Differences in acting between Timothy Dalton's Bond and Daniel Craig's Bond

1679111217

Comments

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Not me, just another sane soul who knows what he's talking about. :D


    Though I would like to pick at something. Matthews says that ther was a lack of humour in Daltons Bond, which I think isn't true. There is humour, but It's dry, sarcastic even.

    "Correct, you should have brought lillies."

    When I saw The Living Daylights back in 1987, the cinema roared with laughter when Dalton said : "Why didn't you learn the violin?!". If that is not a great one liner in that situation then I do not know what is. And I doubt Moore or Connery could have done it any better. And they were the masters of the one liner for sure!

    Dalton was dry and he used his eyes to convey humour. And he had style as well as panache. When he is smoking that cigarette at Uuniversal Exports whilst Q is explaining about the woman who strangles with her thighs.


    Love the "Salt Corrosion" one too which is classic sarcasm.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    barryt007 wrote:
    I still think Dalton didnt seem relaxed in the role and was quite wooden at times compared to the relaxed,smooth effort of Craig..

    What is up with this "relaxed" concept. Bond is a sadistic bastard and has killed many. Dalton was relaxed where the scene called for it like when he is courting Kara. Fleming's Bond was a tense bastard and Dalton wanted to convey that.

    The attitude of Bond is film and story dependent. Daylights is cold war and bear in mind 00 agents had been killed and would you be relaxed if you are on a list for being killed? Bond is more like a real spy than Playboy.

    An old friend's father who was a spy during WW2 told him that if any spy behaved like Roger Moore, he would end up getting a terrible death. It's a ruthless business and not a holiday. He liked Dalton's grit and realism.

    Bond in the books is not a nice character. Dalton played him close to that. And you cannot ignore the books or why does every film say "As Ian Fleming's James Bond 007".
    Anthony Hopkins got praised as Hannibal Lecter for being close to the book. In Bond you get destroyed for that unless you are Daniel Craig.



  • edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Another funny line from Dalton was "I hope you don't snore Q" in LTK.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,425
    acoppola wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    I still think Dalton didnt seem relaxed in the role and was quite wooden at times compared to the relaxed,smooth effort of Craig..

    What is up with this "relaxed" concept. Bond is a sadistic bastard and has killed many. Dalton was relaxed where the scene called for it like when he is courting Kara. Fleming's Bond was a tense bastard. The attitude of Bond is film and story dependent. Daylights is cold war and bear in mind 00 agents had been killed and would you be relaxed if you are on a list for being killed?

    The fact is that there are some poor people out there who just don't get Dalts. They're missing out big time with all their talk of him being too 'serious', 'thespy', not humorous enough ot too dark or whatever it is this week. The fact is that those in the know have realised for a long time that he is one of the best. Even though he only did two, he amply demomstrated that he was more than worthy of the role. Cubby knew this and stuck with him for years, even though the dumb studio and Renny Harlin wanted him out. He even carried Cubby's coffin at his funeral. as Bond Dalton was pure class. He treated Bond like a real character and for some people that just wasn't allowed. And so we had to endure a decade of Austin Reed Bond - a supposed imitation of Moore, but without the wit, style or acting ability.

    But after Bourne Eon knew that the only way forward was to reinvent Bond as a character driven series, paving the way for Mr Craig to step in. I guess if you're going to be entirely honest DC's Bond owes more to Matt Damon than TD, but it would still be nice to hear Craig acknowledge that Dalton was doing similar stuff with the character two decades ago.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Another funny line from Dalton was "I hope you don't snore Q" in LTK.

    Classic!

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    I still think Dalton didnt seem relaxed in the role and was quite wooden at times compared to the relaxed,smooth effort of Craig..

    What is up with this "relaxed" concept. Bond is a sadistic bastard and has killed many. Dalton was relaxed where the scene called for it like when he is courting Kara. Fleming's Bond was a tense bastard. The attitude of Bond is film and story dependent. Daylights is cold war and bear in mind 00 agents had been killed and would you be relaxed if you are on a list for being killed?

    The fact is that there are some poor people out there who just don't get Dalts. They're missing out big time with all their talk of him being too 'serious', 'thespy', not humorous enough ot too dark or whatever it is this week. The fact is that those in the know have realised for a long time that he is one of the best. Even though he only did two, he amply demomstrated that he was more than worthy of the role. Cubby knew this and stuck with him for years, even though the dumb studio and Renny Harlin wanted him out. He even carried Cubby's coffin at his funeral. as Bond Dalton was pure class. He treated Bond like a real character and for some people that just wasn't allowed.

    After Bourne Eon knew that the only way forward was to reinvent Bond as a character driven series, paving the way for Mr Craig to step in. DC is brilliant casting but it would be nice to see him give a nod to Tim.

    Yes, you are right. I accepted Dalton because Cubby said he was going to be great. I trust Cubby's word and liked the previous entries. Cubby was honest to the audience and tried to always give them something new. He made no mistake with Dalton.

    And I am seeing fans on Youtube saying Dalton even on his first film looks he has done several Bond films. The mark of a highly trained actor who knew what direction to take the series and not wait to be told. Cubby said that.

    And I just saw a Youtube review of Skyfall and the fan loved Skyfall though he said his favourite Bonds are Connery and Dalton. Dalton was ahead of his time and will keep growing that way. Dalton is more the Sean Connery mould with his own style and Cubby said that back in 1987. Cubby knew Connery better than anyone here I can say as a fact! That will do me!

    If I don't like Dalton then I don't like Bond. Simples!

  • Posts: 11,425
    acoppola wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    I still think Dalton didnt seem relaxed in the role and was quite wooden at times compared to the relaxed,smooth effort of Craig..

    What is up with this "relaxed" concept. Bond is a sadistic bastard and has killed many. Dalton was relaxed where the scene called for it like when he is courting Kara. Fleming's Bond was a tense bastard. The attitude of Bond is film and story dependent. Daylights is cold war and bear in mind 00 agents had been killed and would you be relaxed if you are on a list for being killed?

    The fact is that there are some poor people out there who just don't get Dalts. They're missing out big time with all their talk of him being too 'serious', 'thespy', not humorous enough ot too dark or whatever it is this week. The fact is that those in the know have realised for a long time that he is one of the best. Even though he only did two, he amply demomstrated that he was more than worthy of the role. Cubby knew this and stuck with him for years, even though the dumb studio and Renny Harlin wanted him out. He even carried Cubby's coffin at his funeral. as Bond Dalton was pure class. He treated Bond like a real character and for some people that just wasn't allowed.

    After Bourne Eon knew that the only way forward was to reinvent Bond as a character driven series, paving the way for Mr Craig to step in. DC is brilliant casting but it would be nice to see him give a nod to Tim.

    Yes, you are right. I accepted Dalton because Cubby said he was going to be great. I trust Cubby's word and liked the previous entries. Cubby was honest to the audience and tried to always give them something new. He made no mistake with Dalton.

    And I am seeing fans on Youtube saying Dalton even on his first film looks he has done several Bond films. The mark of a highly trained actor who knew what direction to take the series and not wait to be told. Cubby said that.

    And I just saw a Youtube review of Skyfall and the fan loved Skyfall though he said his favourite Bonds are Connery and Dalton. Dalton was ahead of his time and will keep growing that way.

    If I don't like Dalton then I don't like Bond. Simples!

    that's exactly what i felt. Dalton stepped onto the screen as Bond in 87 and he was fully formed from the first moment. i still think that is a remarkable achievment. Rog didn't fully settle into the role until Spy IMO. DC was great in CR but IMO he was not yet the Bond we know and love. that was a deliberqte decision but it made his task slightly easier i think. he had three movies to grow now into the character and the films have been designed to explicitly allow him to do that. Dalts had to be 007 from day one and i think he achieved that perfectly.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Personally I think Moore did "serious" Bond more effectively in FYEO - but thats just me.

    I've always felt that Moore's famous car kick was performed just as well as anything Dalts ever did.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Personally I think Moore did "serious" Bond more effectively in FYEO - but thats just me.

    I've always felt that Moore's famous car kick was performed just as well as anything Dalts ever did.

    And OP

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    barryt007 wrote:
    I still think Dalton didnt seem relaxed in the role and was quite wooden at times compared to the relaxed,smooth effort of Craig..

    What is up with this "relaxed" concept. Bond is a sadistic bastard and has killed many. Dalton was relaxed where the scene called for it like when he is courting Kara. Fleming's Bond was a tense bastard. The attitude of Bond is film and story dependent. Daylights is cold war and bear in mind 00 agents had been killed and would you be relaxed if you are on a list for being killed?

    The fact is that there are some poor people out there who just don't get Dalts. They're missing out big time with all their talk of him being too 'serious', 'thespy', not humorous enough ot too dark or whatever it is this week. The fact is that those in the know have realised for a long time that he is one of the best. Even though he only did two, he amply demomstrated that he was more than worthy of the role. Cubby knew this and stuck with him for years, even though the dumb studio and Renny Harlin wanted him out. He even carried Cubby's coffin at his funeral. as Bond Dalton was pure class. He treated Bond like a real character and for some people that just wasn't allowed.

    After Bourne Eon knew that the only way forward was to reinvent Bond as a character driven series, paving the way for Mr Craig to step in. DC is brilliant casting but it would be nice to see him give a nod to Tim.

    Yes, you are right. I accepted Dalton because Cubby said he was going to be great. I trust Cubby's word and liked the previous entries. Cubby was honest to the audience and tried to always give them something new. He made no mistake with Dalton.

    And I am seeing fans on Youtube saying Dalton even on his first film looks he has done several Bond films. The mark of a highly trained actor who knew what direction to take the series and not wait to be told. Cubby said that.

    And I just saw a Youtube review of Skyfall and the fan loved Skyfall though he said his favourite Bonds are Connery and Dalton. Dalton was ahead of his time and will keep growing that way.

    If I don't like Dalton then I don't like Bond. Simples!

    that's exactly what i felt. Dalton stepped onto the screen as Bond in 87 and he was fully formed from the first moment. i still think that is a remarkable achievment. Rog didn't fully settle into the role until Spy IMO. DC was great in CR but IMO he was not yet the Bond we know and love. that was a deliberqte decision but it made his task slightly easier i think. he had three movies to grow now into the character and the films have been designed to explicitly allow him to do that. Dalts had to be 007 from day one and i think he achieved that perfectly.

    Man is it great to hear other people like you say that about Dalton. I spent the last twenty years arguing with people who wrote him off without having seen him. And Cubby alludes to that in his book. Yes Daniel gets the praise but he is following in the footsteps of others who made it possible for him to be the Bond he is.

    I like Daniel as Bond, but do not have to like him by hating Roger, Tim or Pierce. And you rightly say that Daniel did not have to play the seasoned 007 straight away which was an advantage for sure.

    And if I ever met Barbara Broccoli, I would tell her how much I liked her father for casting Dalton. I grew up with Moore and had no problem with the change. Moore was all I knew about Bond as a child. People are swayed too easily by the press and then repeat what they have read. Not intelligent or Bond like either. Bond thinks for himself.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Jeez, many of you really need to see SF and all this talk about, "Dalton did this or did that decades ago" really isn't a solid argument considering both Craig and Dalton are playing the same bloody character.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I have. It easily slips into my top 5.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    doubleoego wrote:
    Jeez, many of you really need to see SF and all this talk about, "Dalton did this or did that decades ago" really isn't a solid argument considering both Craig and Dalton are playing the same bloody character.


    That's the whole point about the "same character". What one actor was hated for the other is praised. Double standards. I am going to see Skyfall anyway, but always enjoy Bond more when the past contributions are respected.

    As for the decades ago argument. We are still talking about Connery after 50 years from his debut. Bond has immense history and it is a compliment to Cubby as well as Harry that they did a great job in getting it right from the beginning.

  • doubleoego wrote:
    Jeez, many of you really need to see SF

    It's literally only just come out, give us a chance! ;) I couldn't get premiere tickets, but I'm seeing it tonight. It looks like Craigs best though, could definetly be the best since GE or it might even beat that and be the best since LTK imo.
    doubleoego wrote:
    "Dalton did this or did that decades ago" really isn't a solid argument considering both Craig and Dalton are playing the same bloody character.

    Well I've heard that argument used against Brosnan way more times than I can count on this site (Moore and Connery had done it all before, greatest hits, etc).

    Like I said, it'll be a few more hours until I see SF but in CR/QOS, I can't see much from Craig that hasn't been done by past Bonds (mainly Dalton and Lazenby).

    Doesn't bother me, I still like him as Bond, but I don't think it's fair that it can be used as an argument against one Bond actor but not the other.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    doubleoego wrote:
    Jeez, many of you really need to see SF

    It's literally only just come out, give us a chance! ;) I couldn't get premiere tickets, but I'm seeing it tonight. It looks like Craigs best though, could definetly be the best since GE or it might even beat that and be the best since LTK imo.
    doubleoego wrote:
    "Dalton did this or did that decades ago" really isn't a solid argument considering both Craig and Dalton are playing the same bloody character.

    Well I've heard that argument used against Brosnan way more times than I can count on this site (Moore and Connery had done it all before, greatest hits, etc).

    Like I said, it'll be a few more hours until I see SF but in CR/QOS, I can't see much from Craig that hasn't been done by past Bonds (mainly Dalton and Lazenby).

    Doesn't bother me, I still like him as Bond, but I don't think it's fair that it can be used as an argument against one Bond actor but not the other.

    I agree. Craig is fine and he can be enjoyed without this pointless need to elevate him above the others.

  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I have. It easily slips into my top 5.

    just below goldeneye i bet!
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Personally I think Moore did "serious" Bond more effectively in FYEO - but thats just me.

    I've always felt that Moore's famous car kick was performed just as well as anything Dalts ever did.

    And OP

    BAIN I am one of those who regularly says that Roger was underrated. Not only was his Bomd highly entertaining, but there is far more light and shade, seriousness and tension than most people give him credit for.

    This ties in with my view of Dalton. I don't actually see Dalton as the 'dark' 'serious' 'thesp' that you do. Yes he played it straighter than Rog but for me these are gradations on a scale and not polar opposites. Dalton was working within a context that had been created by Sean and Rog.

    For me PB is the only actor who stepped outside the tradition and really lost sight of the classic Bond. That's why I'm not a fan of his. He thought looking tall dark and handsome was all it took. Even Laz tried harder in the part than he did.

    Contrary to popular perception, I'd say it's not Dalts but DC who is the most serious Bond so far. But I am looking forward to him lightening up a bit in SF.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Hmmm, Brosnan gets a lot of heat and tbh I think he was utilised for base and superficial reasons; as in merely used to return Bond to the foray as opposed to really trying to do something special with the character.

    Dalton was a great Bond and at least we can all confidently agree that they tried to do something different with the character and they did. However, audiences just weren't ready for it. With Craig, they've done something different too and of course, when actors are playing the same character, there will be character traits and hallmarks that are the same, similar or at the very least familiar and the 2 actors that are the most alike are probably Crsig and Dalton but like with everyone else, we have a preference and that's usually based on what sets them apart and in my OPINION Craig is better because I think he's just more interesting to watch based on his voice, his body language, physicality and overall demeanour. He embodies Bond in a way no other actor has since Sean Connery. Naturally as it's just my opinion I don't expect people to necessarily agree with my views.
  • Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote:
    Hmmm, Brosnan gets a lot of heat and tbh I think he was utilised for base and superficial reasons; as in merely used to return Bond to the foray as opposed to really trying to do something special with the character.

    Dalton was a great Bond and at least we can all confidently agree that they tried to do something different with the character and they did. However, audiences just weren't ready for it. With Craig, they've done something different too and of course, when actors are playing the same character, there will be character traits and hallmarks that are the same, similar or at the very least familiar and the 2 actors that are the most alike are probably Crsig and Dalton but like with everyone else, we have a preference and that's usually based on what sets them apart and in my OPINION Craig is better because I think he's just more interesting to watch based on his voice, his body language, physicality and overall demeanour. He embodies Bond in a way no other actor has since Sean Connery. Naturally as it's just my opinion I don't expect people to necessarily agree with my views.

    I can see the positives in all the actors, with one exception...

    I think DC is great casting but I haven't been blown away by either of his first two films. I am hoping SF changes all that. And the news that they've finally got rid of Purvis and Wade gives me great hope for the future.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    When are you seeing SF @herself because if you weren't impressed by the last 2, I'm very anxious to know what you think of this latest outing.
  • Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote:
    When are you seeing SF @herself because if you weren't impressed by the last 2, I'm very anxious to know what you think of this latest outing.

    is that to me?

    if so, i'll let you know when I've seen it. i think i am going to like it.

    it's not that i wasn't impressed by CR, i just wasn't that entertained. i don't go to see a Bond movie to get too serious. i am a big fan of DC's portrayal but i don't think the scripts or directing were all that great in either CR or QoS. I actually enjoyed QoS a lot more than CR though, so things are on an upward trajectory.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    Hmmm, Brosnan gets a lot of heat and tbh I think he was utilised for base and superficial reasons; as in merely used to return Bond to the foray as opposed to really trying to do something special with the character.

    Dalton was a great Bond and at least we can all confidently agree that they tried to do something different with the character and they did. However, audiences just weren't ready for it. With Craig, they've done something different too and of course, when actors are playing the same character, there will be character traits and hallmarks that are the same, similar or at the very least familiar and the 2 actors that are the most alike are probably Crsig and Dalton but like with everyone else, we have a preference and that's usually based on what sets them apart and in my OPINION Craig is better because I think he's just more interesting to watch based on his voice, his body language, physicality and overall demeanour. He embodies Bond in a way no other actor has since Sean Connery. Naturally as it's just my opinion I don't expect people to necessarily agree with my views.

    I can see the positives in all the actors, with one exception...

    I think DC is great casting but I haven't been blown away by either of his first two films. I am hoping SF changes all that. And the news that they've finally got rid of Purvis and Wade gives me great hope for the future.

    Me too. I like Craig as an intelligent actor. But his first two films to me are less rewatchable. They have some great moments and he surely does shine in them. A good friend of mine who used to sell me Bond posters says if you like the Bond of Licence To Kill, then Skyfall is the best thing going. It is adult oriented Bond. And he rarely praises the newer Bond films.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Getafix wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    When are you seeing SF @herself because if you weren't impressed by the last 2, I'm very anxious to know what you think of this latest outing.

    is that to me?

    if so, i'll let you know when I've seen it. i think i am going to like it.

    it's not that i wasn't impressed by CR, i just wasn't that entertained. i don't go to see a Bond movie to get too serious. i am a big fan of DC's portrayal but i don't think the scripts or directing were all that great in either CR or QoS. I actually enjoyed QoS a lot more than CR though, so things are on an upward trajectory.

    Sorry, it was to you. The damn auto correct on my iPhone can be a real pain.

  • Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    When are you seeing SF @herself because if you weren't impressed by the last 2, I'm very anxious to know what you think of this latest outing.

    is that to me?

    if so, i'll let you know when I've seen it. i think i am going to like it.

    it's not that i wasn't impressed by CR, i just wasn't that entertained. i don't go to see a Bond movie to get too serious. i am a big fan of DC's portrayal but i don't think the scripts or directing were all that great in either CR or QoS. I actually enjoyed QoS a lot more than CR though, so things are on an upward trajectory.

    Sorry, it was to you. The damn auto correct on my iPhone can be a real pain.

    ah yes, apple's auto correct. very annoying. and it gets the gender wrong!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Oh well. No one has replied in ages which means they are at the cinema watching Skyfall.:)
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 173
    Some more recent Dalton in the media:

    http://twitchfilm.com/2012/10/twitch-in-bondage-why-timothy-dalton-was-the-best-bond.html

    http://voices.yahoo.com/james-bond-turns-50-why-timothy-dalton-better-than-11806369.html

    and the Incredible Suit's LTK review during the recent Blogalongabond:

    http://theincrediblesuit.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/blogalongabond-licence-to-kill-best.html

    I was going to post the TotalFilm one too, but someone else beat me to it.

    I just want to clarify that I like both Craig and Dalton. They both have their outstanding qualities that don't necessarily match each other's. I just don't see it as a competition... they are both good and they will both have people who prefer one over the other. Craig would obviously win any popularity contests now because he is the current Bond and the Bondmachine is at an all time hyped-up high. I just appreciate Dalton for who he is and what he brought and he happens to be my favorite incarnation of Bond.

    (and no I haven't watched SF but I just don't think it will make a difference in terms of who I personally enjoy the most. I won't go into it with any preconceived notions though. I will go into it full of excitement and ready to enjoy the hell out of myself).
  • Posts: 173
    acoppola wrote:
    Oh well. No one has replied in ages which means they are at the cinema watching Skyfall.:)

    If only... :( Still waiting here!!
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Regan wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Oh well. No one has replied in ages which means they are at the cinema watching Skyfall.:)

    If only... :( Still waiting here!!

    By the way, thanks for the Dalton media info. Like you I will see Skyfall but there is something about Tim's Bond that was ultra unique and though I admire Daniel's Bond, Tim will be one of my favourites. I love the controversy of Dalton.

    I don't know about you. But Clive Owen is a Dalton/Connery looker and I would have loved to see him do Bond. He reminds me of Tim.

    There will never be another Connery or Dalton. Not in my lifetime. Those broke the mould when they left.

  • Posts: 11,425
    acoppola wrote:
    Regan wrote:
    acoppola wrote:
    Oh well. No one has replied in ages which means they are at the cinema watching Skyfall.:)

    If only... :( Still waiting here!!

    By the way, thanks for the Dalton media info. Like you I will see Skyfall but there is something about Tim's Bond that was ultra unique and though I admire Daniel's Bond, Tim will be one of my favourites. I love the controversy of Dalton.

    I don't know about you. But Clive Owen is a Dalton/Connery looker and I would have loved to see him do Bond. He reminds me of Tim.

    There will never be another Connery or Dalton. Not in my lifetime. Those broke the mould when they left.

    have to disagree. not a big owen fan. he has a VERY boring voice/accent. glad DC got the gig.
Sign In or Register to comment.