Rest In Peace, show your respects to those who have passed away.

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  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,026
    Sad news indeed to hear of the passing of the Iron Lady. Although I hold conservative and unionist views politically, have to say I'm much more a One Nation Tory of the Macmillan and Douglas-Home premierships than a Thatcherite. Harold Macmillan said she sold off the family silver or words to that effect. Still, she was a remarkable woman of great political veracity and she implemented followed her political beliefs to the last. We are all children of Thatcher and modern Britain is Thatcher's Britain.

  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,026
    We're all Maggie's children

    THE SUN

    ANDREW MARR Last Updated: 08th September 2007

    THE widely praised TV series, Andrew Marr's History Of Modern Britain, reaches the Thatcher years tonight (BBC2, 9pm).

    Here, in an exclusive article for The Sun, the BBC's former political editor explains why he thinks Britons today are, in effect, ALL Mrs Thatcher's children.

    IT probably calls for a shrink, or a large glass of whisky. But I have finally admitted that Margaret Thatcher is my mother.

    Not literally, of course. My real mother is sparkier, just as tough, and wouldn't take kindly to that idea.

    But politically, Thatcher has made us all her children.

    Of the prime ministers since the war, she was the one who changed the political weather.

    With our privatised, still-powerful economy, our low direct tax rates, our sceptical attitude to Europe, our close relationship with the US and the disappearance of real socialism from our politics, we are still the country she shaped.

    Even today's reforms of the public sector by mimicking the market — which seem to be struggling — had their origins in the Thatcher years.

    Her successors, John Major and Tony Blair, inherited a land that had gone through a traumatic revolution in the 1980s.

    They have changed us at the edges — a bit more indirect tax, new rights for some workers, for gay people — and, of course, many more people have come here from abroad, mainly Europe.

    But fundamentally they carried on in the direction she set. She fell out with Major, but Blair admits his debt.

    Even his much-criticised relationship with Dubya echoes hers with Ronald Reagan.

    And the rest of us? With our groaning credit cards, our love of home ownership, and what she called "the great car economy", plus our suspicion of big government, we too are living Thatcherised lives.

    That's why, in the fourth of my films telling the story of modern Britain, I say we are all — rebel or not — the children of Margaret Thatcher. I thought for a long time about that.

    When she came to power I was an enthusiastic Left-winger. I just couldn't believe she would survive. And the truth is, she very nearly didn't.

    She was a lucky politician. Without the tax from North Sea Oil she'd have found it hard to get through those first, rocky years. If her Cabinet had been less wet they might have stopped her.

    If Galtieri's Argentine forces had been better prepared we might have lost the Falklands war — and she would have been out.

    If the miners had been led by wily leaders, rather than the deluded Arthur Scargill, she might not have won that victory.

    Had Labour not been busy tearing itself apart in public she might have found her general elections a little tougher, too.

    Had the IRA been better informed about which bedroom suite she would be using they would have murdered her in Brighton.

    And us? The great shake-out in British industry in the early Eighties was too tough, too drastic.

    Many companies that went then could still have been with us today. She could be harsh. The poll tax was a disaster. That's the nature of revolutions.

    There are always victims, always mistakes.

    But this is a rich country now. And you can't eat the fruit while sneering at the farmer.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    edited April 2013 Posts: 1,090
    AgentJM7 wrote:
    People either need to show respect or shut up. Now is not the time.

    Oh yes of course show respect, like the great margaret thatcher did when she divided Britain and decimated the north? When she left Liverpool to a 'managed decline'? When she covered up the hillsborough disaster and protected the police and let the innocent fans be inexplicably blamed!?
    She after the Heysel disaster was the reason why fencing was put up at football stadia , blaming the Liverpool fans again and failing to realise that the game should never have been played at a dilapidated old athletic stadium in the first place! That ground was not fit for purpose!
    If you believe that it was Liverpool hooligans that killed the juventus fans at Heysel then I will gladly put u straight.
    And she practically destroyed Wales Ireland Scotland and the north of England and you want me to pay respect? Yes this is what this thread is for , but that woman doesn't deserve it and I won't mince my words if people try and spout how brilliant she was because she is the cause of most of the problems we have today in this country!
    So do me a favour mate?
  • Posts: 12,121
    @AgentJM7 I wouldn't wish death on anyone but I'm not going to pretend I liked her just because she's dead, and I'm not going to mourn her because of all the reasons @DCisared already listed.
  • As an American (and a teenager) I didn't know much about Margaret Thatcher other than she was a female prime minister and the 'appearance' in FYEO... But I will always salute and respect the deceased. RIP Mrs. Thatcher
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 1,141
    DCisared wrote:
    AgentJM7 wrote:
    People either need to show respect or shut up. Now is not the time.

    Oh yes of course show respect, like the great margaret thatcher did when she divided Britain and decimated the north? When she left Liverpool to a 'managed decline'? When she covered up the hillsborough disaster and protected the police and let the innocent fans be inexplicably blamed!?
    She after the Heysel disaster was the reason why fencing was put up at football stadia , blaming the Liverpool fans again and failing to realise that the game should never have been played at a dilapidated old athletic stadium in the first place! That ground was not fit for purpose!
    If you believe that it was Liverpool hooligans that killed the juventus fans at Heysel then I will gladly put u straight.
    And she practically destroyed Wales Ireland Scotland and the north of England and you want me to pay respect? Yes this is what this thread is for , but that woman doesn't deserve it and I won't mince my words if people try and spout how brilliant she was because she is the cause of most of the problems we have today in this country!
    So do me a favour mate?

    This is a thread about marking respect for the deceased, clearly you are unable to grasp this simple concept. If you want to spout your hate against someone then maybe you should set up your own separate thread!

    RIP Baroness Thatcher.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 16,968
    People, a certain amount of political fire is to be expected when a figure like this comes into focus, but let's leave the hostilities at the door, shall we? Nobody's running for election (I presume) and we're not going to fix the 80s by verbalising whatever frustrations we may carry with us. Furthermore, it's a James Bond forum so heated debate about Bond is one thing; political rampages something else. Thanks. ;-)
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posters-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,631
    I didn't know Margareth, but i can see that you guys did and that she was very respected. I post here my sincere condolences at this moment.
  • Posts: 5,747
    Gerard wrote:

    I don't see it as a competition.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 12,121
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    she was very respected

    By some people she was but by lots of others she wasn't. It really depends where you are and who you ask.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posters-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited April 2013 Posts: 2,631
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    she was very respected

    By some people she was but by lots of others she wasn't. It really depends where you are and who you ask.

    Yeah i saw that from the words of some people in here.
  • Posts: 7,166
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    she was very respected

    By some people she was but by lots of others she wasn't. It really depends where you are and who you ask.

    Yeah i saw that from the words of some people in here.

    I lived in a post Thatcher England up in the north and have never heard one kind word being spoken about her.

    While she was most certainly an imposing figure in history, without the Falkland war her reign might have been cut very short as would have had her legacy. And did have an huge dislike of Nelson Mandela and was not opposed to Apartheid in SA.

    I think that man on the street that had to pay the bill of her scheme's has little positive to say, while most people in power are more diplomatic.

    Her best performance was indeed in FYEO.

  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posters-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,631
    SaintMark wrote:
    Her best performance was indeed in FYEO.

    I didn't even know that it was her, but i agree that she acted very well.
    SaintMark wrote:
    I lived in a post Thatcher England up in the north and have never heard one kind word being spoken about her.

    While she was most certainly an imposing figure in history, without the Falkland war her reign might have been cut very short as would have had her legacy. And did have an huge dislike of Nelson Mandela and was not opposed to Apartheid in SA.

    I think that man on the street that had to pay the bill of her scheme's has little positive to say, while most people in power are more diplomatic.

    That can be the worst that i've heard from her. Nowadays i think that we can't accept anyone that went agains Nelson, as we can analyze the hard work that he had to terminate the Apartheid.

    Anyways, i guess that she maybe had shown up two faces and no one would agree with both.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited April 2013 Posts: 11,484
    Samuel001 wrote:
    RIP Margaret Thatcher. Thanks for all the good you did and tried to do.

    That says it all, and I feel, correctly, no matter what your opinion of her. This is a show respect thread, folks. Seriously.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 4,807
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Her best performance was indeed in FYEO.

    I didn't even know that it was her, but i agree that she acted very well.

    2lmlxme.gif

  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posters-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited April 2013 Posts: 2,631
    2lmlxme.gif

    Yes i'm serious. I really didn't know her. I'm from South America and here we doesn't get too many news from these diplomatic parts.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Well for nothing else it should be remembered that she had the balls for the job that no one in parliament has today.

    Stuck it to the Argies, islamic terrorists at the Iranian embassy and the IRA instead of the mealy mouthed appeasement that passes for leadership these days.

    No matter your views it can't be denied that she was the stuff of legend rather than the gutless suits we have on both sides of the house now.

    And above all she was the only prime minister to feature in a Bond film and a Bond book so has to go down in history for that.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,431
    No we'll just forget all the bad things she did because she had balls, I was sick of hearing this same thing about the woman when she was alive.

    I think those who despise have more than enough to back up their feelings and the BBC have just done a what a wonderful leader she was showcase. You'd think nothing else has happened in the world today. How about reporting on the street parties in Brixton and Glasgow, maybe some subjective journalism with this story instead of just the gutless politicians raining platitudes down on the woman.

    She was controversial you bet she was, she was also destructive and gave birth to the selfish yuppies who's legacy still lives on, yeah something to be proud of turning people into selfish materialistic fat cats.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,168
    Shardlake wrote:
    No we'll just forget all the bad things she did because she had balls, I was sick of hearing this same thing about the woman when she was alive.

    I think those who despise have more than enough to back up their feelings and the BBC have just done a what a wonderful leader she was showcase. You'd think nothing else has happened in the world today. How about reporting on the street parties in Brixton and Glasgow, maybe some subjective journalism with this story instead of just the gutless politicians raining platitudes down on the woman.

    She was controversial you bet she was, she was also destructive and gave birth to the selfish yuppies who's legacy still lives on, yeah something to be proud of turning people into selfish materialistic fat cats.

    They are...on Sky News. Rather sad really that people are going to those lengths to celebrate the death of someone (I don't care what she may have done - its pathetic that people can't seem to move on*).

    *It was sad when parts of America did it with Bin Laden too.

    I know that I was too young to remember the affect her actions had first hand but they even seemed to divide people on the front line back then so perhaps its not quite as clear-cut as we now make out.

    I can understand people dispising her but something just makes me feel uneasy about the way some are rejoycing. A friend of mine knows a couple in the North who had a bottle of champagne saved for when she goes...that's just spiteful.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 1,141
    It is spiteful and pathetic. And ironic that people should want to celebrate or rejoice with a bottle of champagne. Isn't that meant to be the drink of the yuppies (the fat cats)?!

  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,090
    Well for nothing else it should be remembered that she had the balls for the job that no one in parliament has today.

    Stuck it to the Argies, islamic terrorists at the Iranian embassy and the IRA instead of the mealy mouthed appeasement that passes for leadership these days.

    No matter your views it can't be denied that she was the stuff of legend rather than the gutless suits we have on both sides of the house now.

    And above all she was the only prime minister to feature in a Bond film and a Bond book so has to go down in history for that.

    @wizard behave your self she was the stuff of nightmares! take away the economic and social disasters she created and think as someone who calls himself a Liverpool supporter, do you really think she was a legend for helping to cover up hillsborough and protecting the SY police?
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,090
    RIP to Derek Watkins who's funeral it was today.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,026
    Might I just be permitted to add before the fire leaves me that I think people who celebrate Margaret Thatcher's death are actually pretty sick individuals that really need help. This has always disgusted me personally. Nobody deserves such villification as this poor elderly woman. Leave her alone. She was someone's mother and grandmother. She led Britain for 11 and a half years and though she was certainly controversial, this is still Thathcher's Britain. Gone are the darker days of the 1960s and 1970s. Give Baroness Thatcher some credit - she had a very difficult job in getting Britain on its feet again.
  • @ Bain- I don't think you can remotely compare any part of Thatcher or her death to bin Laden's short of saying both were willing to die for what they believed. That's like me rejoicing over the death of either Bush, which as much as I disagreed with them and their politics, I'd never celebrate. This celebration of Thatcher's death is in very poor taste indeed, what a shame.

    That's how I see Thatcher as an American with no agenda here. Instead of hiding in a cave and issuing fatwas giving the OK for innocent children to be killed, Thatcher was nowhere near that special kind of monster. Don't forget that his devotees wreaked havoc in the UK and saw your country in similar terms to mine. Celebrating his death was completely understandable.

    Disagreeing with her politics and reforms is one thing, but I give her credit for doing what Reagan did- standing up for her beliefs and what she thought was the right thing to do for the British economy and world standing. I didn't like Reagan's domestic policies as I am a Democrat, but as a world leader he was the best president in my lifetime. The Ayatollah and the Soviets learned not to mess with us and Thatcher was of the same mold on the international stage, as Wiz mentioned she proved to a staunch defender of the British people and like Reagan, people of dubious intent quickly learned not to mess with GB on her watch. My sincere condolences to her family and the British people for her loss.

    On a personal level, like my homeboy Frankie Avalon (and Fabian and Bobby Rydell, good South Philly Italian boys all) I am stunned but not surprised by the death of Annette Funicello. It's weird that I thought about her just the other day and was glad she was still fighting MS and hanging in there all these years later. She and Mie Hama were my first boyhood crushes. By all accounts a wonderful human being. May she rest in peace.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,090
    Standing by her beliefs? Jesus Christ! Her and her cabinet decided to leave the north in 'managed decline' !
    How selfish and pig headed can someone be!? When the people needed her , the leader deserted them, practically building walls around city's. she acted like no one lived there!
    Thats whats disgusting! And she's privatising hell as we speak! Making room for all the clones she created when she split up a nation!
    UNITED KINGDOM it is not!!!
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 101
    [removed by mod]

    Back on topic: does anyone think what party Bond would vote for?
    I see him as Labour.
    He is a working man, part of a BIG GOVERNMENT, fighting against the twisted ideologies of large scale capitalists.
    He would shed no tears for MT. In fact he left her hanging in FYEO :D :D what a legend!

    Mod edit:
    Double post merged.
    Offensive (and tasteless) content regarding the recently deceased M. Tatcher removed.
    Friendly request to member not to bring politics into this thread for it could be regarded as an obvious attempt at derailing the thread.
  • Posts: 5,651
    sorry to hear of Mrs Thatchers passing. First female leader of the United Kingdom and she did have her moments. One of the most colorful characters of the 20th century without question. I realize she wasn't liked by a great many, but she was an immense figure. RIP

    The great movie critic that was Roger Ebert also deserves a mention. We'll miss your film reviews. RIP also
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 1,984
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Furthermore, it's a James Bond forum so heated debate about Bond is one thing; political rampages something else. Thanks. ;-)

    Well, there's always time for a Ian Fleming quote (Note : some could be offended) :)

    28498547-38ee-436f-8425-fdaa8e870fd0-460x276.jpeg
    ixrpeo.jpg

    These are the same two or three guys in all the photos, I easily found quite a few of them. I think the use of such a famous quote softens a bit the message, even if it stills means clearly what it means.

    PS : In France, in 1986, a anti-Thatcher song was in the charts for 9 weeks :)
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    Might I just be permitted to add before the fire leaves me that I think people who celebrate Margaret Thatcher's death are actually pretty sick individuals that really need help. This has always disgusted me personally. Nobody deserves such villification as this poor elderly woman. Leave her alone. She was someone's mother and grandmother. She led Britain for 11 and a half years and though she was certainly controversial, this is still Thathcher's Britain. Gone are the darker days of the 1960s and 1970s. Give Baroness Thatcher some credit - she had a very difficult job in getting Britain on its feet again.

    Well said sir. Totally agree.

    I completely accept she divided opinion and a lot of people have reason to not shed a tear on her passing however if you wanted to rejoice or celebrate then when she was forced out of power in 1990 was the time to do it. That's when her political career effectively ended.

    To behave the way some people have about a frail old 87 year old woman is wicked and shows the true personality of some people.
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