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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    I don’t see what is wrong with a meat and potatoes director. In fact, I wish more like Glen had helmed a Bond film. Especially if thy can create something as good as TLD.

    Glen to me is simply adequate. He’s not rocking the boat, but he gets the job done on decent installments which is more than I can say for some of his successors like Spottiswoode, Apted, Tamahori, and Forster.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,294
    He may have been a bit of a "meat and potatoes" kind of director, but I really, really love the Glen films. Sometimes a steady pair of hands is just as good as an edgy/artsy director, IMO.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,896
    Wooster deserves his share of applause, but he worked closely under Glen's supervision, and Glen was closely involved in the invention, planning, and storyboarding of acrtion. Glen is also the man who shot the bobsled run and much of the ski chase in OHMSS, so it's clear that he was an excellent action director. Just as Hunt worked closely with his second unit to get terrific results, so Glen with Wooster.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    echo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I can’t imagine a Terence Young GF being an improvement. Part of the charm of GF is that Hamilton takes the comic booky aspects of the novel and accentuates it. I’m not sure a harder edged GF would have boded well. Part of why TB doesn’t work so well for me is because it felt like Young was attempting to capture that feel that GF had but he didn’t have the same sensibilities of Hamilton to make it sing, so it felt awkward. TB might have played better to his strengths if he went back to FRWL mold of sticking closer to the book, but I guess EON just wanted another GF hit.

    Not sure that particular aspect was Terence's fault. He directed what was on the page. And the setting obviously helps, but TB was far more visually sumptuous than GF.

    I don’t think Young is at fault, other than walking off the film after filming finished. EON wanted a GF type film with TB so that’s what Young delivered to the best of his ability.
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Thunderball wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Guy Hamilton is the George Lucas of Bond directors: one hit, three mixed bags.

    Totally agree. I always found him really overrated among Bond directors. If he had only directed GF, then sure, I could see the immense praise. He’d be almost as good as Peter Hunt, were he a one-timer. But no, as he went on, he kept pushing Bond more and more into the ridiculous. Only Gilbert and Tamahori went more silly.
    I vastly prefer Terrence Young, not to mention Martin Campbell, John Glen, as well as the previously mentioned Hunt.

    Agreed on Hamilton. His films don't really show any directoral flair. Even Goldfinger is fairly pedestrian looking. Terence Young clearly had a great eye for a shot and Lewis Gilbert had the David Lean-esque wide shooting in TSWLM and YOLT. Even Jon Glen at least showed some skill in the action scenes of his films.

    I think you underestimate his work in GF. His later work was no doubt lazy, but he was a very good visual director with GF, like how he gave the dinner scene visual cues to underline the exposition of gold smuggling.

    And also look at the pacing of GF, and that he had a smaller budget than most, if not all, of the films that followed. In GF Hamilton amazingly zips along, creating iconic moment to iconic moment along the way--sea bird on head to "Positively shocking" to gin rummy game to Golden Girl to golf game to Aston chase to Oddjob/Tilly to laser scene, and on and on and on.

    I think it's fair game to slag Hamilton for his latter films...but not GF.

    But surely, most, if not all of that was in the script? So we can thank Maibuam for that, not Guy..
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    He may have been a bit of a "meat and potatoes" kind of director, but I really, really love the Glen films. Sometimes a steady pair of hands is just as good as an edgy/artsy director, IMO.

    I would agree on this. As Apted, Tamahori and Forster showed.
  • petergreenhill5petergreenhill5
    Posts: 824

    I realise that 'The Spy Who Loved Me' is a film that many Bond fans cherish and may have been their initial contact with the Bond universe. I fully respect that point of view but having watched the film last night I honestly feel this is a a weak doodoo entry in the series. On the positive side, the pre-credit sequence is spectacular and a great opening. The Hamlish/Bayer Sager song, Nobody Does It Better' is one of the best Bond songs and Jaws is less annoying than I recall.

    However, this is Bond by numbers, the plot is basically a rerun of You Only Live Twice, submarines instead of space casules, underwater city instead of volcano, Yet again a treacherous underling is thrown to a shark. Barbara Bach is less than convincing as a Russian agent. So convenient of Naomi played by Caroline Munro to position her helicopter over the underwater Lotus and hold it there so that Bond can destroy it with some kind of missile.

    The early Bond movies were groundbreaking and trendsetting. Bond was a new kind of cinematic hero. By the mid 70s the series had declined into formulaic recycling.

    By the mid 70s, the best book plots had been used. Writers were faced with a large pile of blank paper to fill and there was clearly a lack of ideas. It seemed to me that Roger Moore did very little action work. Even the most basic and simple stunts had doubles. I won't even start to go on about the racism and sexism.

    I am so glad that John Barry didn't score this one. Still unable to work in UK because of tax liabilities. Marvin Hamlisch took on scoring duties and earned an Oscar nomination for the song. Had he scored TSWLM, Barry would have been unable to score The Deep, which may not be the best film ever made but John gives it a superb score. Dark and tense but with a disco style song...... It would imho have been a real pity to have lost The Deep for another Bond score. By 1971 Barry had completed his best Bond work His final five all have some great cues but he never included them in his concert Bond suite though he did conduct All Time High as a stand alone concert piece.

    I enjoyed this film when I saw in 1977 but it appears very clunky today.....imo.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    petergreenhill5 wrote: »
    I realise that 'The Spy Who Loved Me' is a film that many Bond fans cherish and may have been their initial contact with the Bond universe. I fully respect that point of view but having watched the film last night I honestly feel this is a a weak doodoo entry in the series. On the positive side, the pre-credit sequence is spectacular and a great opening. The Hamlish/Bayer Sager song, Nobody Does It Better' is one of the best Bond songs and Jaws is less annoying than I recall.

    However, this is Bond by numbers, the plot is basically a rerun of You Only Live Twice, submarines instead of space casules, underwater city instead of volcano, Yet again a treacherous underling is thrown to a shark. Barbara Bach is less than convincing as a Russian agent. So convenient of Naomi played by Caroline Munro to position her helicopter over the underwater Lotus and hold it there so that Bond can destroy it with some kind of missile.

    The early Bond movies were groundbreaking and trendsetting. Bond was a new kind of cinematic hero. By the mid 70s the series had declined into formulaic recycling.

    By the mid 70s, the best book plots had been used. Writers were faced with a large pile of blank paper to fill and there was clearly a lack of ideas. It seemed to me that Roger Moore did very little action work. Even the most basic and simple stunts had doubles. I won't even start to go on about the racism and sexism.

    I am so glad that John Barry didn't score this one. Still unable to work in UK because of tax liabilities. Marvin Hamlisch took on scoring duties and earned an Oscar nomination for the song. Had he scored TSWLM, Barry would have been unable to score The Deep, which may not be the best film ever made but John gives it a superb score. Dark and tense but with a disco style song...... It would imho have been a real pity to have lost The Deep for another Bond score. By 1971 Barry had completed his best Bond work His final five all have some great cues but he never included them in his concert Bond suite though he did conduct All Time High as a stand alone concert piece.

    I enjoyed this film when I saw in 1977 but it appears very clunky today.....imo.

    It's my all time favourite Bond film! I absolutely adore it. If I could find a small criticism, Stromberg is a fairly weak villain, and it does copy a few of the beats of YOLT. Also, although the score is perfectly serviceable, John Barry would have undoubtedly made it stronger.

    Other than that, it's nigh on perfect. No Bond film has done it better, if you will pardon the pun.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited August 2020 Posts: 17,294
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    TSWLM > YOLT
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,270
    I also definitely prefer TSWLM over YOLT, mainly for the superior Bond performance (Moore in his prime vs. Connery’s least interested outing). They’re both very fun, epic Bond films, but I feel like TSWLM captured it the best overall. The 70s flare is really strong but awesome, and the silly tone is right at home with the over the top style.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Agree with you all. The only thing YOLT has going for it over Spy is the score. Other than that it's a complete whitewash..
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,835
    petergreenhill5 wrote: »
    I realise that 'The Spy Who Loved Me' is a film that many Bond fans cherish and may have been their initial contact with the Bond universe. I fully respect that point of view but having watched the film last night I honestly feel this is a a weak doodoo entry in the series. On the positive side, the pre-credit sequence is spectacular and a great opening. The Hamlish/Bayer Sager song, Nobody Does It Better' is one of the best Bond songs and Jaws is less annoying than I recall.

    However, this is Bond by numbers, the plot is basically a rerun of You Only Live Twice, submarines instead of space casules, underwater city instead of volcano, Yet again a treacherous underling is thrown to a shark. Barbara Bach is less than convincing as a Russian agent. So convenient of Naomi played by Caroline Munro to position her helicopter over the underwater Lotus and hold it there so that Bond can destroy it with some kind of missile.

    The early Bond movies were groundbreaking and trendsetting. Bond was a new kind of cinematic hero. By the mid 70s the series had declined into formulaic recycling.

    By the mid 70s, the best book plots had been used. Writers were faced with a large pile of blank paper to fill and there was clearly a lack of ideas. It seemed to me that Roger Moore did very little action work. Even the most basic and simple stunts had doubles. I won't even start to go on about the racism and sexism.

    I am so glad that John Barry didn't score this one. Still unable to work in UK because of tax liabilities. Marvin Hamlisch took on scoring duties and earned an Oscar nomination for the song. Had he scored TSWLM, Barry would have been unable to score The Deep, which may not be the best film ever made but John gives it a superb score. Dark and tense but with a disco style song...... It would imho have been a real pity to have lost The Deep for another Bond score. By 1971 Barry had completed his best Bond work His final five all have some great cues but he never included them in his concert Bond suite though he did conduct All Time High as a stand alone concert piece.

    I enjoyed this film when I saw in 1977 but it appears very clunky today.....imo.

    I agree. I understand why TSWLM was popular in its time, I understand that casual viewers love it, but I'm always very surprised that so many Bond fans love it so much. It has a few good elements, but it's far too cartoonish and is maybe the most recycled Bond movie.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Ludovico wrote: »
    petergreenhill5 wrote: »
    I realise that 'The Spy Who Loved Me' is a film that many Bond fans cherish and may have been their initial contact with the Bond universe. I fully respect that point of view but having watched the film last night I honestly feel this is a a weak doodoo entry in the series. On the positive side, the pre-credit sequence is spectacular and a great opening. The Hamlish/Bayer Sager song, Nobody Does It Better' is one of the best Bond songs and Jaws is less annoying than I recall.

    However, this is Bond by numbers, the plot is basically a rerun of You Only Live Twice, submarines instead of space casules, underwater city instead of volcano, Yet again a treacherous underling is thrown to a shark. Barbara Bach is less than convincing as a Russian agent. So convenient of Naomi played by Caroline Munro to position her helicopter over the underwater Lotus and hold it there so that Bond can destroy it with some kind of missile.

    The early Bond movies were groundbreaking and trendsetting. Bond was a new kind of cinematic hero. By the mid 70s the series had declined into formulaic recycling.

    By the mid 70s, the best book plots had been used. Writers were faced with a large pile of blank paper to fill and there was clearly a lack of ideas. It seemed to me that Roger Moore did very little action work. Even the most basic and simple stunts had doubles. I won't even start to go on about the racism and sexism.

    I am so glad that John Barry didn't score this one. Still unable to work in UK because of tax liabilities. Marvin Hamlisch took on scoring duties and earned an Oscar nomination for the song. Had he scored TSWLM, Barry would have been unable to score The Deep, which may not be the best film ever made but John gives it a superb score. Dark and tense but with a disco style song...... It would imho have been a real pity to have lost The Deep for another Bond score. By 1971 Barry had completed his best Bond work His final five all have some great cues but he never included them in his concert Bond suite though he did conduct All Time High as a stand alone concert piece.

    I enjoyed this film when I saw in 1977 but it appears very clunky today.....imo.

    I agree. I understand why TSWLM was popular in its time, I understand that casual viewers love it, but I'm always very surprised that so many Bond fans love it so much. It has a few good elements, but it's far too cartoonish and is maybe the most recycled Bond movie.

    It's the ultimate 'epic' Bond film, for me. My favourite of the whole series. I could literally watch it once a week, and not grow tired of it.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    First time poster here. I’m not sure if these are considered controversial so I apologise in advance :

    TLD is one of the very best Bond movies. The only thing that holds it back from the absolute top tier is a relatively weak roster of villains.

    DAD, whist by no means a great movie, is a much more enjoyable film than TND and TWINE. Most significantly for me, Brosnan gives a fantastic performance as Bond in that movie

    TND on the other hand is the least enjoyable of all the EON movies. It’s the only one I can’t think of anything positive to say about it.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,115
    TSWLM has some major pacing issues, particularly in the last act. It feels like one of the slowest adventures. Jaws is enjoyable.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    TSWLM is a strange one for me. Barbara Bach gives a hilariously wooden performance but somehow at the same time seems to have great chemistry with Moore. I agree about the final act pacing issues. I much prefer MR in that respect.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Speaking of GF, the one thing that always bothered me a bit about an otherwise great entry is its location work. DN offered us Jamaica, FRWL the Balkans, TB the Bahamas and YOLT went to Japan. But not only did those stories go there, you felt like you were actually in those places with Bond.

    GF brings us Miami hotel background projection in all its fake glory and rather dull Kentucky ranches or diners. You'd think Switzerland would make up for that but even that beautiful country doesn't feel as magic as it felt later on in OHMSS. GF does a lot right, but atmosphere isn't its strongest point.

    You have a good point here. A majority of it is Pinewood-bound, which isn't a bad thing as the Fort Knox set is a knockout in any era and if you can use the studio buildings to stand in for Goldfinger's Swiss factory, great idea and it makes the accountants happy.

    But the locations are among the weakest in any of the films. They seemed to be really excited to have a KFC restaurant to make the Kentucky scenes more authentic? It was a different time.

    I will say that while the locations aren't great, to the creative team's credit, gold becomes a character, much like the water in TB, snow in OHMSS and Japan in YOLT do. Those early films really took such things and ran with them.
    echo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I can’t imagine a Terence Young GF being an improvement. Part of the charm of GF is that Hamilton takes the comic booky aspects of the novel and accentuates it. I’m not sure a harder edged GF would have boded well. Part of why TB doesn’t work so well for me is because it felt like Young was attempting to capture that feel that GF had but he didn’t have the same sensibilities of Hamilton to make it sing, so it felt awkward. TB might have played better to his strengths if he went back to FRWL mold of sticking closer to the book, but I guess EON just wanted another GF hit.

    Not sure that particular aspect was Terence's fault. He directed what was on the page. And the setting obviously helps, but TB was far more visually sumptuous than GF.

    I don’t think Young is at fault, other than walking off the film after filming finished. EON wanted a GF type film with TB so that’s what Young delivered to the best of his ability.
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Thunderball wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Guy Hamilton is the George Lucas of Bond directors: one hit, three mixed bags.

    Totally agree. I always found him really overrated among Bond directors. If he had only directed GF, then sure, I could see the immense praise. He’d be almost as good as Peter Hunt, were he a one-timer. But no, as he went on, he kept pushing Bond more and more into the ridiculous. Only Gilbert and Tamahori went more silly.
    I vastly prefer Terrence Young, not to mention Martin Campbell, John Glen, as well as the previously mentioned Hunt.

    Agreed on Hamilton. His films don't really show any directoral flair. Even Goldfinger is fairly pedestrian looking. Terence Young clearly had a great eye for a shot and Lewis Gilbert had the David Lean-esque wide shooting in TSWLM and YOLT. Even Jon Glen at least showed some skill in the action scenes of his films.

    I think you underestimate his work in GF. His later work was no doubt lazy, but he was a very good visual director with GF, like how he gave the dinner scene visual cues to underline the exposition of gold smuggling.

    And also look at the pacing of GF, and that he had a smaller budget than most, if not all, of the films that followed. In GF Hamilton amazingly zips along, creating iconic moment to iconic moment along the way--sea bird on head to "Positively shocking" to gin rummy game to Golden Girl to golf game to Aston chase to Oddjob/Tilly to laser scene, and on and on and on.

    I think it's fair game to slag Hamilton for his latter films...but not GF.

    I'll argue against the pacing in GF. The Swiss scenes seem to drag a lot until Bond gets to the factory at night. Then the scenes at the stud farm do too. It's escapes and recaptures, fake gangster accents and very little suspense in will Bond get word out about the raid. The car-crushing scene also seems unnecessary.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited August 2020 Posts: 2,609
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Speaking of GF, the one thing that always bothered me a bit about an otherwise great entry is its location work. DN offered us Jamaica, FRWL the Balkans, TB the Bahamas and YOLT went to Japan. But not only did those stories go there, you felt like you were actually in those places with Bond.

    GF brings us Miami hotel background projection in all its fake glory and rather dull Kentucky ranches or diners. You'd think Switzerland would make up for that but even that beautiful country doesn't feel as magic as it felt later on in OHMSS. GF does a lot right, but atmosphere isn't its strongest point.
    Interesting points, but I disagree with several of them. The Bahamas are a great location, in theory, but most of the scenes are in a village/town setting, at night or underwater, so we see very little of their beauty. Same with FRWL where we see very little of the (EDIT: Pseudo-)Balkans and with OHMSS where we see quite little of Switzerland's magnificence.
    The GF daytime sequence with Tilly, on the other hand, really gives me a 'Switzerland feeling', and I like the sunny Kentucky atmosphere. While admitting that Fort Knox isn't all that good as a setting for the finale.
    I agree, btw, that gold is like a character in GF and used in a good way.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,697
    I've certainly said it before somewhere, but in 1964, for most of the world's population Kentucky was just as exotic and unaffordable as Jamaica or the Bahamas or Japan, and for Europeans certainly more so than Switzerland. This was a time when the U.S. was not just another vacation location, but for many, the land of dreams (even just to travel there), and far away. Nobody cared about or would have known the difference between Kentucky or any other state, and at least there were several exterior shots of the real thing - quite unlike FRWL (which is perennially my favourite Bond film, but still), where there is not a single piece of footage actually filmed on "the Balkans", unless you count Istanbul (also less of a challenge to Europeans at the time). Even the final boat chase was filmed in Scotland, and boy, were they lucky that at least the sun seems to have been shining to mimic the Adriatic Sea.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,790
    Some fair points there chaps. I see where you are coming from. Might be a question of personal preference too of course, GF has always felt a little 'colourless' to me, but then again it did have some amazing set design to make up for that.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    Controversial opinion:

    I think GOLDFINGER is not only one of the best Bond films, but one of the greatest movies ever made in cinema history.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,115
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I think GOLDFINGER is not only one of the best Bond films, but one of the greatest movies ever made in cinema history.

    Not really controversial, here anyway. It does have one of the great villains, henchmen and leading ladies in cinema history. I wouldn’t be surprised if all three came back in a EON film at some point. Anthony Horowitz and Greg Pak have already done it for all three of them.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    DraxCucumberSandwich wrote: »
    First time poster here. I’m not sure if these are considered controversial so I apologise in advance :

    TLD is one of the very best Bond movies. The only thing that holds it back from the absolute top tier is a relatively weak roster of villains.

    DAD, whist by no means a great movie, is a much more enjoyable film than TND and TWINE. Most significantly for me, Brosnan gives a fantastic performance as Bond in that movie

    TND on the other hand is the least enjoyable of all the EON movies. It’s the only one I can’t think of anything positive to say about it.

    All of this 100%

    Though I’d put TWINE on the bottom for being a very limp attempt at OHMSS.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Agree with all this.TSWLM is far and away my favourite Bond film and never gets old for me!

    And i dont get this racism complaint that petergreenhill mentions.How is it racist?

    As for the sexism,if that troubles you,its hard to believe you enjoy ANY Bond film! The sexism is,if all us heterosexual guys admit it,part of the fun of watching these movies.ESPECIALLY now where PC has gone to ridiculous levels in the movie and tv industry.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Sexism is fun. Got it.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited August 2020 Posts: 17,294
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Agree with all this.TSWLM is far and away my favourite Bond film and never gets old for me!

    And i dont get this racism complaint that petergreenhill mentions.How is it racist?

    As for the sexism,if that troubles you,its hard to believe you enjoy ANY Bond film! The sexism is,if all us heterosexual guys admit it,part of the fun of watching these movies.ESPECIALLY now where PC has gone to ridiculous levels in the movie and tv industry.

    Me neither! It's a go-to Bond film for me, even though it's not my favourite – or my favourite Moore Bond film either.

    Of the top of my head, I imagine it's the "Egyptian builders" line, @petergreenhill5 refers to? As for sexism, TSWLM is hardly the worst entry, IMO.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Agree with all this.TSWLM is far and away my favourite Bond film and never gets old for me!

    And i dont get this racism complaint that petergreenhill mentions.How is it racist?

    As for the sexism,if that troubles you,its hard to believe you enjoy ANY Bond film! The sexism is,if all us heterosexual guys admit it,part of the fun of watching these movies.ESPECIALLY now where PC has gone to ridiculous levels in the movie and tv industry.

    Me neither! It's a go-to Bond film for me, even though it's not my favourite – or my favourite Moore Bond film either.

    Of the top of my head, I imagine it's the "Egyptian builders" line, @petergreenhill5 refers to? As for sexism, TSWLM is hardly the worst entry, IMO.

    TSWLM is one of the best Bond films as far as feminism goes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    It was definitely the first instance in the franchise where Bond was portrayed as a man of the past, which was an undercurrent from the novels that was largely ignored in the films. Here is James Bond being paired with 70s feminism.

    The only bit that doesn’t play well is that Anya gets reduced to a damsel in distress at the end. Even Bond ladies showed more self reliance in Fleming’s novels. Another reason why I think MR is the better film: Holly Goodhead doesn’t become a damsel in distress, she’s up to the end pretty vital to helping Bond stop Drax’s plot.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    I think it's more controversial to prefer YOLT and/or MR to TSWLM(which I do although I love all 3 Lewis Gilbert-directed Bond films)
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Love that moment too. In fact I love all of Caroline's moments as Naomi in TSWLM and wish her role was larger.

  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,294
    echo wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Agree with all this.TSWLM is far and away my favourite Bond film and never gets old for me!

    And i dont get this racism complaint that petergreenhill mentions.How is it racist?

    As for the sexism,if that troubles you,its hard to believe you enjoy ANY Bond film! The sexism is,if all us heterosexual guys admit it,part of the fun of watching these movies.ESPECIALLY now where PC has gone to ridiculous levels in the movie and tv industry.

    Me neither! It's a go-to Bond film for me, even though it's not my favourite – or my favourite Moore Bond film either.

    Of the top of my head, I imagine it's the "Egyptian builders" line, @petergreenhill5 refers to? As for sexism, TSWLM is hardly the worst entry, IMO.

    TSWLM is one of the best Bond films as far as feminism goes.

    Certainly. I love the moment we first see Anya, and where she's introduced as Agent Triple X. I have to agree with @MakeshiftPython point about her being reduced to a damsel in distress, though.
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Despite some similarities, I much prefer TSWLM to YOLT.

    I think it's more controversial to prefer YOLT and/or MR to TSWLM(which I do although I love all 3 Lewis Gilbert-directed Bond films)

    I struggle with YOLT and MR personally (it's the only entries featuring Connery and Moore I've never really enjoyed that much), but Lewis Gilbert makes up for that with TSWLM, which has always been in my top ten.
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    It's such a gem of a film, and this little moment alone is almost enough to place TSWLM in my top ten* :))

    vzuvlr.gif

    (*which it is, by the way)

    Love that moment too. In fact I love all of Caroline's moments as Naomi in TSWLM and wish her role was larger.

    It's one of few niggles I have with TSWLM; I wish Caroline Munro could have had a bigger role. A 70's Xenia Onatopp or something like that.
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