Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,596
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    Licence is the movie they should've made after OHMSS.

    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 25 Posts: 19,676
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    Licence is the movie they should've made after OHMSS.

    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!


    "He was married once. It was a long time ago. And his wife got murdered on their wedding day; good thing that's not going to happen to us!"

    ME1C1C1H_o.jpg
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,596
    mtm wrote: »
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    Licence is the movie they should've made after OHMSS.

    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!


    "He was married once. It was a long time ago. And his wife got murdered on their wedding day; good thing that's not going to happen to us!"

    ME1C1C1H_o.jpg

    :))
  • edited November 25 Posts: 6,430
    Perhaps a mix of DAF and LTK was needed. A revenge driven, violent Bond movie with outrageously camp villains and Bond girls. Sounds very 70s to me. Kind of wish it existed just to see what it would look like!
  • Posts: 2,587
    I imagine the first version of DAF wouldn't be LTK but the same DAF with an angry Bond. ;)
  • Posts: 6,430
    In fairness I think the direction may have had an impact. The DAF we have has this strange, almost B-Movie quality to it with things like poor fight choreography, strange edits, and lacklustre chases. You can even argue it enhances the tone to the entire movie (for better or worse), but I don't think it's an impression we would have quite gotten with Hunt.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,944
    As someone who loves OHMSS, DAF and LTK, I'm quite happy with what we've got.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,676
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I must say I agree: the tanker chase in Licence to Kill is the biggest action finale. I think it's so satisfying because step by step the villains are eliminated until it is just Bond and Sanchez fighting mano a mano. You can really feel Sanchez start to unravel as he goes more and more mad; and as his life's work (his drugs) goes up in flames

    Add incredible explosions, a great score, some nice stunt driving and an always kinetic sequence and for me LTK has the greatest climax out of all of the Bond films.

    I must be one of the very few that find the Truck chase an unsatisfying climax. I never found it that exciting.

    When i first saw it i wanted something more personal between Bond and Sanchez. The two hanging off the back of a Tanker just seemed a waste of potential for a riveting showdown between them.

    You're not the only one: I often find truck and car chases kind of boring. Not sure why. Maybe because the characters get lost in the spectacle?

    Exactly right. The characters did get lost somewhat in all the mayhem.

    I know Bond is destroying Sanchez's operation, but there's no real showdown between them. A brutal hand to hand combat would have been a more satisfying, with Sanchez aware of why Bond is trying to kill him.

    I disagree mate. I thought it was a clever use of the lighter, it was a gift from a close friend who was maimed by this sadistic villain, what better way to kill him? Love LTK for all the reasons @GoldenGun gave, terrific Bond movie with lots of Fleming in it. I think Ian would have loved it!
    Personally I was more disappointed with SF, we were led to believe there was going to be a brutal final confrontation between Silva and Bond, and to just kill him with a knife to the back was such a cop out, gave me another reason to dislike this movie!

    Fair enough mate :) But i don't think Fleming would have approved of Bond going 'rogue' on a reckless quest for revenge. His Bond i think would have agreed with M. "Leiter knew the risks.."

    I feel for better or worse Fleming wouldn’t have loved any of the Bond movies. Not hated them necessarily, but I think many just wouldn’t have been how he’d have approached Bond. LTK may well be an example, and for all the Fleming material in there I also have a hard time imagining the literary character acting the way he does in that film.

    Not that Fleming’s opinion would have mattered much anyway. His books/how they feed into the films do, but even that’s in service to the film.

    Yeah, I always get the impression, given all of the various treatments and scripts he wrote, that Fleming cared more that Bond appeared on the screen in any way at all than precisely how! Although obviously I'm sure he preferred the way he did it because that's, y'know, the way he chose to do it.
    I do agree on the character in LTK; I'm not totally sure that's how Bond would act. But I'm not certain. I do prefer the Craig version who puts his duty first though, it's a bit more interesting if anything because there are more dimensions to his decisions.

    Craig’s Bond I can buy as a reimagining of the blunt instrument from Fleming’s novels. He puts his duty/job, but not necessarily his superior’s orders, first.

    I think this is a really good way of describing Bond's priorities incidentally. I'd say this is pretty much how he behaves through the whole series.
  • Posts: 137
    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!

    Not the exact same plot, but tone-wise. If ever we were to have a gritty revenge flick with Bond going out on a limb for vengeance, it was in the wake of Tracy.

    Instead we got the Bond film I hate more than possibly any other.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited November 25 Posts: 4,596
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!

    Not the exact same plot, but tone-wise. If ever we were to have a gritty revenge flick with Bond going out on a limb for vengeance, it was in the wake of Tracy.

    Instead we got the Bond film I hate more than possibly any other.

    Oh, i see. The way you wrote it, it literally was LTK..!

    But yes, ideally it should have been a direct sequel, with George Lazenby, directed by Peter Hunt in which Bond is on the warpath to find Blofeld and Irma Bunt. With a similar tone to OHMSS.
  • LeighBurne wrote: »
    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!

    Not the exact same plot, but tone-wise. If ever we were to have a gritty revenge flick with Bond going out on a limb for vengeance, it was in the wake of Tracy.

    Instead we got the Bond film I hate more than possibly any other.

    Oh, i see. The way you wrote it, it literally was LTK..!

    But yes, ideally it should have been a direct sequel, with George Lazenby, directed by Peter Hunt in which Bond is on the warpath to find Blofeld and Irma Bunt. With a similar tone to OHMSS.

    Ideally it should be yes - but after reading those early DAF drafts written with Lazenby in mind, I’m not sure how “harder edged” that film would’ve been.
  • Posts: 16,260
    007HallY wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I must say I agree: the tanker chase in Licence to Kill is the biggest action finale. I think it's so satisfying because step by step the villains are eliminated until it is just Bond and Sanchez fighting mano a mano. You can really feel Sanchez start to unravel as he goes more and more mad; and as his life's work (his drugs) goes up in flames

    Add incredible explosions, a great score, some nice stunt driving and an always kinetic sequence and for me LTK has the greatest climax out of all of the Bond films.

    I must be one of the very few that find the Truck chase an unsatisfying climax. I never found it that exciting.

    When i first saw it i wanted something more personal between Bond and Sanchez. The two hanging off the back of a Tanker just seemed a waste of potential for a riveting showdown between them.

    You're not the only one: I often find truck and car chases kind of boring. Not sure why. Maybe because the characters get lost in the spectacle?

    Exactly right. The characters did get lost somewhat in all the mayhem.

    I know Bond is destroying Sanchez's operation, but there's no real showdown between them. A brutal hand to hand combat would have been a more satisfying, with Sanchez aware of why Bond is trying to kill him.

    I disagree mate. I thought it was a clever use of the lighter, it was a gift from a close friend who was maimed by this sadistic villain, what better way to kill him? Love LTK for all the reasons @GoldenGun gave, terrific Bond movie with lots of Fleming in it. I think Ian would have loved it!
    Personally I was more disappointed with SF, we were led to believe there was going to be a brutal final confrontation between Silva and Bond, and to just kill him with a knife to the back was such a cop out, gave me another reason to dislike this movie!

    Fair enough mate :) But i don't think Fleming would have approved of Bond going 'rogue' on a reckless quest for revenge. His Bond i think would have agreed with M. "Leiter knew the risks.."

    I feel for better or worse Fleming wouldn’t have loved any of the Bond movies. Not hated them necessarily, but I think many just wouldn’t have been how he’d have approached Bond. LTK may well be an example, and for all the Fleming material in there I also have a hard time imagining the literary character acting the way he does in that film.

    Not that Fleming’s opinion would have mattered much anyway. His books/how they feed into the films do, but even that’s in service to the film.

    I understand Ian Fleming tolerated FRWL, if I'm not mistaken?
    Anyway, Ernest Hemingway's motto about movies adapted from his work: take the money and run. I think it goes for many authors. Anthony Burgess was no fan of A Clockwork Orange, although he respected Kubrick, Stephen King's dislikes many great movies adapted from his novels, etc.
  • edited November 25 Posts: 6,430
    Ludovico wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I must say I agree: the tanker chase in Licence to Kill is the biggest action finale. I think it's so satisfying because step by step the villains are eliminated until it is just Bond and Sanchez fighting mano a mano. You can really feel Sanchez start to unravel as he goes more and more mad; and as his life's work (his drugs) goes up in flames

    Add incredible explosions, a great score, some nice stunt driving and an always kinetic sequence and for me LTK has the greatest climax out of all of the Bond films.

    I must be one of the very few that find the Truck chase an unsatisfying climax. I never found it that exciting.

    When i first saw it i wanted something more personal between Bond and Sanchez. The two hanging off the back of a Tanker just seemed a waste of potential for a riveting showdown between them.

    You're not the only one: I often find truck and car chases kind of boring. Not sure why. Maybe because the characters get lost in the spectacle?

    Exactly right. The characters did get lost somewhat in all the mayhem.

    I know Bond is destroying Sanchez's operation, but there's no real showdown between them. A brutal hand to hand combat would have been a more satisfying, with Sanchez aware of why Bond is trying to kill him.

    I disagree mate. I thought it was a clever use of the lighter, it was a gift from a close friend who was maimed by this sadistic villain, what better way to kill him? Love LTK for all the reasons @GoldenGun gave, terrific Bond movie with lots of Fleming in it. I think Ian would have loved it!
    Personally I was more disappointed with SF, we were led to believe there was going to be a brutal final confrontation between Silva and Bond, and to just kill him with a knife to the back was such a cop out, gave me another reason to dislike this movie!

    Fair enough mate :) But i don't think Fleming would have approved of Bond going 'rogue' on a reckless quest for revenge. His Bond i think would have agreed with M. "Leiter knew the risks.."

    I feel for better or worse Fleming wouldn’t have loved any of the Bond movies. Not hated them necessarily, but I think many just wouldn’t have been how he’d have approached Bond. LTK may well be an example, and for all the Fleming material in there I also have a hard time imagining the literary character acting the way he does in that film.

    Not that Fleming’s opinion would have mattered much anyway. His books/how they feed into the films do, but even that’s in service to the film.

    I understand Ian Fleming tolerated FRWL, if I'm not mistaken?
    Anyway, Ernest Hemingway's motto about movies adapted from his work: take the money and run. I think it goes for many authors. Anthony Burgess was no fan of A Clockwork Orange, although he respected Kubrick, Stephen King's dislikes many great movies adapted from his novels, etc.

    Yes, I think he was a lot nicer about FRWL. Not to say he was overly discouraging about DN, but he did of course say that if someone had read the novel they may not be as sold on the film compared to someone who hadn't read it beforehand.

    It makes sense that an author would have complicated feelings towards film adaptations of their books. The example that comes to mind for me is Roald Dahl disliking Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (which is a film I really like and have more fondness for than the book personally, and I suspect it's the case for many people). When your work is twisted, pulled apart, and put together again for a different medium by people with different perspectives, I can understand an author feeling betrayed. The Shining, for instance, is a wonderful horror film that puts things like obsession and how creative ambition can be self destructive to the forefront. It's slightly different to King's story of how alcoholism can fuel trauma and self destruction. Two different takes on the material (effectively a story about Jack's capacity for evil) by two different creatives, Kubrick likely channeling some of his creative frustrations as a filmmaker, and King drawing on his own alcoholism and early years as a husband/father. I don't think it means either the book or film is superior for what it's worth. It just means they're different, and King has a natural personal connection to his own material. It's the same to whatever extent for any author, probably even Hemingway, although I suspect he had the right idea there!

    I don't think Fleming was anywhere near as bitter about the first two Bond films for what it's worth (although I get the sense he was a bit melancholic about it, even if he knew those films were out of his hands after a point). I'd even say the Bond films have been quite deferential to Fleming's work on the whole, hard as it is to believe sometimes! That said I have a difficult time imaging Fleming would have been keen on something like YOLT, MR or LTK. Again, it doesn't really matter. When it gets to the point of movie adaptation they've become their own thing.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,676
    Yeah I tend to think that Fleming, Broccoli & Saltzman's names should all be on the front of the films really, as they came up with the character we're watching between them.
  • Posts: 6,430
    I actually think that’d be a lovely tribute if the next film had ‘x as Ian Fleming and EON Production’s James Bond’ in the titles. But I doubt it would happen.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 7,048
    mtm wrote: »
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    Licence is the movie they should've made after OHMSS.

    Two murdered wives in successive films..? Doubt it!


    "He was married once. It was a long time ago. And his wife got murdered on their wedding day; good thing that's not going to happen to us!"

    ME1C1C1H_o.jpg

    In a sense, Glen was forever remaking or following up his OHMSS experience. His sacrificial lambs hit a lot harder than most.
  • Posts: 6,430
    I don't know if this is a controversial opinion, but it's a fun thought I had which a friend of mine who's a gamer (and hyped for First Light) inspired.

    The next Bond should make an effort to grunt and/or make those distinctive sounds or facial reactions during action sequences (think Moore's 'ooofs' when he got hit or Craig's occasional grunts, and even Brosnan's 'pain faces'). This friend mentioned that they liked this aspect of Patrick Gibson's performance in the First Light demos with him grunting and making certain breathing sounds etc. I watched it recently and I must say it works. So if the next Bond has a similar distinctive 'war cry' I think that'd be cool.
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