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While I can applaud them for wanting to try something different, the attempt at character development was no more than a thin veneer.
In contrast, despite what many here think of it, DAD was the style of Bond movie that appealed far more to the American audience of the day, and, according to Box Office Mojo, it pulled in slightly more money there than NTTD, despite being 20 years older (I know there was Covid, but it also pulled in almost as much money as CR and QOS in the USA)
For me though, I think they tried too hard to pack in as much as possible and be bigger and flashier than ever before, as it was the 40th anniversary edition.
So on the one hand there is TWINE, aspiring to emulate FRWL / OHMSS (or any given Craig episode) and not really pulling it off, while still providing plenty of good wholesome James Bond entertainment
While on the other there is DAD, trying to be the next GF / YOLT / TSWLM / MR, which can a bit rich for many, while still providing plenty of good wholesome James Bond entertainment.
I think I'll go with TWINE today
Some nice updates on the gadgetry too. Did you know that his wristwatch emitting the laser from the crown (instead of bezel) can be seen in the unfinished GoldenEye comic, where he escapes from the missile train, and that if you look at the DAD watch's laser beam in 4K it's actually two beams twisting around each other like a DNA helix.
Agreed, while TWINE undoubtedly features Brozza's most diverse performance, it's DAD that shows him most comfortable and assured. I feel a similar way about TND. A standout moment for me is when after he and Raoul examine the diamonds he states, "What an amazing coincidence!" and ends the scene by giving Raoul a certain look with cigar in hand. In fact, one thing you can't say about DAD is that any of the performances were under-acted.
I distinctly remember coming out the cinema completely buzzing after DAD. For all its faults, it certainly wasn't a boring ride. I think seeing it on a big screen in 2002 was a whole different experience than watching it at home in the post-Craig era. It filled the screen with action and I thought Pierce was super-cool in it.
It's a big, daft, silly, Moore-era throwback that I enjoy more than TWINE.
I remember laughing at, not with, DAD in the cinema with another Bond afishanaddo. Our laughter soon caught on. After one raucous cheer went up, another patron bellowed 'Shite!' so loudly the little theatre exploded and we couldn't hear the 'dialogue'.
It was, is and forever shall be an abomination. Still haven't forgiven Pierce. Never will.
I think it’s very much a case of execution. There’s no reason they couldn’t have been great Bond films.
DAD has a real potential really, the interesting concept is there lying underneath (those plot points you've mentioned) with some rewrites, could've been great.
I'm not sure if there's anything to be done on TWINE, I think they've tried doing everything in that film (it's even a case of making a cake and eat it too, they've put all in there like the drama aspect of Bond and Elektra, the love triangle between Bond and Renard, building up the threat of Renard starting from that Cigar Girl in PTS, the plot twist regarding Elektra, M in danger) I think whatever the film tried to aim was done (getting Brosnan to have his hand at 'human Bond' and drama) I don't know what else could be done in that film, what happened with TWINE was the same case and thing happened to NTTD (it's too overstuffed, they've overdramatized things but there are no rooms for the other plot points to breathe), and in both films, there's nothing else to be done, maybe tweak some things a bit or cut out some scenes so other plot points would be developed? Maybe that could make TWINE better.
But yes on DAD, it's definitely a missed opportunity of a Bond film, those ideas were there but butchered and buried beneath the over the top aspects and Grandiosity of the film.
Even watching it on my phone, the film is still energizing and very adrenaline rush, it's really cinematic, I think the cinematography of DAD could still go up against the action movies of today.
I agree, and maybe it's only me but for Jinx's flaws, Halle Berry and Brosnan did have some chemistry, compare to the pairing with Michelle Yeoh, Halle Berry's chemistry with Brosnan was really there.
DAD is stuck with being an anniversary picture (sf is too, it's not as bad, though), but it is exceptional in how badly it is executed. Hiring Tamahori to direct says the producers wanted a cgi laden shitfest (the car crash from Along Came A Spider) to fight off the likes of XXX, prevalent box-office bonanza but utter garbage.
The post 9-11 'we are the free world' subplot is an unsophisticated pile of steaming dogturd. I'm not an agent of North Korea, I'm too lazy and hate basketball, but dear god I nearly moved to Pyongyang after one sitting of dad. One.
TWINE is the superior film because it insists on character building, but was itself stymied by another curious infirmity: keeping the n64 audience accumulated from the glorious GoldenEye game (top tier film, too) happy with silly choppers and parahawk pursuits. En oh.
I love Pierce's overacting in it. He really shouzldn't be living here, let me tell you. 'Look at me!' tomElektra, I'm surprised she didn't just knee him in the nads having laughed at his schtick. Robert Carlyle was a revelation. Who'd a thunk he of all people could convey intense misfit.
I’d say if you took the TWINE script as it is (yes, Christmas puns and all) and do it with an alternative director, replace Carlyle (I disagree with you unfortunately - I think he’s miscast in this), and in general give it a slightly different vision, it could be a great Bond film. Not a perfect one, but better than what we got.
DAD I think needed a bit more work. But overall I find it the better watch, even if it’s naff at points.
LOL. Marceau's lines are no better but she is a better actor. "This is my oil! Mine!"
I'm shocked that RT's reviews say TWINE's action sequences are a highlight. Really? After the overlong PTS, it's all downhill I think.
And it's again not unlike SF in that, as it goes on, it has action-adjacent sequences more than action sequences.
The problem with TWINE is how pretentious it is, it's too much overstuffed to prove itself that it's dramatic, thinking that with too many dramatic aspects and elements in it, it could work, but didn't.
And with that pretentiousness, comes with sluggishness and slow pacing that some scenes could've been cut for a quicker watch or enliven some things a bit instead on over decorating just to say "oh it's so dramatic", even FRWL is a more of a quicker watch than TWINE because there are many essential scenes happened in that film compared to TWINE which seemed the only job was to build up the drama to a more greater effect and after all of that, only for the film to end up with "I thought Christmas only comes once a year".
DAD have many flaws, many many flaws moreso than TWINE, but it's a film not taking seriously, it's a film never tried to be too much, the film just gave the audience a fun Bond, a generic action film in the same way TND did, and for that, it's far more entertaining than TWINE, it's not frustrating, because it's a film where one could just sit down and watch without having to expect much.
Compared to the likes of DAF, TMWTGG, or AVTAK, DAD has good cinematography, effects, good action, Brosnan was great in the film (more energetic and enthusiastic in the role) and has good chemistry with Halle Berry, and not dated, it could still go up with some action films of today because even though it's released in 2000s, the cinematography and effects are still very modern looking, I mean that chase scene in Iceland between a Jaguar and Aston Martin could still go up with any new/recent Mission Impossible Films.
I still liked TWINE and still watch it if my mood agrees, I liked Sophie Marceau and I applaud Brosnan for trying his hand at some more human Bond (yes, I do personally think he's far more convincing at doing the romantic and dramatic scenes than Moore did in FYEO) and I know that DAD became the laughing stock of Bond films, but if I want to watch a Bond film for enjoyment and adrenaline rush after the likes of Mission Impossible and other Spy Action Films, no doubt DAD would've granted me that.
I'm all for a character building in Bond films, I love OHMSS, the Dalton Films, Casino Royale (even though I'm not at all on board with that Third Act in Venice), Quantum Of Solace, and Skyfall, and I'm the strange one who thinks that Moonraker marked the character progression for Moore's Bond from being an insensitive boy seducing every women he saw to a man who feels fear, respects and protects women and showed some seriousness not ego or arrogance that continued for the subsequent films after it (FYEO, OP, and AVTAK), but in the case of TWINE, it's more of a case of being overstuffed, typical of what happened to NTTD (although I prefer TWINE to NTTD).
Reckon Skyfall doesn't belong in that list. The characters it builds are plot devices. It makes zero sense as a film and isn't enough of a spectacle. The humour isn't humour. More a massive smugathon.
I've stated dad and sf mingle, but you've made a better point with Twine. It clearly wants to build characters, especially women, but fails due to poor plotting and a workmanlike script. Can't bloviate its way out either, as the plot isn't a jingoistic mess.
Can we have a list of pretentious Bonds? If not one done already?
There is not a single iota of originality in that codpiece. Not one. None.
Bond used to excel at home and abroad, above, beyond or even behind, but dad is none of these things. It's a coke binge of Bond tropes and smug, sanctimonious self-congratulation. A turgid mess of epic proportions.
Yes, it's annoying when people don't agree with your opinion, isn't it? ;)
Trust me, I'm sympathetic, haha.
All I can say is that if those naysayers just abandoned their own position and endorsed my take implicitly, they'll soon find I'm absolutely right, chief.
Joking obviously love the craic!
Like I said I'm sympathetic! And I suspect we can all relate in our own way.
Yes.
Would you rather watch OP (42%) OR TMWTGG (40%)
After the grounded FYEO it was decided to go back to a bigger action adventure movie. OP was going to have competition...Bond and as such it was marketed as "An All Time High". A true Cold War adventure Bond is dressed as a clown, a bomb is smuggled along with Russian jewels. We have one villain chewing up the scenery with Berkoff playing Orlov with aplomb. Good chemistry with Adams.
Rotten Tomatoes says Despite a couple of electrifying action sequences, Octopussy is a formulaic, anachronistic Bond outing.
OR
Bond being hunted! A different tone was attempted with this film and some of it works. We have a chramistic villain played note-perfect by Christopher Lee. A great location in Thailand and some really wonderful locations. Nick Nack and his tobasco nearly steal the show.
Rotten Tomatoes says A middling Bond film, The Man With the Golden Gun suffers from double entendre-laden dialogue, a noteworthy lack of gadgets, and a villain that overshadows 007.
Which one is going on your screen?
Each and every day of the week. It's dead on. TMWTGG has Rodge smacking Maud Adams about and suitcasing dwarves for kicks.
I'd rather be kept in curry.
Stop holding back and tell me what you really think...
Or just accept that many people like it and you won't change their opinion by ranting about it over and over (and over)
For me OP is a frustrating mix of very good and very bad, whereas TMWTGG is mainly bad with Christopher Lee being a rare positive
So it's OP all the way for me
TMWTGG starts really well, and has a great villain, but it could have been so much more.
OP for the win!
Loved the 009 and nuclear device chases. Excellent.
Sometimes one of them are my 10th favorite and then other one is ranked 11. On this moment i prefer Octopussy as 10. Like TLD, Octopussy has chacter that i don't like. TLD music is my favorite John Barry score and one of the reasen's why TLD is ranked 9, whyle OP score is very good too. TMWTGG music is for me on same level as music of AVTAK.