is how Eon got more inventive with the final scenes.

    If we got an ambiguous ‘death’ scene it be terrific. Plus, Fleming purists can hardly argue as it be a direct call back to the FRWL novel and to some extents the ending of YOLT.

    Plus, Craig's arc is pretty compressed and compact – it make sense to have a definitive ‘ending’. There is little else for the character to do considering:
    1. CR: The young rookie on his first mission and lerning the rules of the game.
    2. QOS: Angry and looking for revenge before maturing
    3. SF: Taking place some years later, he’s the seasoned vet living in a new world.
    4. SP: He gets to fall in love and finally realise that he can retire peacefully.
    5. Bond 25: Retired but forced back into the game. Probably with more demons and ready to die.

    If Madeline does get killed in the opening of the film. There is NO WAY they don’t kill off Bond. You can’t kill the hero’s girlfriend in the first 10 minutes only for the rest of the film to be a fun romp.

    He’s gonna die.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited May 2019 Posts: 1,684
    barryt007 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I would actually prefer a completely normal, classic ending. Bond with the Bond girl of choice somewhere secluded. Perhaps in bed. Nothing dramatic or poetic. Yes, Craig is done, but the franchise moves on.

    I totally agree @jobo...nobody else got a special send off.

    No way.

    Even the best James Bond films have awful ‘screensaver’ endings that feel so tacked on. The ‘default setting’ is having Bond with the girl. It’s so uninspired.

    One of the things I love about the Craig era is how Eon got more inventive with the final scenes.

    If we got an ambiguous ‘death’ scene it be terrific. Plus, Fleming purists can hardly argue as it be a direct call back to the FRWL novel and to some extents the ending of YOLT.

    Plus, Craig's arc is pretty compressed and compact – it make sense to have a definitive ‘ending’. There is little else for the character to do considering:
    1. CR: The young rookie on his first mission and lerning the rules of the game.
    2. QOS: Angry and looking for revenge before maturing
    3. SF: Taking place some years later, he’s the seasoned vet living in a new world.
    4. SP: He gets to fall in love and finally realise that he can retire peacefully.
    5. Bond 25: Retired but forced back into the game. Probably with more demons and ready to die.

    If Madeline does get killed in the opening of the film. There is NO WAY they don’t kill off Bond. You can’t kill the hero’s girlfriend in the first 10 minutes only for the rest of the film to be a fun romp.

    He’s gonna die.

    I may not like that idea but you summoned it up really well.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I could be wrong but didn't Boyle want to kill Bond but Craig was against it,hence why Boyle walked ?
  • Posts: 4,472
    I know seemingly "killing" Bond is in line with Fleming, but I don't really see the need for it. And it does pose a few unecessary question and problems, particularly for the more casual fans and movie goers in regards to reintroducing the character with a new actor.

    - "Is this the end of the Bond franchise? No? Ok, so...
    - "Does this mean we will have another reeboot?"
    - "Is this proof that the code name theory is correct?"

    Eon would be left with a bit of a mess to clean and many threads to tie up. I understand the motivation to create a satisfying end to Craig's story arch, but is it really worth all that?
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 49
    To be honest I'd be fine with an old school pun between Bond and whomever he ends up with, after a classic climatic battle, as they sail off into the Jamaican sunset. Camera pans out over the sea and land as the credits roll over the Goldeneye resort. Understated? Yes. Throwback. Yes. Reference to where it all started? For the die hards alone. James Bond as a character will return - definately.

    But I'll admit that's incredibly unlikely :)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 5,995
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I totally agree @jobo...nobody else got a special send off.
    Not a Bond actor, but M did.

  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 1,684
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I totally agree @jobo...nobody else got a special send off.
    Not a Bond actor, but M did.

    Interesting point, never thought about it like that
  • Posts: 10
    For me the key to Daniel's tenure is the scene with Vesper on the train were she defined what Bond was and why he was a 00. Angst ridden uncomfortable profoundly loyal to ideas not people those are my words. He is dealing in issues which end up with death and ones that profoundly affect him. Vesper, Matthis, M. Camille had to live and Severnine for me should have registered more regret. The fear I have and I have heard the guys on the pod cast say the same thing is that Madeleine will go early. I hope not and I do not think so and ideally Bond is faced with getting this one right. For me it makes sense for him to die and for once avoid the death of someone close to him. What did Lea say to the Spanish Video Jock the film has sex but it has tragedy and Cary wants to carry this Bonds story on and therefore by definition finish it. So we can look at the ending of FRWL (the book) for inspiration. Daniel has such control over the agenda I think what follows will be very secondary and that will go for Barbara and Michael. I love all of the films driven by Daniels internal Bond story but the ones that pack the heaviest punch are CR and SF. QOS and SP have broader film making issues (lack of dialogue and wrong footed humour) spring to mind but what made them work was the internal stuff and he won't let that go in the final one. Its going to be very personal Felix/Madeleine retired pulled out of retirement, who can you trust, your friend is your enemy so at the end he knows where his loyalty lies and it will be the opposite of Vesper. It has a logic and symmetry that brings the five films together in a cohesive whole.

    Sorry to step in but I am really invested in 25.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,529
    Babs won't kill off Craig's Bond. I'd go banco on that.

    Instead:

    Bond wakes up to a bell clanging. Next to him is a woman. They're in bed in Venice.

    Bond: I had the most curious dream. I was globetrotting with Mathis and left him in a dumpster, then M died, and *then* I discovered that the man behind it all was some sockless foster brother I've never met before. It was a total mess. And you were...

    Vesper (sighing): Darling, I have a confession. Le Chiffre and I, we worked for the same organization. They blackmailed me. But I'm swearing them off...for you. If you'll have me.

    Bond (grinning): I'll get us out of here. I've always wanted to spend some time in Jamaica, off the grid, for as long as we like. We have all the time in the world.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 5,995
    Not a very good one, is it.

    Lesson learned. You can't forget the past.
    g
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 10
    On the question of Mathis.

    He was part of a sequence emphasising pointless deaths. Right up until that turning point where Bond finally lets go of his anger and finally stops killing. Camille got to kill the General and Bond took revenge for Mathis (they echoed each other throughout out having started ironically with her being prevented from killing the General by Bond) and then it stops for both of them and Greene and Vespers boyfriend were spared.

    All of the deaths, including Field and Mathis, were pointless and all the responsibility of Bond, whether directly or indirectly. QOS has been noted for its level of violence much of which achieved nothing and that is the point it was meant to be pointless, that was the theme of the story outside of the Water issue, but there was no getting away from Bonds grief over Mathis which echoed his care for Vesper in the shower scene. The dumping for me was simply continuing the lack of grace and self loathing that Bond felt for the majority of the movie. It was a dreadful thing to do and emblematic of Bonds behaviour through out. Did Camille and Bond find solace again no so a very atypical angry Bond movie but as a twofer with CR now offers a really interesting and different companion piece rather than yet another formulaic Bond film.

    As an aside I thought throwing Vespers neckless in the snow like his dismissal of the interview tape at L"Americain could be viewed as disrespectful or a sign to the viewer he has moved on, whatever its ambiguous and shows Craig's Bond has been nuanced and shown vulnerability (Vesper.Mathis M) but lacks any sentimentality which brings us to Madeleine and the end game, will it be any different?

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 5,995
    The sacrificial lamb is a longtime element of the Bond film formula. The filmmakers didn't misuse it regarding Mathis or the other examples.
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 10
    I watched the Vesper arc over the last two nights and there is no doubt part of the vulnerability that has been brought to this Bond is his reaction to the death of people that mean something to him. I am more satisfied than ever that the theme of important deaths Vesper/Mathis/M are a consistent undertow to the narrative.

    Where the incredibly underrated QOS adds to the narrative is as he is preparing for a double sacrifice of himself and Camille, who begged him to (which would have closed this Bond cycle), until he eyed the fire extinguisher. Most interestingly that save comes after he has 'spared' Green. We are seeing the inconsolable grief played out and as that plays there is a nice inversion, there is no horizontal bed scene and both survive.

    We know all about M and at the top of Spectre he repeats the Green save but in a more important way, life with Madeleine rather death of Blofeld.

    If we going to play these themes out to honour the five film cycle then Leiter and Swann remain where the narrative left them with Bond. We have a female agent, some extra CIA, a Camille like character and like the early Spectre script I expect one of these characters, maybe more, to be treacherous. But we the audience will be behind the curve until it all has to come out in the third act. To have Madeleine killed in the PTS and then ignore the consequences (we know the pull its in the synopsis) makes no sense to me at this stage. After the PTS he is fishing in Jamaica that doesn't fit with a post death of Madeleine.

  • edited May 2019 Posts: 10
    The sacrificial lamb is a longtime element of the Bond film formula. The filmmakers didn't misuse it regarding Mathis or the other examples.

    I am not sure if your talking to me or your remarks are related to mine but I am well aware of the sacrificial lamb bond formula and its always been used but with more power with Dalton and Craig. I do not think the filmmakers misuse it at all with Mathis it was a perfect example of repeated deaths whilst Bond was on his way to some kind of Solace. The dump was a visual example of his feelings about this death ( an attempt to frame him which would never work so pointless)and what he was in (rage unable to sleep etc) and as Bond said to Camille, Mathis would not have minded. Put simply I am arguing all the deaths in QOS played perfectly into the underlying narrative of Bonds inconsolable grief and the "Pointless deaths" supported the arc everything he touches dies (a point made by M ++++ and Greene). They were perfectly well judged as examples of pointless death which has wrecked havoc with Bond in the summit pointless death Vesper (from Bonds POV).

    So to return to my original point how to square that circle with a sacrificial death .... of himself.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 1,755
    I want B25 to end with Bond being not able to remember his name because of the brain injuries he got during the final climax. Think about the end of CR. The opposite. Someone picks him up somewhere in the sea and asks him who he is. He doesn't know. He looks right into the camera without saying a word and that's it. That's how you "kill" Bond. Not in a Logan style.
  • Posts: 9,820
    matt_u wrote: »
    I want B25 to end with Bond being not able to remember his name because of the brain injuries he got during the final climax. Think about the end of CR. The opposite. Someone picks him up somewhere in the sea and asks him who he is. He doesn't know. He looks right into the camera without saying a word and that's it. That's how you "kill" Bond. Not in a Logan style.
    So basically a YOLT novel type ending. I definitely thought this could be an interesting way to finish as well. Maybe end exactly like the novel with Bond about to travel to try to relearn his identity. Definitely a lot more interesting and close to the source than simply killing off Bond, which would not sit well with most of us.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 1,755
    FoxRox wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I want B25 to end with Bond being not able to remember his name because of the brain injuries he got during the final climax. Think about the end of CR. The opposite. Someone picks him up somewhere in the sea and asks him who he is. He doesn't know. He looks right into the camera without saying a word and that's it. That's how you "kill" Bond. Not in a Logan style.
    So basically a YOLT novel type ending. I definitely thought this could be an interesting way to finish as well. Maybe end exactly like the novel with Bond about to travel to try to relearn his identity. Definitely a lot more interesting and close to the source than simply killing off Bond, which would not sit well with most of us.

    Yes exactly.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 378
    He walks away and disappears into the shadows. Then he truly embodies Ian Fleming's description of Bond from Moonraker, "A man that is only a silhouette"
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,529
    matt_u wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I want B25 to end with Bond being not able to remember his name because of the brain injuries he got during the final climax. Think about the end of CR. The opposite. Someone picks him up somewhere in the sea and asks him who he is. He doesn't know. He looks right into the camera without saying a word and that's it. That's how you "kill" Bond. Not in a Logan style.
    So basically a YOLT novel type ending. I definitely thought this could be an interesting way to finish as well. Maybe end exactly like the novel with Bond about to travel to try to relearn his identity. Definitely a lot more interesting and close to the source than simply killing off Bond, which would not sit well with most of us.

    Yes exactly.

    But the important part of YOLT's ending is that Bond clearly starts out on a journey to find out who he is (against Kissy's wishes). Much more active.
  • Posts: 486
    I'm surprised about how conservative some fans seem to be about these rumours too. We know that it won't have any bearing on the series. If Bond dies, he'll only be dead until they reboot with a new actor. Same if he has been replaced by a new 007, it's only for the sake of one story, not a permanent thing.

    Then he might as well die in every other film then, if it's not a permanent thing.


    This whole 'an alternative reality' stuff is for the sci-fi films. Have we really become so saturated with super-heros that James Bond now gets his plot-lines compared to Batman movies and the like?
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 10
    matt_u wrote: »
    Not in a Logan style.
    I have noticed on internet forum groups it is de rigour to offer short hand comparisons usually its by way of suggesting something isn't original. There are a cluster of recent films which all have dark twist endings but they are in the same genre (science fiction) so the same fans populate their followings. Would the average Bond fan know anything about Logan I do not know the answer but its possible the majority do not, Bourne is more likely.

    For me Daniels arc is entirely self contained and whilst a FRWL or YOLT ending has textual authority it opens up the notion of another actor moving the narrative on.

    Personally I do not want another actor picking up Daniels reins. What happened with Vesper the consequences, the loss of M and the decision to leave the service and take the B25 journey, which I believe will be very personal, should belong to Daniel alone. There just wasn't the introspection and sense of ownership of the narrative by the characters in the previous eras that this issue mattered.

    Each of Daniel's films have left an emotional mark which moved the character forward there is investment in Daniels Bond and the only time that has happened before was with OHMSS and to me there is no emotional connection between DAF and OHMSS. Tidying up OHMSS in the PTS of DAF was a by the numbers narrative, to change the subject thats why given the plot ignition of B25 the idea they will invest in Lea and just kill off her character so we know what happens after Spectre but has no impact on B25 makes no sense to me, in the Bond lite years it would but not this era. Indeed all the signs are the reverse they are setting up events to make Madeleine's involvement more significant.

    Personally I do not mind what they do (with either James or Madeleine) so long as its not mere tokenism or pandering to plot point conveyance.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,629
    I want to see the movie end with the Casino Royale-style gunbarrel sequence, though still having the traditional gunbarrel at the beginning.

    Just have a scene where Bond is completely adamant that he's out, never coming back, and then suddenly he's pulled back in because some hitman is hired to take him out. The barrel pops up, Bond spins around and BANG, blood flows down the screen.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 5,995
    Personally I do not want another actor picking up Daniels reins. What happened with Vesper the consequences, the loss of M and the decision to leave the service and take the B25 journey, which I believe will be very personal, should belong to Daniel alone.
    Dench M's death maybe.

    But to me Vesper's death is something shared across all Bonds for all time, whether or not it was shown on screen for a specific actor. It's what establishes the James Bond character, I associate it with Connery and Moore and the rest. Something simmering under the surface, Casino Royale let that out of the bag for all of them.

  • The_Bleeding_HeartThe_Bleeding_Heart Oakland, CA
    Posts: 32
    To be honest, I’d be down with Craig’s Bond and the Bond girl uttering one last “Oh James” in the final scene. We haven’t had that in a long time, which is a shame, because it’s an iconic “button” that would end the Bond films back in the day.
  • Posts: 4,241
    To be honest, I’d be down with Craig’s Bond and the Bond girl uttering one last “Oh James” in the final scene. We haven’t had that in a long time, which is a shame, because it’s an iconic “button” that would end the Bond films back in the day.

    I'd be down with that too. Highly unlikely, though.
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