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Comments
Agree with all your observations. I felt all of this from my very first viewing. Couldn't stand Brosnan. Bean's accent was laughable. The plot and dialogue were mainly dire. Dreadful acting and action throughout. And they managed to bring back the single worst element of the Dalton era - Joe Don Baker. Bizarre. I literally cannot understand how it gets to highly ranked around here.
I don't have any qualms in saying that GE is amongst the worst Bond films ever made. Flat, dull, tedious. And Brosnan's others are all close by in my rankings.
I'm always torn between TWINE and DAD for worst Bond. DAD is so obviously dreadful that I think it overshadows TWINE sometimes. People forget just how boring and awful TWINE is. I might start a campaign to get TWINE the recognition that it deserves.
The idea at the core of TWINE is rather solid. Bond falling in love with the eventual villain, while also dealing with a villain who can feel no pain, all of which is tied up in oil, which was very topical (and still is) at the time. As we all know, things just went massively off the rails and the whole thing turned into something just above the level of a daytime soap opera, but at its core, there's solid Bond film.
DAD could have been so much more, as it's opening third or so would indicate, before it rather oddly ventures off into the sci-fi realm.
What were Babs and MGW on back then?
I'd agree that there are still parts in that initial third of the film that are not particularly great, but the central idea that they tacked all of that stuff onto was pretty good, i.e. Bond being sold out by a traitor within MI6 and left to rot in a military prison for over a year, having to go it alone (before the rogue thing became big in Bond), and prove his worth, etc. A lot of really good things could have been done with that had the filmmakers not chosen to venture off into science-fiction or deal with gene therapy and henchmen with diamonds lodged in their face.
But, as you said, other actors might have been able to rise above it a bit more than Brosnan. I think, to go more to the theme of the thread, that GoldenEye would have been a much better film with Dalton in the role, playing opposite the rumored Anthony Hopkins in the Trevelyan role.
I'm not sure Tomorrow Never Dies would have been improved by someone else. That one seems pretty well tailored for Brosnan and he does a good job in it, even if there are plenty of ways that they could have toned down the action-fest that the story is and done a bit more mature commentary on the state of mass media and their role in world events, which there clearly is some small attempt to do but it ultimately gets bogged down in a very camp turn from Jonathan Pryce.
Perhaps The World is Not Enough and Die Another Day could have been better serviced by another actor, but outside of someone coming in with Daniel Craig-type control over the filmmakers, script, and pretty much everything else, I'm not sure how much of a difference that it would have made. We might have gotten a better performance out of the guy wearing the tux, but everything around him probably would have still been terrible.
Dalton and Hopkins in GE. Would have been amazing. Oh well. Shame Tim wasn't willing to sign a three picture deal. Fair enough though, he was getting on by then.
I think there was A LOT of projection given to Brosnan when he became Bond. No other actor, not even Roger Moore, was ever plebiscited in the role. He was hailed the best since Connery before a single shot of GE was ever filmed. Hence when GE became a success, many were still projecting. Actually, I honestly think many die hard Brosnan fans do.
There's a cabal of pseudo-intellectuals for whom Brosnan represents too much fun and whimsy. The kind who find the sound of a man farting into a kazoo and whining about the merits of socialism the pinnacle of artistic merit. I jest... a little.
Maybe some folks need to try the Kazoo. :))
For the record, I am not a Brosnan basher, GE was the first Bond movie I saw in cinema and I still love it. I could not WAIT for Dalton to leave the series for good before and I was really happy of Brosnan casting. So when I say Brosnan was plebicsited, I am counting myself among the people wanting him as Bond then. I'd still cast him for GE in a heartbeat.
What I said, however, is that there was a lot of projection in his casting then that made many of us overlook certain shortcomings in his acting. He himself said he remembers GE and the other Bond movies he was in were a blur.
Ditto. My comment was concerning people I've actually met.
This.
Someone mentioned Joe Don Baker. I hated that Wade character. A buffoon and I wished they recast. I liked him as Whitaker in TLD, especially his final face off with Bond!
I'm afraid I'm always going to be put into this category of Brosnan bashers. Being Irish, I should be rallying behind him. But I never liked him as an actor. I don't believe he has made the transition from TV to film convincingly. He simply doesn't have much screen presence.
And the Bond movies he was in, suffer for it. Having read the Bond novels, Timothy Dalton nailed it, imho, and I was gutted when it was announced he wouldn't return. I was even more gutted when they asked Brossa again. I despaired thinking he was going to appear in. what I thought then, at least 5 or 6 films. Felt he was sucking the life out of the character! Thank God for Babs and Michaels good sense. Craig has restored my faith. On to Bond 25 (With Daniel Craig please!)
I'm not saying Dalts is a bad film actor but you line him up alongside Connery, Moore, Brosnan, Craig and even Lazenby he has the look of a serous tv actor rather than a big screen actor.
I'm not saying Brosnan was always the most convincing actor, but I genuinely believe he has more of a screen presence than Dalton.
I'd also say Laz has more screen presence than Dalton.
Dalton had a lot more screen presence... In other movies. That's my perception anyway. I always said he seemed uncomfortable with the baggage and history that came with Bond. Brosnan was very comfortable finally playing the icon... But not the character.
Dalton was boring as hell. Y'all would have seriously been US hating if that would have happened.
We got the Bonds we needed, when we needed them.
The universe is unfolding as it should.
Totally agree with every word.
I'd reverse this and say that Brosnan works better as a film actor in most roles other than Bond, but Dalton pretty much nailed it as Bond from the opening scenes of TLD. I don't think it's bashing Brosnan to say the opening hour or so of TLD is amongst the best in any Bond movie, and that's largely down to Dalton.
Dalton's not perfect but he was a better Bond than Brosnan.
Seriously, look at most of Dalton's work and its made up of television stuff. He physically works better on the small screen.
Brosnan was more popular in the US market due to his tv career in the 80's and mainly B movie career pre-Bond. He used Bond very effectively to become a semi-A lister for a while, which is to his credit.
Dalton was a relative unknown.....perhaps a complete unknown stateside and didn't really translate his Bond role into larger parts while he had the part.
Fair comments.
I think Dalton's legacy is stronger. When casual fans (who normally dismiss Dalton) actually sit and watch his two, I find they're usually pleasantly surprised.
The opening of TLD is great classic Bond entertainment, and Dalton completely sells it.
May he never completely made the transition to the big screen, but for the first hour of TLD he transcends whatever his limitations were and gives us a great Bond performance.
That's a great moment from Dalton.
Still don't like "better make that two" or some of the Q and MP stuff though.