It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • Notice how this film still stands.
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    This^^ Pretty much spot on for me.

    I third this. It has moved from blech to meh for me.
  • Well at least it's the one Bind movie of this era which hasn't relied as much on product placement....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Well at least it's the one Bind movie of this era which hasn't relied as much on product placement....

    It had around £50m of product placement, about £15m more than CR and (I think) £5m more than SF.
  • Posts: 12,271
    QOS has been on my mind a lot again. I really hope someday this film can enjoy a mass reappraisal, because there is so much good stuff. Been listening to the soundtrack a lot, which is one of my favorites in the series.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    QOS has been on my mind a lot again. I really hope someday this film can enjoy a mass reappraisal, because there is so much good stuff. Been listening to the soundtrack a lot, which is one of my favorites in the series.

    Isn't it a sad but well depthed soundtrack? It's captured that air of melancholy for Bond. Apparently it was done after principal photography was done, similar to the upcoming NTTD film. But of course, David Arnold's approach is more detailed and contoured than the simplistic sounds of Thomas Newman who loved percussions and also the simple tones of Hans Zimmer who just likes to emphasize one note strongly and lets that define the entire ditty or whatever he likes to call it.
  • Posts: 12,271
    FoxRox wrote: »
    QOS has been on my mind a lot again. I really hope someday this film can enjoy a mass reappraisal, because there is so much good stuff. Been listening to the soundtrack a lot, which is one of my favorites in the series.

    Isn't it a sad but well depthed soundtrack? It's captured that air of melancholy for Bond. Apparently it was done after principal photography was done, similar to the upcoming NTTD film. But of course, David Arnold's approach is more detailed and contoured than the simplistic sounds of Thomas Newman who loved percussions and also the simple tones of Hans Zimmer who just likes to emphasize one note strongly and lets that define the entire ditty or whatever he likes to call it.

    Yes - it’s a fantastic score. I like Newman and Zimmer in general too, but Arnold’s work on CR and QOS are basically just second to Barry IMO for the series. I really particularly love The Palio, No Interest in Dominic Greene, Night at the Opera, Camille’s Story, and Perla de las Dunas.
  • FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    QOS has been on my mind a lot again. I really hope someday this film can enjoy a mass reappraisal, because there is so much good stuff. Been listening to the soundtrack a lot, which is one of my favorites in the series.

    Isn't it a sad but well depthed soundtrack? It's captured that air of melancholy for Bond. Apparently it was done after principal photography was done, similar to the upcoming NTTD film. But of course, David Arnold's approach is more detailed and contoured than the simplistic sounds of Thomas Newman who loved percussions and also the simple tones of Hans Zimmer who just likes to emphasize one note strongly and lets that define the entire ditty or whatever he likes to call it.

    Yes - it’s a fantastic score. I like Newman and Zimmer in general too, but Arnold’s work on CR and QOS are basically just second to Barry IMO for the series. I really particularly love The Palio, No Interest in Dominic Greene, Night at the Opera, Camille’s Story, and Perla de las Dunas.

    Arnold really stressed the romanticism in CR and the utter depression of loss in QoS. Expressionism.

    Hans Zimmer....too simplistic. One key note or a repetitive few notes and that's it...he hopefully can adapt to the times and not think this is still 2008 or the 2010s where he could get away with the same ditties. Every film he scores sounds like the same stuff.
  • When you go into this film knowing it's going to be about Bond having to deal with no Vesper being around, you appreciate it more.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    QOS has been on my mind a lot again. I really hope someday this film can enjoy a mass reappraisal, because there is so much good stuff. Been listening to the soundtrack a lot, which is one of my favorites in the series.

    Isn't it a sad but well depthed soundtrack? It's captured that air of melancholy for Bond. Apparently it was done after principal photography was done, similar to the upcoming NTTD film. But of course, David Arnold's approach is more detailed and contoured than the simplistic sounds of Thomas Newman who loved percussions and also the simple tones of Hans Zimmer who just likes to emphasize one note strongly and lets that define the entire ditty or whatever he likes to call it.

    Yes - it’s a fantastic score. I like Newman and Zimmer in general too, but Arnold’s work on CR and QOS are basically just second to Barry IMO for the series. I really particularly love The Palio, No Interest in Dominic Greene, Night at the Opera, Camille’s Story, and Perla de las Dunas.

    Arnold really stressed the romanticism in CR and the utter depression of loss in QoS. Expressionism.

    Hans Zimmer....too simplistic. One key note or a repetitive few notes and that's it...he hopefully can adapt to the times and not think this is still 2008 or the 2010s where he could get away with the same ditties. Every film he scores sounds like the same stuff.

    I must admit I do enjoy Zimmer's scores but in terms of Bond music Arnold's scores for CR and QoS are easily the best since Barry IMO.

    There are a few members on here that seem to think the Zimmer score for NTTD is magnificent without hearing a single note! Talk about set yourself up for disappointment!



  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I remember thinking in 2008 that this film would most likely get the kind of appreciation something like LTK did, both films are still pretty polarizing, but have their passionate fans. I do think unlike LTK, QOS almost benefits from not actually being Craig’s second and final film.

    Funnily, I ranked both films side by side in my lower tier top ten. However, they’ve both gone down in my rankings, somewhere in the middle of the teens. They just don’t give the kind of fulfillment I want from a Bond film. Interestingly, they sort of could be the true ultimate revenge film if you combined their strengths . LTK could use the production values of QOS, while QOS could give a bit more refinement in the writings of the characters like LTK’s.

    I do wish I had access to the raw footage just to re-edit the whole thing. It may have THE most appalling editing method I’ve ever seen. It obviously wanted to get in on that Bourne style but Forster is no Greengrass.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 11,425
    Didnt QOS actually use the same editor as Bourne? I seem to remember there being a few crossovers from the Bourne team.

    Yes there are a couple of scenes where the editing is confusing, but overall I think this is overstated.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    Didnt QOS actually use the same editor as Bourne? I seem to remember there being a few crossovers from the Bourne team.

    Yes there are a couple of scenes where the editing is confusing, but overall I think this is overstated.

    No, second unit director. The editing is average but not as bad as it’s made out. There’s plenty more wrong with it.
  • Folks, if you're looking for angormulaic Bond movie, don't we already have 95% of the series for that?


    Bond movies have the ability to stay recent-looking for years at a time too.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 1,081


    By far one of my favourite moments of QOS. Bond at his most brutal. Craig's outfit here is also classic Bond.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    I’m glad to see a reappraisal of QOS by many. It’s a pretty good movie. I suspect that if it had a different director and the editing wasn’t the way it is, the movie would have been more liked from the start.

    Now, I’m just feeling around for that book to pull which reveals a small, secret hideaway for those who like SP. So far I’m alone. 😅
  • I’m glad to see a reappraisal of QOS by many. It’s a pretty good movie. I suspect that if it had a different director and the editing wasn’t the way it is, the movie would have been more liked from the start.

    Now, I’m just feeling around for that book to pull which reveals a small, secret hideaway for those who like SP. So far I’m alone. 😅

    You're not alone. SP paid many homages and was a direct sequel to QoS. I liked it too.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,042
    I’m glad to see a reappraisal of QOS by many. It’s a pretty good movie. I suspect that if it had a different director and the editing wasn’t the way it is, the movie would have been more liked from the start.

    Now, I’m just feeling around for that book to pull which reveals a small, secret hideaway for those who like SP. So far I’m alone. 😅

    You're not alone. SP paid many homages and was a direct sequel to QoS. I liked it too.
    Keep looking, @Thunderball. There's plenty to like and love in Spectre, it's not a lost point.

  • QoS had the writers strike going against it and also the fact that the film was too short for a Bond film. At least with films like NTTD, the gap in years are made up for with better movie quality that takes it's time to allow characters to develop better.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 1,280
    A Bond movie like QoS but a virus like coronavirus would be the center of the plot. It wouldn't rely on out of this world and OTT effects but would carry that aura or air of melancholy and make a statement about society. It would be a smart film and allow it to become an Oscar contender if done with some arthouse visuals to help. That would be a good next Bond movie after NTTD.

    The thing about QoS which brought out its emotions was the music.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Interesting ranking here. QOS 11th, above SP and SF. QOS gets a lot of praise. Have to see this is one of the best movie crtitics' rankings I've seen online.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/james-bond-films-list-best-worst-007-ranking-no-time-to-die-delay-a9377531.html
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 1,280
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit. If those films had been a little more loyal in owning their predecessors better, they wouldn't divide audiences and their subsequent films would have made even more money.
  • It's true....if you don't believe me, look at the Box office numbers...the down to earth and realistic gritty films get better with time and end up saving the series' interest while the subsequent ones tend to make more money but end up disappointing or getting worse with time....just look at how polarizing OP is....or how bad DAF is. Or how it seems there aren't quite as many fans of GE as onc thought before....same with SF....each of thse films failed to be good sequels to their direct predecessors.
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    It's true....if you don't believe me, look at the Box office numbers...the down to earth and realistic gritty films get better with time and end up saving the series' interest while the subsequent ones tend to make more money but end up disappointing or getting worse with time....just look at how polarizing OP is....or how bad DAF is. Or how it seems there aren't quite as many fans of GE as onc thought before....same with SF....each of thse films failed to be good sequels to their direct predecessors.
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit

    GE and SF are significant cornerstones of the franchise. QoS isn’t. Personal taste is one thing but to deny the facts is pure ignorance.
  • They're cornerstones because they made lots of money but their predecessors have aged better than they have over the years. Those movies were celebrated well during their time and if it wasn't for the predecessors, fans wouldn't made it to theatres anticipating something good.
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's true....if you don't believe me, look at the Box office numbers...the down to earth and realistic gritty films get better with time and end up saving the series' interest while the subsequent ones tend to make more money but end up disappointing or getting worse with time....just look at how polarizing OP is....or how bad DAF is. Or how it seems there aren't quite as many fans of GE as onc thought before....same with SF....each of thse films failed to be good sequels to their direct predecessors.
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit

    GE and SF are significant cornerstones of the franchise. QoS isn’t. Personal taste is one thing but to deny the facts is pure ignorance.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,490
    My love for this film since opening night 2008 is no real surprise - it still sits in third place for me upon my last ranking. It absolutely hits the spot every single time I watch it.
  • Posts: 1,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Interesting ranking here. QOS 11th, above SP and SF. QOS gets a lot of praise. Have to see this is one of the best movie crtitics' rankings I've seen online.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/james-bond-films-list-best-worst-007-ranking-no-time-to-die-delay-a9377531.html

    Interesting list. I like that it doesn't bow to the overpraised entries like GE and SF and there are some refreshing takes - Lazenby is totally fine and DAF is recognized for being not serious. Others are head scratchers - TB has a hard to remember plot? It's one of the most clear and direct. And some of the choices of villains seems off: Anthony Zerbe, Donald Pleasance, Yaphet Kotto and Curt Jurgens are praised, while Robert Davi is just okay?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    They're cornerstones because they made lots of money but their predecessors have aged better than they have over the years. Those movies were celebrated well during their time and if it wasn't for the predecessors, fans wouldn't made it to theatres anticipating something good.
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's true....if you don't believe me, look at the Box office numbers...the down to earth and realistic gritty films get better with time and end up saving the series' interest while the subsequent ones tend to make more money but end up disappointing or getting worse with time....just look at how polarizing OP is....or how bad DAF is. Or how it seems there aren't quite as many fans of GE as onc thought before....same with SF....each of thse films failed to be good sequels to their direct predecessors.
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit

    GE and SF are significant cornerstones of the franchise. QoS isn’t. Personal taste is one thing but to deny the facts is pure ignorance.
    They're cornerstones because they made lots of money but their predecessors have aged better than they have over the years. Those movies were celebrated well during their time and if it wasn't for the predecessors, fans wouldn't made it to theatres anticipating something good.
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's true....if you don't believe me, look at the Box office numbers...the down to earth and realistic gritty films get better with time and end up saving the series' interest while the subsequent ones tend to make more money but end up disappointing or getting worse with time....just look at how polarizing OP is....or how bad DAF is. Or how it seems there aren't quite as many fans of GE as onc thought before....same with SF....each of thse films failed to be good sequels to their direct predecessors.
    Like the director said, it gets better with time. Also, notice when films like OHMSS, FYEO, LTK, and QOS release, they keep the franchise alive with their down to earthiness and with fans wanting a follow up although the follow ups tend to not age well by not following the same story or serving as direct sequels.

    GE by today's standards wouldn't really fix the issue especially with the video game style of musical score and watered down tone from Dalton's style of grit

    GE and SF are significant cornerstones of the franchise. QoS isn’t. Personal taste is one thing but to deny the facts is pure ignorance.

    It’s nothing to do with the money they made, it’s to do with legacy. Both GE and SF captured the zeitgeist, something QoS singularly failed to do.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Film critics rarely understand Bond and regularly quote things that aren't accurate like the PTS are totally unconnected to the rest of the film, I think we dispelled that claim quite recently.

    It has become very fashionable to rag on SF, its like the turnaround of TDK.

    We'll see but I'm willing to bet SF will hold up and no QOS won't be ageing better.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I get it. Movies like OHMSS, LTK, and QOS are sort of the underdogs of the franchise that were never embraced as much as other Bond entries when they were originally released, and that makes fans of those specific films a lot more passionate when it comes to defending those films.

    But when you have to knock other Bond films in order to build up your favorites, you're not really making much of case, especially when you imply that GE and SF are of the same quality as OP and DAF.
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