64th Eurovision Song Contest (May, 2019)

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  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited October 5 Posts: 13,067
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    This is obviously the greatest ever Eurovision entry from 2008. It's a travesty that it didn't go on to win!


    Now why did it not win? Why did it not even qualify?

    I think the current state of Brexit in a way is reflected in how the UK (and Ireland) think about Eurovision.

    Against ridiculous examples like Ireland that basically self-eliminated itself, I can come up with more serious attempts, that even went on to win, that reflect today's popular music quite nicely, but I won't. It's useless :-).

    The Republic of Ireland was quite simply taking the piss out of Eurovision as only the Irish can. It was fair enough as the former Eastern European bloc countries (cleverly referenced at the end by Dustin the Turkey to try to win favour with them!) had made a bigger farce out of an already farcical contest. This referenced the political voting that went on in the contest. So it was quite right for them to stick two fingers up to it in that fashion. I've never watched Eurovision and I never will. I'm not even sure why the UK and Ireland bother to take part in it any more. Perhaps there should be a Brexit from Eurovision as well. I'd certainly vote for it!

    Yes, but that was 10 years ago. The big fact now is that the former Eastern European bloc countries are slowly fading a bit with regard to success. The 'classic' Eurovision nations, nations that have been participating since the 1950's to 1970's, are busy with a clear push to a return to its former glory. Their results have been steadily improving since the re-introduction of juries in 2009 (the era Dustin the Turkey was taking the piss off, was the 100% televoting era 1998 - 2008):

    Below chart shows that:
    h9xLKyY.png
    DR6krLy.png
    --> The more green / dark-green, the more succesful a nation in a particular contest.
    --> The more white to pink-ish, the more unsuccesful a nation is.
    --> Red is dead last.

    So look at this year's contest in Tel Aviv, Israel. From the former Soviet nations, only Azerbaijan and Russia managed to enter the Top 10. Which is a huge difference from the era you @Dragonpol so eagerly despise, and which is behind us. Back in 2007 around 7 former Soviet nations ended in the Top 10. So it seems you're a bit stuck in the past.

    Top 10 this year ('classic' Eurovision nations and nations with a Western-style culture):
    - 1st: The Netherlands ('founding father')
    - 2nd: Italy ('founding father')
    - 4th: Switzerland ('founding father')
    - 5th: Sweden
    - 6th: Norway
    - 9th: Australia
    - 10th: Iceland

    Top 10 in 2018 ('classic' Eurovision nations and nations with a Western-style culture):
    - 1st: Israel
    - 2nd: Cyprus
    - 3rd: Austria
    - 4th: Germany ('founding father')
    - 5th: Italy ('founding father')
    - 7th: Sweden
    - 9th: Denmark

    Top 10 in 2017 ('classic' Eurovision nations and nations with a Western-style culture):
    - 1st: Portugal
    - 4th: Belgium ('founding father')
    - 5th: Sweden
    - 6th: Italy ('founding father')
    - 9th: Australia
    - 10th: Norway

    So, my message to Ireland and the United Kingdom would be: stop treating Eurovision as a show of ridiculousness, stop think in such a protectionist way (us vs. them, islanders vs. rest of Europe). And instead be more receptive to positivity, with an international, self-critical approach, also towards international music shows, and simply bring quality to the contest...or in essence stuff that appeals to everyone in Europe, music that people want to vote for. Or otherwise, like Brexit, go away, stop participating and cancel your European Broadcasting Union-membership entirely. But the changes that the BBC and RTE made a few weeks ago are a step in the good direction and show they want to try sending something better to Eurovision.

    I've always been a bit stuck in the past - a sort of elegant anachronism. I was however aware that the voting system had changed, but that still doesn't detract from what Ireland were highlighting with Dustin the Turkey's entry. As I said, it's not my sort of thing at all and I obviously bow to your superior knowledge of Eurovision, which is extensive.

    The farcical voting scandals is enough to put me off the contest and it still leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many I am sure. It is much the same thing as the distaste for the EU within the UK. Eurovision is thankfully still viewed with great derision in the UK and Ireland and I can't see that changing any time soon. It's surely the worst example of soft power any European nation can exhibit.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 297
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)

  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited October 5 Posts: 13,067
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.

    Well I don't understand why Israel takes part in Eurovision at all but I'm sure you'll enlighten me in that matter as you did with Austraila's participation in the contest. Their participation is unfair to me by itself as they are simply not European nations! The clue's in the name - Eurovision!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Ghost office
    Posts: 34,396
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.

    Well I don't understand why Israel takes part in Eurovision at all but I'm sure you'll enlighten me in that matter as you did with Austraila's participation in the contest. Their participation is unfair to me by itself as they are simply not European nations! The clue's in the name - Eurovision!

    Morocco participated in the late 70s, as they were part of the EBU.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.

    Well I don't understand why Israel takes part in Eurovision at all but I'm sure you'll enlighten me in that matter as you did with Austraila's participation in the contest. Their participation is unfair to me by itself as they are simply not European nations! The clue's in the name - Eurovision!

    Morocco participated in the late 70s, as they were part of the EBU.

    I see. So the craziness doesn't end with Israel and Australia being allowed to take part?! :D
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.

    Well I don't understand why Israel takes part in Eurovision at all but I'm sure you'll enlighten me in that matter as you did with Austraila's participation in the contest. Their participation is unfair to me by itself as they are simply not European nations! The clue's in the name - Eurovision!

    You're now talking sheer nonsense @Dragonpol. If it was you, you would even prefer to stop Israel participating in the Eurovision Song Contest. Even when that means erasing decades of Eurovision history from a nation that contributed to the contest with wonderful happy music and four legendary victories. There's no explanation needed for Israel. You have to swallow it, and stop bringing discord with certain Eurovision participants who have a true compassionate heart for the contest.

    Back in the 1990's no one criticized Israel. But if now people like you criticize Israel for being in the contest, then this only exists from a sheer protectionist, neo-nationalist attitude that is especially returning in the United Kingdom. Again, swallow Israel's participation now and go look for yourself on Wikipedia :-).

    Down below a few wonderful Israëli Eurovision classics:

    1973: Ilanit with 'Ey Sham', 4th place


    1978: Izhar Cohen & The Alphabeta with 'A-Ba-Ni-Bi', 1st place


    1979: Milk And Honey with 'Hallelujah', 1st place


    1983: Ofra Haza with 'Hi', 2nd place:


    1995: Liora with 'Amen', 8th place:


    1998: Dana International with 'Diva', 1st place:


    PS: Eurovision participation is arranged by EBU (Associate) Membership, not by strict continental borders. Has been the case since 1956. So stop whining, accept it and move on :-). Oowh, and in the case of the UK. Try send something like this again. This was a worthy winner for the UK. And stop fingerpointing to other nations. Fingerpoint to your own recent entries which were uttermost dire. This is not:

    1997: Katrina & The Waves with 'Love Shine A Light', 1st place:
  • BennyBenny Perth, Western AustraliaModerator
    Posts: 9,207
    @GertGettler I know you love Eurovision with all your heart. And credit too you for that, but the simple fact is, that most people really don't care about this song contest.
    Israel, Australia etc might be popular Euro participants, but the contest as a whole seems to be seen as a joke amongst most.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 297
    I'm in my 20s and I still hear this song quite often on radio/TV/films etc.

  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Benny wrote: »
    @GertGettler I know you love Eurovision with all your heart. And credit too you for that, but the simple fact is, that most people really don't care about this song contest.
    Israel, Australia etc might be popular Euro participants, but the contest as a whole seems to be seen as a joke amongst most.

    Yeah well, that's clear obviously. But why posting then? You should speak for everyone as a moderator, not just those who despise it and mock it. Even if these mockers are a majority on a predominantly male-driven, testosterone-inducing forum 🙂. Also, try to find another European entertainment show that united the continent in front of TV for one Saturday a year.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    QQ7 wrote: »
    I'm in my 20s and I still hear this song quite often on radio/TV/films etc.


    Lovely winner. By the way, you are from Croatia I see. Zagreb has always been the musical heart of Yugoslavia, also when Yugoslavia was still participating as one union nation. You got to remember the Yugoslavia entries from 1968, 1983 (4th), 1987, 1988, 1989 (winner!) and 1990. But also the great entries from Serbia from 2004 (2nd) and 2007 (winner). Or Croatia 1996 (4th), 1998 (5th) and 1999 (4th).
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited October 6 Posts: 13,067
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't be too sad Brits, at least arguably the most famous Eurovision song ever is glorifying your history :)


    The UK and Ireland won it a few times too, though in the distant past of course when it was a fairer contest. In that sense, the history book is not always repeating itself...

    So when Germany, Austria, Portugal, Israel, Sweden and The Netherlands won in recent years it was 'less fair' than in the 00's? I don't follow 🤔.

    Well I don't understand why Israel takes part in Eurovision at all but I'm sure you'll enlighten me in that matter as you did with Austraila's participation in the contest. Their participation is unfair to me by itself as they are simply not European nations! The clue's in the name - Eurovision!

    You're now talking sheer nonsense @Dragonpol. If it was you, you would even prefer to stop Israel participating in the Eurovision Song Contest. Even when that means erasing decades of Eurovision history from a nation that contributed to the contest with wonderful happy music and four legendary victories. There's no explanation needed for Israel. You have to swallow it, and stop bringing discord with certain Eurovision participants who have a true compassionate heart for the contest.

    Back in the 1990's no one criticized Israel. But if now people like you criticize Israel for being in the contest, then this only exists from a sheer protectionist, neo-nationalist attitude that is especially returning in the United Kingdom. Again, swallow Israel's participation now and go look for yourself on Wikipedia :-).

    Down below a few wonderful Israëli Eurovision classics:

    1973: Ilanit with 'Ey Sham', 4th place


    1978: Izhar Cohen & The Alphabeta with 'A-Ba-Ni-Bi', 1st place


    1979: Milk And Honey with 'Hallelujah', 1st place


    1983: Ofra Haza with 'Hi', 2nd place:


    1995: Liora with 'Amen', 8th place:


    1998: Dana International with 'Diva', 1st place:


    PS: Eurovision participation is arranged by EBU (Associate) Membership, not by strict continental borders. Has been the case since 1956. So stop whining, accept it and move on :-). Oowh, and in the case of the UK. Try send something like this again. This was a worthy winner for the UK. And stop fingerpointing to other nations. Fingerpoint to your own recent entries which were uttermost dire. This is not:

    1997: Katrina & The Waves with 'Love Shine A Light', 1st place:

    Well that's fair enough and I humbly submit that I've learned something about Eurovision from you, @GertGettler. You obviously know your subject and I can respect that. Please believe me when I say that I have no desire whatsoever to get into a "beef" with you about Eurovision participants. You've explained that it's not bound by geographical barriers so now I understand. I'm glad I posted in this thread as I learned a few things that were new to me. Also know that I am very much pro-Israel and not opposed to it as a country or people. I'm also not in any way a neo-nationalist. Unionism is the opposite of nationalism on the island that is my home.

    It is sad that the UK last won the contest in 1997 and I remember that entry. Another UK entry that I recall was Javine's 'Touch My Fire' (2005):



    I also recall the awful 2003 entry by Jemini:



    And Daz Simpson's 'Teenage Life' from 2006:



    That's all I can remember as I don't really watch TV much any more.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Interesting @Dragonpol . You recall the most dire, groce junk entries from the UK in Eurovision :)) .

    I think the last real good UK entry was this one. After that it all went downhill for the UK, including the 'Donald Trump' of Eurovision: Terry wogan :-P. This was a deserved 2nd place:

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "Better cold with them on, than dead with them off, I always say."Moderator
    edited October 6 Posts: 10,788
    The Eurovision is the Donald Trump of Eurovision. But this one is dedicated to you, @GertGettler, Sir Terry over to you...



    =))

  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    The link doesn't work in my country.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited October 6 Posts: 13,067
    Interesting @Dragonpol . You recall the most dire, groce junk entries from the UK in Eurovision :)) .

    I think the last real good UK entry was this one. After that it all went downhill for the UK, including the 'Donald Trump' of Eurovision: Terry wogan :-P. This was a deserved 2nd place:

    Yes, I admit they were pretty woeful (though I did like Javine's entry somewhat at the time, probably because I liked some of her other songs). They were the only ones I remember seeing though, so that's all I have to go on. Dustin the Turkey's selection and entry for Ireland in 2008 was probably the last Eurovision thing that I watched and (for me at least) it was a good and funny one to end on! "Did we win?" :))
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Interesting @Dragonpol . You recall the most dire, groce junk entries from the UK in Eurovision :)) .

    I think the last real good UK entry was this one. After that it all went downhill for the UK, including the 'Donald Trump' of Eurovision: Terry wogan :-P. This was a deserved 2nd place:

    Yes, I admit they were pretty woeful (though I did like Javine's entry somewhat at the time, probably because I liked some of her other songs). They were the only ones I remember seeing though, so that's all I have to go on. Dustin the Turkey's selection and entry for Ireland in 2008 was probably the last Eurovision thing that I watched and (for me at least) it was a good and funny one to end on! "Did we win?" :))

    Have you actually watched the recent contests? Not the ones from the previous decade (00's) but this decade (10's)?
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited October 6 Posts: 13,067
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Interesting @Dragonpol . You recall the most dire, groce junk entries from the UK in Eurovision :)) .

    I think the last real good UK entry was this one. After that it all went downhill for the UK, including the 'Donald Trump' of Eurovision: Terry wogan :-P. This was a deserved 2nd place:

    Yes, I admit they were pretty woeful (though I did like Javine's entry somewhat at the time, probably because I liked some of her other songs). They were the only ones I remember seeing though, so that's all I have to go on. Dustin the Turkey's selection and entry for Ireland in 2008 was probably the last Eurovision thing that I watched and (for me at least) it was a good and funny one to end on! "Did we win?" :))

    Have you actually watched the recent contests? Not the ones from the previous decade (00's) but this decade (10's)?

    No, I haven't. I did very briefly see a bit of the 2019 contest before switching over. They were reading out the scores for a particilar entry. So all of my memories of UK entries to the Eurovision Song Contest are therefore from the now receding past.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 297
    QQ7 wrote: »
    I'm in my 20s and I still hear this song quite often on radio/TV/films etc.


    Lovely winner. By the way, you are from Croatia I see. Zagreb has always been the musical heart of Yugoslavia, also when Yugoslavia was still participating as one union nation. You got to remember the Yugoslavia entries from 1968, 1983 (4th), 1987, 1988, 1989 (winner!) and 1990. But also the great entries from Serbia from 2004 (2nd) and 2007 (winner). Or Croatia 1996 (4th), 1998 (5th) and 1999 (4th).

    Wow nice Eurovision history knowledge.

    Interestingly enough, all those entries that you have mentioned are from Croatia (except 1983).
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    QQ7 wrote: »
    QQ7 wrote: »
    I'm in my 20s and I still hear this song quite often on radio/TV/films etc.


    Lovely winner. By the way, you are from Croatia I see. Zagreb has always been the musical heart of Yugoslavia, also when Yugoslavia was still participating as one union nation. You got to remember the Yugoslavia entries from 1968, 1983 (4th), 1987, 1988, 1989 (winner!) and 1990. But also the great entries from Serbia from 2004 (2nd) and 2007 (winner). Or Croatia 1996 (4th), 1998 (5th) and 1999 (4th).

    Wow nice Eurovision history knowledge.

    Interestingly enough, all those entries that you have mentioned are from Croatia (except 1983).

    Hehehe @QQ7. Here speaks a fan. Can I ask if you remember anything from the 1990 Eurovision Song Contest in Zagreb?

    This is probably my fav. Yugoslavian entry. So cheesy, so….Robin Hood :)) :

  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    edited October 9 Posts: 297
    @GertGettler as I have said in my previous posts, I'm in my early 20s so I don't remember every single entry that good :)

    But I can say that all of those Croatian entries that you have mentioned are still quite famous and regularly played on radio and TV.

    I'm glad that you like "Dubrovački trubaduri" (Dubrovnik's troubadours). They seem like bad "memers", but they are actually trying to capture the spirit of once powerful "Republic of Ragusa". Culturally quite interesting.

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