Is OHMSS Better Without Sean Connery?

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  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    The OP spoke of the inability to forget Connery while watching OHMSS, and how it’s hard not to notice how Lazenby comes up short in comparison. I must therefore ask:

    Am I the only one who forgets about Connery or any other Bond actor while watching OHMSS? I’m too focused on George.

    No, Lazenby owns it. I never think about Connery while watching it.

    Same
  • DeathToSpies84DeathToSpies84 Haydock, England
    Posts: 254
    The OP spoke of the inability to forget Connery while watching OHMSS, and how it’s hard not to notice how Lazenby comes up short in comparison. I must therefore ask:

    Am I the only one who forgets about Connery or any other Bond actor while watching OHMSS? I’m too focused on George.

    I do too - As much as Connery is the best Bond, I think he wouldn’t of made OHMSS as good as what Lazenby did.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited September 2020 Posts: 2,017
    Connery is the best Bond, period.
    But I can’t imagine him (or any other Bond actor for that matter, except maybe Dalton) in this particular film.
    Lazenby not only owned the fight/action scenes but he also acquitted himself very well in the dramatic scenes. The ending alone puts him firmly in second place, behind only Sean.
    I think Lazenby would have also been great in some of Connery’s outings, particularly From Russia With Love and to a lesser extent, Thunderball.
  • Posts: 1,707
    Had Connery starred in OHMSS, I'm afraid we would have gotten more YOLT nonsense.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,948
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    Connery is the best Bond, period.
    But I can’t imagine him (or any other Bond actor for that matter, except maybe Dalton) in this particular film.

    I still honestly think Roger would've been rather good in it. His more charismatic style I think would have worked for the emotional moments, he'd have played the comedy stuff with Hilary Bray very well, and he had the 'playboy on the cote d'azur' stuff down pat. The fight scenes would have been worse.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,869
    It's an interesting discussion because as I'm sure others have mentioned, it's hard to know if the film would've been the same. I think my opinion is that if Connery had starred in the film (and the film was very much the same) during Connery's early days, then I think he would've been great, but timing wise, and considering where he was at during You Only Live Twice and what Diamonds Are Forever ended up being, I think it was better that someone else took over the role.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Even though I rank OHMSS pretty high and enjoy it, I too often think how Connery, or pretty much any actor, would have been a step up from the block of wood that is Lazenby. I honestly don’t get how he would excite anyone in the role.
  • Posts: 1,707
    Even though I rank OHMSS pretty high and enjoy it, I too often think how Connery, or pretty much any actor, would have been a step up from the block of wood that is Lazenby. I honestly don’t get how he would excite anyone in the role.

    But without Lazenby, OHMSS would have not needed to stretch the 007 formula. Yes, under different circumstances, Connery would have made it a different kind of classic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    delfloria wrote: »
    under different circumstances, Connery would have made it a different kind of classic.
    It would have been amazing IMO.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    delfloria wrote: »
    Even though I rank OHMSS pretty high and enjoy it, I too often think how Connery, or pretty much any actor, would have been a step up from the block of wood that is Lazenby. I honestly don’t get how he would excite anyone in the role.

    But without Lazenby, OHMSS would have not needed to stretch the 007 formula. Yes, under different circumstances, Connery would have made it a different kind of classic.

    That doesn’t change the fact that Lazenby is pretty wooden in OHMSS. I’m sure there would have been differences with Connery, but with Peter Hunt’s persistence in staying true to the novel I have no doubt he would have managed to come close to what he ultimately did, and Connery would have felt reinvigorated with the stronger emphasis on character like he was with the earlier films.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    The OP spoke of the inability to forget Connery while watching OHMSS, and how it’s hard not to notice how Lazenby comes up short in comparison. I must therefore ask:

    Am I the only one who forgets about Connery or any other Bond actor while watching OHMSS? I’m too focused on George.

    No, Lazenby owns it. I never think about Connery while watching it.

    Same

    +1
  • delfloria wrote: »
    Even though I rank OHMSS pretty high and enjoy it, I too often think how Connery, or pretty much any actor, would have been a step up from the block of wood that is Lazenby. I honestly don’t get how he would excite anyone in the role.

    But without Lazenby, OHMSS would have not needed to stretch the 007 formula. Yes, under different circumstances, Connery would have made it a different kind of classic.

    That doesn’t change the fact that Lazenby is pretty wooden in OHMSS. I’m sure there would have been differences with Connery, but with Peter Hunt’s persistence in staying true to the novel I have no doubt he would have managed to come close to what he ultimately did, and Connery would have felt reinvigorated with the stronger emphasis on character like he was with the earlier films.

    I think Connery would have preferred starring in OHMSS, as opposed to the more camp YOLT or DAF. He has said on record that he preferred the earlier films (FRWL in particular), so would have made the most of the material he had to work with.

    Having said that, by 1969 he was done with playing Bond, and his heart was clearly not in it anymore. Maybe we would have had a rather pedestrian Connery performance had he been in OHMSS, more aligned to the carefree portrayal of Bond in DAF or NSNA, than the edgy Bond of Dr. No and FRWL.

    I like OHMSS for what it is, as a one-off with Lazenby who physically looked better than Connery at that stage, even if his performance was more wooden.
  • Posts: 1,883
    The OP spoke of the inability to forget Connery while watching OHMSS, and how it’s hard not to notice how Lazenby comes up short in comparison. I must therefore ask:

    Am I the only one who forgets about Connery or any other Bond actor while watching OHMSS? I’m too focused on George.
    Nope. It's that good that I don't think about how Connery would've done it any more than I do watching any of the other non-Connery Bond films.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited September 2020 Posts: 776
    Personally, I think it’s better to view Lazenby on his own merits, rather than how he stacks up against Connery, no matter how difficult that might be for some. Versus Sean, sure, perhaps George is rather wooden, but taken on his own, and especially keeping the fact that he wasn’t an actor at all in mind, he excels. The story demands a lot from him, and played that vulnerability very well, and especially succeeds at convincing us (or me, anyway) how much he cares, loves, respects, and understands Tracy and just how crushed he is when she is killed. That scene at the end in particular... man, he nails it. Wooden my foot. OHMSS is a marvelous film, and Lazenby was one of those many elements that made it the film that we all love. He was a fine choice and even if you’re a Lazenby detractor, you must admit that they could’ve gone with someone a whole lot worse. Oh, and if we’re gonna measure him up against the originator, I’d say Lazenby in OHMSS > Connery in both YOLT and DAF. And I’m saying that as someone who ranks Sean at the top.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,017
    @Thunderball
    Very well put, couldn't have said it better myself.
  • edited September 2020 Posts: 3,279
    Personally, I think it’s better to view Lazenby on his own merits, rather than how he stacks up against Connery, no matter how difficult that might be for some. Versus Sean, sure, perhaps George is rather wooden, but taken on his own, and especially keeping the fact that he wasn’t an actor at all in mind, he excels. The story demands a lot from him, and played that vulnerability very well, and especially succeeds at convincing us (or me, anyway) how much he cares, loves, respects, and understands Tracy and just how crushed he is when she is killed. That scene at the end in particular... man, he nails it. Wooden my foot. OHMSS is a marvelous film, and Lazenby was one of those many elements that made it the film that we all love. He was a fine choice and even if you’re a Lazenby detractor, you must admit that they could’ve gone with someone a whole lot worse. Oh, and if we’re gonna measure him up against the originator, I’d say Lazenby in OHMSS > Connery in both YOLT and DAF. And I’m saying that as someone who ranks Sean at the top.
    I agree, and I'd add NSNA to the list of films where Lazenby surpasses Connery.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    I would’ve included NSNA but I never count it, in fact, I barely recognize its existence at all.
  • I would’ve included NSNA but I never count it, in fact, I barely recognize its existence at all.


    :))
  • Posts: 2,895
    Connery's performances in YOLT and DAF are those of someone working with non-engaging material. Saying Lazenby did better in OHMSS is really saying Lazenby had a much better role, not that Lazenby would have done better in YOLT or DAF (he wouldn't).

    Had Connery agreed to star in a Hunt-directed OHMSS, I don't have any doubt at all that he would have been engaged by the material and director and given a great performance. Connery was a superb actor and his performances in Robin and Marian and The Offence, demonstrate this beyond any doubt.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    Connery was tired of the over abundance of media attention, the paparazzi, and he wanted to move on to other things. Thus he was disinterested in YOLT. He would’ve been much the same in OHMSS, maybe even more so. The material wasn’t the problem.
  • Posts: 2,895
    Connery was tired of the over abundance of media attention, the paparazzi, and he wanted to move on to other things. Thus he was disinterested in YOLT. He would’ve been much the same in OHMSS, maybe even more so. The material wasn’t the problem.

    Yes, it was. Connery has said multiple times that gadgets were overshadowing the role of Bond--that's part of why he grew bored with the part. And part of why he did DAF was because he liked the "material"--he thought the script had a lot of humor. Connery hated being dogged by the Japanese paparazzi, but filming in a remote region of Switzerland on a mountaintop would have been a different experience. Had the producers offered Connery a better financial deal, he might have been game for OHMSS.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Also Connery made it clear he was willing to come back for OHMSS if EON gave him a salary of £1m like he demanded. They balked at that and decided to hire a male model with no acting experience because that was not only cheaper but it showed how expendable they felt their stars were.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,625
    Good points one and all, however Connery also complained about the long shooting schedules for the Bond films (and how that interfered in his signing up for other projects). Without knowing exactly how long the lead actor was required to be on set, I think that the shooting schedule for OHMSS lasted from October 1968 to May 1969 (or about 8 months). By way of comparison, I think that while the filming of YOLT started in July 1966 (and actually lasted until May 1967), Connery’s work was completed by December 1966. And during the filming of DAF, Sean made a point of praising the streamlined filming schedule of that film.

    In any case, I can’t see Connery spending weeks at Schilthorn and watching Joanna Lumley, Julie Ege, Jenny Hanley, etc. knit between takes!
  • Posts: 1,707
    There is no way that OHMSS would not have been as light and gadget laden as YOLT if Connery had starred in it. It is the very lack of Connery that forced the producers and director to find another new way to present 007. Personally, I love OHMSS just the way it is.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    delfloria wrote: »
    There is no way that OHMSS would not have been as light and gadget laden as YOLT if Connery had starred in it. It is the very lack of Connery that forced the producers and director to find another new way to present 007. Personally, I love OHMSS just the way it is.

    Can you prove that? By all accounts it was Peter Hunt that pushed for sticking to the novel, as he was owed for putting work into TB and YOLT.
  • delfloria wrote: »
    There is no way that OHMSS would not have been as light and gadget laden as YOLT if Connery had starred in it. It is the very lack of Connery that forced the producers and director to find another new way to present 007. Personally, I love OHMSS just the way it is.

    OHMSS was one of the novels they had decided to honour from the beginning, due to it being a very strong story. They originally scoured Switzerland during the filming of GF for potential locations for OHMSS, which was pencilled in to be the next one, and Richard Maibaum worked on a script at that time.

    However, Thunderball was filmed instead after the ongoing rights dispute over the novel hassle between Fleming and Kevin McClory. OHMSS was then due to follow TB, but problems with a warm Swiss winter and inadequate snow cover led to Saltzman and Broccoli postponing the film again, opting for YOLT instead.

    I love OHMSS the way it is too, but I'm not sure EON would have done a massive U turn on the script of OHMSS, had Connery decided to play the role, throwing out all the work Maibaum had originally done, and giving us a light-hearted, gadget laden, camp 70's style romp instead. There is no evidence to suggest this, but there is evidence to suggest the film would have been more or less the same, because the script was already done years before.

    Couple that with Connery dissatisfaction of the direction the Bond films were going after YOLT and it was probably EON's one bargaining chip they had left to entice Connery back one last time, to play Bond more in the old straight style, something resembling Connery's favourite Bond film - FRWL (well, other than a massive pay check). ;)

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    "Is OHMSS Better Without Sean Connery?"

    Yes.

    However, based upon his YOLT performance, Connery would have been good at playing a hypnotized patient, though.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 2020 Posts: 4,110
    I wonder what Telly Savalas thought of the overall project. Or why he didn’t come back for DAF? He could have carried the role to the end of his story arc. Would Donald Pleasence have worked for either OHMSS or DAF? So many what if’s!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I don’t know if Pleasance was asked back, but Savalas actually was offered to come back for DAF. It didn’t happen because he asked for too much money so EON looked elsewhere.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited September 2020 Posts: 13,894
    delfloria wrote: »
    There is no way that OHMSS would not have been as light and gadget laden as YOLT if Connery had starred in it. It is the very lack of Connery that forced the producers and director to find another new way to present 007. Personally, I love OHMSS just the way it is.

    I sort of agree with this. While I would swap Lazenby out for another actor, that actor most certainly isn't Sean Connery. There is no way he could have pulled of the film by this time. His Bond style (or rather what started as Terrance Youngs take on Bond, which grew more ott after FRWL) was already set in stone. Though I do think that OHMSS would have worked better as a later film for a Bond actor, rather than their debut film.
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