Bringing Sexy Back: Why Fleming was wrong, Dalton was worst, and Sean will always be the best.

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Comments

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 176
    acoppola wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Now, I’m not saying that Dalton’s films didn’t include sensuality, but clearly his included the least, making his tenure as Bond by far the least successful. George honestly did more for the Bond character than I think Timmy could have done in 5. I would say that after Dalton, Craig is leading in a lack of sensuality. Contrary to Babz’s eye-banging idiocy, simply showing off his rippling muscles in a few shirtless scenes does not make Bond sexy. In his three films Craig has only bedded four women! George alone had at least four or five in his single film, and all the other actors could post much better numbers across any three of their movies. Now I understand that times have changed and that the image of the international womanizer has begun to fall out of favor in our modern post-feminist culture, but that doesn’t mean that Bond can’t still be out there flirting and having some fun. Things have gotten too serious and in Bond 24 they need to relax and let Bond be Bond, in every respect.

    Now I know this is a lot to take in all at once but I have no doubt that many of you will have plenty to say about the myriad of issues that I’ve brought up here, so please feel free to take little stabs at it or try and tackle the whole thing, entirely up to you. I’m really just looking for any feedback I can get because I’m curious to see what other thing about all of these issues. So, discuss…

    @sirseanisbond,

    Though I do agree with you in large part to what you are saying, I nonetheless feel you completely invalidate the legitimacy of your statements by using the number of sexual conquests in a given film as a barometer for the sex appeal of that film's leading man. That is a ludicrous analysis. I'm sorry, I just can't take you seriously if you state that as your agument.

    I do agree with you in that Connery's portrayal is extremely different to Dalton's, as well Fleming's description. No question there. And I also agree with you that Connery's works infinitely better for the screen, and that he simply has the most animal magnetism and raw sexuality than any of the others. No arguments there either. However, I feel that Craig has that to some extent as well, and definitely much more so than you give him credit for. And you simply cannot evaluate that aspect of his masculinity by counting the number of on-screen conquests he's had. Those statistics exist because the SCREENPLAYS demanded them, end of story. It has absolutely nothing to do with Craig, or any of the other actors for that matter. Blame the writers.

    I think you have a good argument overall, but you really need something much stronger to back it up because this, unfortunately, weakens it.

    @wildboonjive You mentioned that you agree with most of @Sirsean

    I want to ask you what you think of his assessment that Lazenby achieved more in 1 film than Dalton could have in 5. I think it is a stretch with no backing up myself.Kind of like me saying the world is totally flat because I think so.

    @acoppola, the Lazenby this falls into that same category. It's ridiculous to assess him based on his conquests. The screenplay is responsible, not Lazenby. Though I have to be honest, for an unexperienced bloke I do think that Lazenby did have a fair amount of charisma.

    The way he wrote it @wildboonjive I thought he meant Lazenby did a better job as Bond than a highly trained actor like Dalton. I know he mentioned the women, but I thought that was another issue.

    I never thought Lazenby was a bad Bond and in a way he holds his own and has some unique moments that suited him perfectly.

    Me, I don't care for Lazenby. He's good at times but there are other times when his line-delivery is poor. I'm not talking about one-liners. I'm talking about when he's simply speaking to another character. Sometimes he sounds wooden. Of course, that's because he wasn't a professional actor at the time, which kind of annoys me. Really. You hire a guy to play Bond simply on his looks? You don't care about acting at all? So, that colors my judgment too.

    However, in terms of being sexy. He's not really my type. I think Dalton is sexier.
  • acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    You should read Cubby's When The Snow Melts if you have not. He goes into why they had to let Lazenby go.
    I'll give it a bash; I have read a lot of articles on some of the issues he (and the rest of the cast) had.

    You will like the detail on Connery's casting as well as Dalton's. Cubby knew exactly what he is doing and it was no accident they got to play Bond. And getting Bond as a gig is no easy process for the actor. They study your work a lot especially in the 80's.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)

    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.

    Nice one. Christopher Lee is theatrical too! :))

    And Scaramanga is one of the best villains. And the midget side kick was awesome. Heard he was a perv though.

    I just realised, each Bond actor's look works for the series. Dalton is the Bond for horror fans. I guess it is the differences that make it interesting. I could not even be without Lazenby.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.

    Nice one. Christopher Lee is theatrical too! :))

    And Scaramanga is one of the best villains. And the midget side kick was awesome. Heard he was a perv though.

    He is indeed. I thought he was fantastic as Scaramanga.

    I actually remember hearing somewhere (might have been on one on the old mi6 threads) that Lee had described Dalton's Bond as "too theatrical" in the past. In fairness I don't know if that true.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    acoppola wrote:
    An interesting link to some critics favourite James Bond movies. Ironic they pick Dalton as the best of the 80's and explain why. http://flixchatter.net/2012/03/13/007-chatter-our-picks-of-best-worst-bond-films-from-each-decade/

    Those who discard the Bond from the book are missing out. It makes no sense to say Fleming is flawed considering the producers bought the rights and thought the character would make for amazing cinema.

    The real question and answer @SirSeanIsBond is that had Fleming not written those books then there would be no Connery in the first place.

    As for Sean improving on Fleming's original character? Sean was amazing in the role, but he just used his own personality to add to Fleming's Bond. @SirSeanIsBond is confusing the actor with the character. A nice try but ultimately does not stack up to logic.

    Cubby Broccoli said that Bond is bigger than the actor who plays him and here we are 50 years later.

    @SirSeanIsBond Who is the best Dracula. Is it the cinematic version by Bela Lugosi whose image was based on a magician or Bram Stoker's novel that to this day is being read?

    I think the problem is that if characters stay in a stereotype or populist version, they can only go so far before running out of steam. The Hammer Dracula series became exploitation towards the end.

    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee and I was the equivalent of you when it comes to Bond. I thought it was awful and so unsexy. I mean an old man as Dracula like Coppola shows in parts of the film? But it'sin the books and adds dimension.

    But on reading about the character and Coppola's vision for the film, I could respect the work on it's own merit.

    You unfortunately rubbish an actors hard work and that I take objection to. Not just Dalton but Craig too who both put a lot of thought into their performances and had no interest of being like a predecessor.

    Dalton's Bond was a necessity for the series to gain some respect back. It could not have survived going in the Roger Moore direction and was past it's sell by date.




    Brilliantly written post and the bit in Bold is what everybody needs to understand.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.

    Nice one. Christopher Lee is theatrical too! :))

    And Scaramanga is one of the best villains. And the midget side kick was awesome. Heard he was a perv though.

    He is indeed. I thought he was fantastic as Scaramanga I actually remember hearing somewhere (might have been on one on the old mi6 threads) that Lee had described Dalton's Bond as "too theatrical" in the past. In fairness I don't know if that true.

    That was on a Jonathan Ross Bond special back in the 1990's. Lee actually said he expected that performance based on Dalton's theatrical training. He meant it in a good way as in he had the acting skill.

    Jonathan Ross likes Dalton.



  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    doubleoego wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    An interesting link to some critics favourite James Bond movies. Ironic they pick Dalton as the best of the 80's and explain why. http://flixchatter.net/2012/03/13/007-chatter-our-picks-of-best-worst-bond-films-from-each-decade/

    Those who discard the Bond from the book are missing out. It makes no sense to say Fleming is flawed considering the producers bought the rights and thought the character would make for amazing cinema.

    The real question and answer @SirSeanIsBond is that had Fleming not written those books then there would be no Connery in the first place.

    As for Sean improving on Fleming's original character? Sean was amazing in the role, but he just used his own personality to add to Fleming's Bond. @SirSeanIsBond is confusing the actor with the character. A nice try but ultimately does not stack up to logic.

    Cubby Broccoli said that Bond is bigger than the actor who plays him and here we are 50 years later.

    @SirSeanIsBond Who is the best Dracula. Is it the cinematic version by Bela Lugosi whose image was based on a magician or Bram Stoker's novel that to this day is being read?

    I think the problem is that if characters stay in a stereotype or populist version, they can only go so far before running out of steam. The Hammer Dracula series became exploitation towards the end.

    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee and I was the equivalent of you when it comes to Bond. I thought it was awful and so unsexy. I mean an old man as Dracula like Coppola shows in parts of the film? But it'sin the books and adds dimension.

    But on reading about the character and Coppola's vision for the film, I could respect the work on it's own merit.

    You unfortunately rubbish an actors hard work and that I take objection to. Not just Dalton but Craig too who both put a lot of thought into their performances and had no interest of being like a predecessor.

    Dalton's Bond was a necessity for the series to gain some respect back. It could not have survived going in the Roger Moore direction and was past it's sell by date.




    Brilliantly written post and the bit in Bold is what everybody needs to understand.

    Thank you @Doubleoego I like yours too and appreciate the kind words!

    I do think some Bond fans need to be aware of the history more accurately. No excuse on a site like this.

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.

    Nice one. Christopher Lee is theatrical too! :))

    And Scaramanga is one of the best villains. And the midget side kick was awesome. Heard he was a perv though.

    He is indeed. I thought he was fantastic as Scaramanga I actually remember hearing somewhere (might have been on one on the old mi6 threads) that Lee had described Dalton's Bond as "too theatrical" in the past. In fairness I don't know if that true.

    That was on a Jonathan Ross Bond special back in the 1990's. Lee actually said he expected that performance based on Dalton's theatrical training. He meant it in a good way as in he had the acting skill.

    Jonathan Ross likes Dalton.



    Jonathan Ross also liked DAD too ;)

    I remember seeing that show on youtube and, from what I recall, Ross praised Dalton and Lee sort of brushed over him a bit (although he big up George Lazenby if I remember).
  • Posts: 176
    I guess it's just me but when we're talking about sexiness, saying Dalton would be a good Dracula doesn't strike me as a good thing. ;)
  • Sean Connery as Van Helsing. :)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    CraterGuns wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    I remember when I saw the Dracula with Gary Oldman and thought he lost the plot. I grew up on Christopher Lee...
    BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA is one of the most beautiful-looking gothic horror films ever made. Unfortunately Keanu Reeves is in it, failing miserably at playing an Englishman.

    And then there's that horrid double-barrelled beehive hairstyle that "old" Drac sports in the first part of the movie...

    Change nothing about Coppola's 1992 film except --
    * Timothy Dalton as the Count (instead of Gary Oldman)
    * Daniel Craig as Jonathan Harker (instead of Keanu Reeves)
    * No beehive granny 'do on Drac!
    -- and you'd have the best damn Dracula film of all time.

    Anyway, with actual relevence to this thread...

    An old girlfriend of mine (way back in the day) would go all wobbly in the knees re: Dalton. In fact, it was the Daltonator who turned her into a James Bond fan. (The brooding Heathcliff type really did it for her.)

    So "sexy" is, like most things in this world, purely subjective.



    Nicely written @Craterguns Bram Stoker's Dracula is my favourite for it's visuals and some great performances. I must say, I do like the idea of Dalton as Dracula.:)
    Your old girlfriend had good taste. I had an ex too that liked Dalton. He is the brooding type and some women like conflicted men.



    Dalton would make a great Dracula*. I'm going to put that out there.

    Haven't some people on here already said he looks like Dracula in LTK? ;)

    *God I love Christopher Lee. Saw him at the SF premier the other week.

    Nice one. Christopher Lee is theatrical too! :))

    And Scaramanga is one of the best villains. And the midget side kick was awesome. Heard he was a perv though.

    He is indeed. I thought he was fantastic as Scaramanga I actually remember hearing somewhere (might have been on one on the old mi6 threads) that Lee had described Dalton's Bond as "too theatrical" in the past. In fairness I don't know if that true.

    That was on a Jonathan Ross Bond special back in the 1990's. Lee actually said he expected that performance based on Dalton's theatrical training. He meant it in a good way as in he had the acting skill.

    Jonathan Ross likes Dalton.



    Jonathan Ross also liked DAD too ;)

    I remember seeing that show on youtube and, from what I recall, Ross praised Dalton and Lee sort of brushed over him a bit (although he big up George Lazenby if I remember).

    He was complimentary because I would have noticed. Lee was talking of all the strengths the actors brought to the role.

    He also said there was no ultimate Bond at the time and Lee is related to Fleming. I remember Lee years later saying that Brosnan was his favourite.

    But he and Brosnan had the same agent. : )

    Damn, I am going on Youtube right F'ing now. :)

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189


    Beat you to it ;)

    God Johnny looks young
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    marymoss wrote:
    I guess it's just me but when we're talking about sexiness, saying Dalton would be a good Dracula doesn't strike me as a good thing. ;)

    Easy there Mary.:) Did you know that Anne Rice loved Dalton and based Louis the vampire on him for Interview With The Vampire. Louis is the one who is always brooding and tormented. She saw him in Wuthering Heights 1971

    A younger Dalton would be a fine Dracula and there were rumours Hammer were considering but then the series crashed. I used to know some movie poster dealers who knew the industry and all the gossip.

    Dalton needed fangs as Bond and a cape. And blood rather than a vodka Martini. Then he would have smiled more!:)

    :)) :)) :))
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:


    Beat you to it ;)

    God Johnny looks young

    Mucho gracias @Bain123 We Bond fans need to stick together and educate the world about Bond and how wide ranging he is.

  • Posts: 176
    acoppola wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    I guess it's just me but when we're talking about sexiness, saying Dalton would be a good Dracula doesn't strike me as a good thing. ;)

    Easy there Mary.:) Did you know that Anne Rice loved Dalton and based Louis the vampire on him for Interview With The Vampire. Louis is the one who is always brooding and tormented. She saw him in Wuthering Heights 1971

    A younger Dalton would be a fine Dracula and there were rumours Hammer were considering but then the series crashed. I used to know some movie poster dealers who knew the industry and all the gossip.

    Dalton needed fangs as Bond and a cape. And blood rather than a vodka Martini. Then he would have smiled more!:)

    :)) :)) :))

    Oh, I could see him as a vampire. I just don't think that's a compliment since I find them weird looking.

    :-))
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    marymoss wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    I guess it's just me but when we're talking about sexiness, saying Dalton would be a good Dracula doesn't strike me as a good thing. ;)

    Easy there Mary.:) Did you know that Anne Rice loved Dalton and based Louis the vampire on him for Interview With The Vampire. Louis is the one who is always brooding and tormented. She saw him in Wuthering Heights 1971

    A younger Dalton would be a fine Dracula and there were rumours Hammer were considering but then the series crashed. I used to know some movie poster dealers who knew the industry and all the gossip.

    Dalton needed fangs as Bond and a cape. And blood rather than a vodka Martini. Then he would have smiled more!:)

    :)) :)) :))

    Oh, I could see him as a vampire. I just don't think that's a compliment since I find them weird looking.

    :-))

    Weird is the new sexy. Vampires are all the rage. ;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    Lee does refer to Dalton's "theatrical credit" but he also bigs up Lazenby.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    @Bain123 at 8:24

    God bless Jonathan Ross for the first words that came out of his mouth :)

    And Christopher Lee acknowledges both Dalton and Lazenby. I think he has the right attitude. The character is bigger than just one actor.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I know I saw it :)

    Good old Lee. Legend!!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I know I saw it :)

    Good old Lee. Legend!!

    Lee is a class act and I think he looks at the Bond actors for their strengths. That makes sense. I would never judge Roger for Fleming accuracy as he was not going for that.

    He uses the words "theatrical credit" for Dalton as well as agreeing with Ross "Oh yes!".

    Theatrical credit is what actors talk about in terms of acting experience.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Lee does refer to Dalton's "theatrical credit" but he also bigs up Lazenby.

    He should be kind to Lazenby. He did fine and looked the part. He suited OHMSS very well.

    I like how Lee criticises the mentality of number of films an actor makes to defend Lazenby. An actor can be good in one film. The three film rule for Bond is an urban myth because Goldfinger was the biggest hit so far.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    @sirseanisbond the books were a huge success even before the films were made, there is no way to say if without Connery the films would have been more of less successful. The book Bond is a fascinating creature and he should be the template for the cinematic Bond. To say that Connery is better than the book Bond is to say that he played the character wrongly! The fact is that is some of the films he did, and he looked bored but in a wrong way. I love Connery, he was, for most of my life, my favourite Bond, but I am not blind to the problems he, or any of the other actors, have.
    About sexiness, all the Bond actors without exception were sexy, that's part of the reason why they were chosen to play the character. Let me tell you, you don't know much about male sexiness, so let me give you my female opinion. We all have our favourites but they were all very good looking, sexy men in their day. So it is ridiculous to say that Dalton and Craig are not sexy. To base that on the fact that they bedded less women in their films is simply ridiculous. Wouldn't you think that is due to the script? Otherwise in real life sexual offenders would be sexy. I mean, to say that Daniel Craig is not sexy is even worse, as he goes off the scale. He's probably the Bond actor with more swagger (to use your own words) since Connery.
    acoppola wrote:

    Sean's portrayal is fantastic and Dalton said only a fool would try to follow Connery or be him.

    But it was the novels that Cubby and Harry saw huge possibilities and a fascinating character. Connery admitted he never liked the hero in the Fleming books and thought he was bland.

    You mention that Bond is not about realism. But the books are based on stories from real life.

    And bang on, the Bond of the books shows it is not a glamorous life and is not happy. He is an angry, obsessive character. He does not trust women or bed them as women are how spies were caught. Oldest trick in the book and usually lead to you being tortured then executed.

    Dalton by showing a Fleming like Bond also proves that many fans don't like Fleming. Fine, but who is the character supposed to be based on? The writer or an actor like Connery who could not stand the man in the books and added his own personality traits instead.

    Many think Dracula wears a cape with red underneath as well as sexy. But he does not in the novels and is the opposite of sexy. He is a monster and like Bond, is not accepted for the authors image of the character.

    But Fleming is the fountain where the Bond stories come from. And many to this day still read the books. Roger Moore's films are enjoyable but that is not Fleming by any stretch.

    Cinematic Bond is a great character, but after countless portrayals by Connery and Moore, surely a different flavour can be added.

    And the Bond bedding in the early movies was to appeal to a younger audience who could see their own fantasies lived out. It made the character more sellable as well as the humour helping too.

    Very well put
    You guy's have gotten way off track here so I'll post my original comments again. My main focus is actually on how Sean's portrayal of Bond is better than the original character which Fleming created in the books. Dalton is merely a proof of that concept. All of you should have another look at this, especially paragraph #5...
    Oh I read it; I just disagree with you. For me, Sean's take on the character, particularly from Goldfinger on, is just much shallower and considerably less interesting than Fleming's Bond.

    Also agreed.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Sandy wrote:
    @sirseanisbond the books were a huge success even before the films were made, there is no way to say if without Connery the films would have been more of less successful. The book Bond is a fascinating creature and he should be the template for the cinematic Bond. To say that Connery is better than the book Bond is to say that he played the character wrongly! The fact is that is some of the films he did, and he looked bored but in a wrong way. I love Connery, he was, for most of my life, my favourite Bond, but I am not blind to the problems he, or any of the other actors, have.
    About sexiness, all the Bond actors without exception were sexy, that's part of the reason why they were chosen to play the character. Let me tell you, you don't know much about male sexiness, so let me give you my female opinion. We all have our favourites but they were all very good looking, sexy men in their day. So it is ridiculous to say that Dalton and Craig are not sexy. To base that on the fact that they bedded less women in their films is simply ridiculous. Wouldn't you think that is due to the script? Otherwise in real life sexual offenders would be sexy. I mean, to say that Daniel Craig is not sexy is even worse, as he goes off the scale. He's probably the Bond actor with more swagger (to use your own words) since Connery.
    acoppola wrote:

    Sean's portrayal is fantastic and Dalton said only a fool would try to follow Connery or be him.

    But it was the novels that Cubby and Harry saw huge possibilities and a fascinating character. Connery admitted he never liked the hero in the Fleming books and thought he was bland.

    You mention that Bond is not about realism. But the books are based on stories from real life.

    And bang on, the Bond of the books shows it is not a glamorous life and is not happy. He is an angry, obsessive character. He does not trust women or bed them as women are how spies were caught. Oldest trick in the book and usually lead to you being tortured then executed.

    Dalton by showing a Fleming like Bond also proves that many fans don't like Fleming. Fine, but who is the character supposed to be based on? The writer or an actor like Connery who could not stand the man in the books and added his own personality traits instead.

    Many think Dracula wears a cape with red underneath as well as sexy. But he does not in the novels and is the opposite of sexy. He is a monster and like Bond, is not accepted for the authors image of the character.

    But Fleming is the fountain where the Bond stories come from. And many to this day still read the books. Roger Moore's films are enjoyable but that is not Fleming by any stretch.

    Cinematic Bond is a great character, but after countless portrayals by Connery and Moore, surely a different flavour can be added.

    And the Bond bedding in the early movies was to appeal to a younger audience who could see their own fantasies lived out. It made the character more sellable as well as the humour helping too.

    Very well put
    You guy's have gotten way off track here so I'll post my original comments again. My main focus is actually on how Sean's portrayal of Bond is better than the original character which Fleming created in the books. Dalton is merely a proof of that concept. All of you should have another look at this, especially paragraph #5...
    Oh I read it; I just disagree with you. For me, Sean's take on the character, particularly from Goldfinger on, is just much shallower and considerably less interesting than Fleming's Bond.

    Also agreed.

    Thanks @Sandy It is nice to hear a voice of reason and very well put on your part too!

  • Posts: 176
    The problem I have with Dalton, and it's mainly a problem in the beginning of TLD, is that Dalton's Bond is a very unhappy person. Granted, it's faithful to the books but as a moviegoer, it's not someone I particularly want to watch. Watching the film, I kept hoping for him to lighten up, which thankfully he does when he's around Kara.

    Now, he's not so bad in LTK. It's just in terms of personality, he'll never be one of my favorite Bonds though I can understand why some like him.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Dalton on the other hand makes a hash of it. His movies have all the adventure, the women, the cars, the locations, the villains, everything that makes up a ‘Bond movie’ except for the most important thing of all: James Bond

    Great post @sirseanisbond. The only point I think I disagree with is the point above.

    I don't think it boiled down to simply Sean Connery. Those earlier films had the sizzle of the film-making as well. Dalton's era had all the tick boxes of these elements: cars, women, etc., but the whole production just wasn't as glamourous as the 60's (and 70's) films.

    But I think this supports your argument anyways on the idea that those earlier films had that "it" factor.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    marymoss wrote:
    The problem I have with Dalton, and it's mainly a problem in the beginning of TLD, is that Dalton's Bond is a very unhappy person. Granted, it's faithful to the books but as a moviegoer, it's not someone I particularly want to watch. Watching the film, I kept hoping for him to lighten up, which thankfully he does when he's around Kara.

    Now, he's not so bad in LTK. It's just in terms of personality, he'll never be one of my favorite Bonds though I can understand why some like him.


    Who couldn't lighten up around Kara? :P But you know why he lightens up around Kara. It's because he is turned on by her innocence and naivety of how the world really works. He has seen the worst and she gives him relief. And I did not mean relief as double entendre. :)

    Funny thing is some hate the flippant Bond so as you can see no matter who they cast, not every one will be happy.

  • Posts: 176
    acoppola wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    The problem I have with Dalton, and it's mainly a problem in the beginning of TLD, is that Dalton's Bond is a very unhappy person. Granted, it's faithful to the books but as a moviegoer, it's not someone I particularly want to watch. Watching the film, I kept hoping for him to lighten up, which thankfully he does when he's around Kara.

    Now, he's not so bad in LTK. It's just in terms of personality, he'll never be one of my favorite Bonds though I can understand why some like him.


    Who couldn't lighten up around Kara? :P But you know why he lightens up around Kara. It's because he is turned on by her innocence and naivety of how the world really works. He has seen the worst and she gives him relief. And I did not mean relief as double entendre. :)
    Funny thing is some hate the flippant Bond so as you can see no matter who they cast, not every one will be happy.

    Actually, that is one problem I have. While I'm glad he lightened up, I really wish it would have been around someone smarter than Kara. She seems unworthy of a man of Bond's worldliness and intelligence.

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