Something that bothers me about LALD

edited March 2014 in Bond Movies Posts: 205
...And no, it's not Sheriff Pepper. Once Kananga retreats to San Monique and Bond gets captured trying to save Solitaire, Kananga seems quite calm about the situation and even remarks that bond "has only been a minor nuissance". Am I missing something here, or isn't his plan completely ruined by now? Felix and the CIA are aware of his poppy fields at this point, even if Kananga murder Bond, what is stopping Felix and the CIA from simply storming the island and putting an end to this all? Kananga can't possibly expect to just hide inside of an underground hole for months shoveling out tons of heroin when others know he's doing this.
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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I have a few ideas about this one.

    1) The CIA may have no jurisdiction on San Monique, and as such, Kananga may believe that he's safe that way. The only thing they can do is clandestinely attack him, and he may have grounds for political movement at that point. He wouldn't necessarily have to hide, because while MI6 and the CIA know that Kananga and Mr. Big are one in the same, Mr. Big already has a reputation for being hard to find.

    2) He may have enough heroin in the US already that he might find Bond's presence insignificant.

    3) He's high.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have a few ideas about this one.

    1) The CIA may have no jurisdiction on San Monique, and as such, Kananga may believe that he's safe that way. The only thing they can do is clandestinely attack him, and he may have grounds for political movement at that point. He wouldn't necessarily have to hide, because while MI6 and the CIA know that Kananga and Mr. Big are one in the same, Mr. Big already has a reputation for being hard to find.

    2) He may have enough heroin in the US already that he might find Bond's presence insignificant.

    3) He's high.

    4) It is just a Bond film, and Mankiewicz had his finger in it.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,946
    5) Maybe Kananga knew he was screwed, but did not want to look defeated in the eyes of his enemy.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 205
    1) The CIA may have no jurisdiction on San Monique, and as such, Kananga may believe that he's safe that way. The only thing they can do is clandestinely attack him, and he may have grounds for political movement at that point. He wouldn't necessarily have to hide, because while MI6 and the CIA know that Kananga and Mr. Big are one in the same, Mr. Big already has a reputation for being hard to find.

    This is what I thought at first, but Bond remarks earlier in the film that he will "give the whole case over to Felix" to Solitaire, so it seems Felix COULD just take over. It's made even weirder by the fact they specifically let Felix live (fake calling him on the phone) so they can feed Bond to the crocodiles, despite both knowing what Kananga is up to.
    3) He's high.

    4) It is just a Bond film, and Mankiewicz had his finger in it.

    These are beginning to seem more and more likely.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    2) He may have enough heroin in the US already that he might find Bond's presence insignificant.
    Well, if we are going to actually rationalize the LALD script then this seems to be the best answer. It doesn't even seem to phase Kananga when the field is blown up. He must have a significant amount already in the US and figures that he can just grow more later. Or perhaps he's just putting on a show for Bond because he doesn't want him to know how badly he just wounded him.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    1) The CIA may have no jurisdiction on San Monique, and as such, Kananga may believe that he's safe that way. The only thing they can do is clandestinely attack him, and he may have grounds for political movement at that point. He wouldn't necessarily have to hide, because while MI6 and the CIA know that Kananga and Mr. Big are one in the same, Mr. Big already has a reputation for being hard to find.

    This is what I thought at first, but Bond remarks earlier in the film that he will "give the whole case over to Felix" to Solitaire, so it seems Felix COULD just take over. It's made even weirder by the fact they specifically let Felix live (fake calling him on the phone) so they can feed Bond to the crocodiles, despite both knowing what Kananga is up to.

    Well, at that point, Bond doesn't know that Kananga and Big are one in the same. That's actually when he finds out.
    pachazo wrote:
    2) He may have enough heroin in the US already that he might find Bond's presence insignificant.
    Well, if we are going to actually rationalize the LALD script then this seems to be the best answer. It doesn't even seem to phase Kananga when the field is blown up. He must have a significant amount already in the US and figures that he can just grow more later. Or perhaps he's just putting on a show for Bond because he doesn't want him to know how badly he just wounded him.

    It's possible. I don't know if that necessarily makes sense, but it's possible. I can't see how he'd gleefully shoot a couch with a gas pellet if he's faking it, but, hey. I personally think that he has enough heroin out of San Monique already.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    2) He may have enough heroin in the US already that he might find Bond's presence insignificant.

    That's how I see it.


  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,816
    Dr Kananga also said "the poppy is a very sturdy flower" which always kind of struck me as rather odd for what flower could withstand a series of well-placed incendiary bombs (put there by Quarrel Jr.). To me this seemed like Kananga seemed to know that the flowers had withstood most of the damage inflicted by these bombs and that is odd to say the least. Still, it's a Bond film I suppose so it doesn't really have to make sense as such, just take you long for an escapist ride for two hours, and this is especially true of the 1970s Bonds.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 5,767
    4) It is just a Bond film, and Mankiewicz had his finger in it.
    Given that I never got the idea to think about that question, I find this probable. But anyhow the question is as good an excuse as any to re-watch LALD :-).

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited March 2014 Posts: 5,080
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dr Kananga also said "the poppy is a very sturdy flower" which always kind of struck me as rather odd for what flower could withstand a series of well-placed incendiary bombs (put there by Quarrel Jr.). To me this seemed like Kananga seemed to know that the flowers had withstood most of the damage inflicted by these bombs and that is odd to say the least. Still, it's a Bond film I suppose so it doesn't really have to make sense as such, just take you long for an escapist ride for two hours, and this is especially true of the 1970s Bonds.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but maybe he was referring to the Poppy's "medicinal" properties, the fact that there will always be a demand for heroin, or that it can make quite a big bulk of money? Or perhaps it can be easily regrown?
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    I think the simplest answer is that it is a Guy Hamilton directed, Tom Manckiewicz scripted, 70's Bond film.
    For me, it's one of the lowest points of the series.
  • Posts: 1,314
    This bothers you more than the fact that a few minutes later he swells up and floats to the ceiling like a helium filled inflatable before popping?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    Matt007 wrote:
    This bothers you more than the fact that a few minutes later he swells up and floats to the ceiling like a helium filled inflatable before popping?

    With no guts or blood I might add.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,782
    It had two great Bond movie moments in this film, the stepping stones, and the best Bond chase ever land or water.

    I'm more concerned about the racial overtones in this film both from black and white perspectives. Not good. Writers, directors and indeed most of the films we consider great came from the 70s. Bond missed out for defo.

  • Posts: 14,839
    It didn't really bother me. As someone said before, his status as a head of government gave him some immunity against official actions. After Kananga had killed Bond, both the MI6 and CIA would have had to thread very carefully.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,816
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dr Kananga also said "the poppy is a very sturdy flower" which always kind of struck me as rather odd for what flower could withstand a series of well-placed incendiary bombs (put there by Quarrel Jr.). To me this seemed like Kananga seemed to know that the flowers had withstood most of the damage inflicted by these bombs and that is odd to say the least. Still, it's a Bond film I suppose so it doesn't really have to make sense as such, just take you long for an escapist ride for two hours, and this is especially true of the 1970s Bonds.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but maybe he was referring to the Poppy's "medicinal" properties, the fact that there will always be a demand for heroin, or that it can make quite a big bulk of money? Or perhaps it can be easily regrown?

    Could well be of course, but I'm far from being a narcotics expert (!) so it's anyone's guess really. It's so vague that one could put almost any spin on its meaning and still get people who would agree with you.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,399
    I'm more concerned about the racial overtones in this film both from black and white perspectives. Not good. Writers, directors and indeed most of the films we consider great came from the 70s. Bond missed out for defo.

    yes, this film is pure camp.... but it was also groundbreaking - not many mainstream films in that day and age of filmmaking had used that many black actors in important and powerful roles in the movie - they would normally be minor walk on characters, background characters and so on.... During this time you had The Black Panthers and other big racial movements going on, so the choice to cast a predominantly black cast - and more over make them the villains was a bit bold... I think the racial overtones are a bit blown out of proportion. I understand it to a degree, and in certain aspects where characters are played a bit to closely to stereotypes... but in other areas, I think the black characters such as Tee Hee and especially Dr. Kananga were given very strong and authoritative personalities - and as such they weren't treated in a Sambo or Step n Fetch matter - but taken very seriously......... i can't say much for Baron Samedi as all he did was laugh lol..... the only real racial and bigoted character in the entire film is Sherriff Pepper - and by making his character into a dumb hick who is constantly being outsmarted or thwarted, it makes whatever he says or does devoid of any real meaning - his character is almost the argument against racism and bigotry, and shows just how dumb people look when they act that way.. I don't want to give Manckiewicz too much credit here - but there is that possibility of more meaning behind that ridiculous character than just pure comic relief..

    but there was an interview with Yaphet Kotto somewhere, maybe on one of the DVDs where he talks about not only the racial overtones, but how revolutionary it was for the time that big Hollywood production would cast so many black actors - he credits the film for breaking him out of that blaxploitation mold and making him a star in both Hollywood and TV.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Benny wrote:
    I think the simplest answer is that it is a Guy Hamilton directed, Tom Manckiewicz scripted, 70's Bond film.
    For me, it's one of the lowest points of the series.
    I can easily forgive the film a lot of things, simply because the action is built up so well it makes me forget to think about anything else.

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    boldfinger wrote:
    Benny wrote:
    I think the simplest answer is that it is a Guy Hamilton directed, Tom Manckiewicz scripted, 70's Bond film.
    For me, it's one of the lowest points of the series.
    I can easily forgive the film a lot of things, simply because the action is built up so well it makes me forget to think about anything else.

    Don't get me wrong I enjoy LALD. I think it's got a great rewatchability, and Roger Moore gives a great debut performance. But the Hamilton films on the whole are poor Bond films imo.
    LALD is one of his best. Sandwiched between two of the worst films of the series.
  • Posts: 908
    boldfinger wrote:
    Benny wrote:
    I think the simplest answer is that it is a Guy Hamilton directed, Tom Manckiewicz scripted, 70's Bond film.
    For me, it's one of the lowest points of the series.
    I can easily forgive the film a lot of things, simply because the action is built up so well it makes me forget to think about anything else.

    And most of all - it is simply great entertaining fun! LALD is one of the very few Bond flics,that would have also been a great success as stand alone film.
  • Posts: 2,400
    I think LALD is Hamilton's best film.
  • Posts: 7,653
    All this talk gave me a need to rewatch LALD, honky.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    SaintMark wrote:
    All this talk gave me a need to rewatch LALD, honky.

    Go ahead, nigger. Have a blast.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I watched LALD last Sunday, and I thoroughly enjoyed it! Great score, great action and great fun. A solid entry in the franchise, with a great performance from Rog, Kotto, Holder and Seymour.
  • Posts: 2,400
    SaintMark wrote:
    All this talk gave me a need to rewatch LALD, honky.

    Go ahead, nigger. Have a blast.

    Both of you. Completely unacceptable. If I was a mod I'd be giving at least warnings. In no context does that word belong anywhere, certainly not these forums.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    To defend myself, I would like to point out that I used a Fleming word to reply to his racist remark, although I do not think he meant any harm.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    And of course he used a Mankiewicz remark. You read too much in to it, but by all means remove it if it is too much for some.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Ludovico wrote:
    It didn't really bother me. As someone said before, his status as a head of government gave him some immunity against official actions. After Kananga had killed Bond, both the MI6 and CIA would have had to thread very carefully.

    I think this too. Kananga had diplomatic status. He was a powerful person in San Monique. Bond didn't care though. He was being his blunt instrument self, exercising License To Kill. Bond was Kananga's serious enemy.
    Even if Kananga hadn't provoked Bond into coming after him, Bond did seem to think Leiter could clean the whole mess up with official action. Hmmm. Maybe Bond was wrong.
    Also the poppy plants are quite sturdy. Considering Kananga seemed to have free reign in San Monique, he could have presumably eventually salvaged the field or planted elsewhere.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Bond villains have a notorious habit of seeming rather untouchable in the face of danger; as @QBranch brought up, more than likely, it was just a front so that Bond would be fooled into thinking that Kananga was "in the lead".
  • Posts: 14,839
    timmer wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    It didn't really bother me. As someone said before, his status as a head of government gave him some immunity against official actions. After Kananga had killed Bond, both the MI6 and CIA would have had to thread very carefully.

    I think this too. Kananga had diplomatic status. He was a powerful person in San Monique. Bond didn't care though. He was being his blunt instrument self, exercising License To Kill. Bond was Kananga's serious enemy.
    Even if Kananga hadn't provoked Bond into coming after him, Bond did seem to think Leiter could clean the whole mess up with official action. Hmmm. Maybe Bond was wrong.
    Also the poppy plants are quite sturdy. Considering Kananga seemed to have free reign in San Monique, he could have presumbably eventually salvaged the field or planted elsewhere.

    And Bond dead, what would MI6 and CIA really have against Kananga? Even if they could send people inspecting San Monique in official capacity, which is far from straightforward and politically very risky, whose to say these poppy fields belong to him? This is a worse case scenario of course. Because they'd have little to no evidence. Mr Big and Kananga are two unrelated persons, 007 is dead, his body digesting in a shark's stomach (that is if they can find out what happened to him at all), etc. I am sure Felix Leiter would want to see what happened to his best friend and eventually seek revenge, but he'd have little to go on, especially since the death of a 00 agent would make both UK and US governments careful, if not timorous. When Bond is prisoner, he is in a very, very tight spot, on the other hand Kananga has a very good hand.
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