Would you rather Bond26 be a "Bond Begins" adventure OR a "Bond is Bond" adventure?

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  • edited August 5 Posts: 15,978
    GE, easily. Not only because I prefer it as a movie, but because it's a more successful movie. And the next Bond needs a GE, not a TLD.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,650
    TLD. With a stronger villain, more threatening villain's caper, and a bigger ending.

    Adventurous and fun. And the drama can come from the Bond Girl or another character, rather than Bond's own history.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,760
    GE. I feel that it was a harder reboot than TLD and that's what I feel is needed now
  • The two aren’t really dissimilar from each other in tone are they?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,020
    There are similarities between the two @007ClassicBondFan but I think they were going for a different tone. TLD has more of a romantic feel as there is really only Kara has a female character. The film has scenes that are meant to develop characters. I think of the fair scenes with Kara and the Ferris Wheel, the death of Saunders and the comedy of Bond winning at the shooting games. GE to me has more action and more "set pieces" the tank chase, the big stunt at the beginning, the whole dish sequence. I am not sure if anything in TLD touches on the scale of GE.

    I'd dare say that the budget of GE is on the screen. I think the film looks more expensive than it was. TLD to me was the last true classic Bond adventure. Barry supplying his last soundtrack, a script that has the tropes of Bond but freshens them up, so while Bond dons the tux it isn't for a casino sequence.
  • Posts: 1,975
    TLD. It was such a refreshing take on Bond back in '87. It was what I wanted and still want out of a Bond film.

    Although GE was the big presentation after the 6-year gap, it just didn't satisfy the way TLD did. After two Dalton films that were more Fleming-based, we're back to more of what would please the widest audience: the space hardware manipulated by a disfigured villain, another renegade Russian general, an outrageous henchwoman and on top of that there were of all the updates for the time that got the film off to such a slow start.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,722
    Either is fine. I don't think they are that different in tone. Both mix serious aspects with a bit of humour.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,309
    Both definitely close in tone, but GE has a bit more fantasy. Gonna go with TLD just because of the stronger espionage angle and intricate plot.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 4,071
    Goldeneye would be my pick to introduce the new Bond.

    TLD was more like of being unsure about who will actually play the part (whether continuing the direction where Moore had left off, or change the tone entirely, funnily enough, Brosnan was considered for TLD), while playing it safe with all the tropes present in, but as a result, it came off as convoluted, quite confused of which tone it would play.

    Meanwhile, GE have managed to balanced the tone more between seriousness, drama, and Cold War Thriller, while keeping the elements that made Bond special, it's the 'certain' debut Bond film of the two.

    And like Judi Dench M said: "I miss the Cold War", it's been overdue.
  • edited August 6 Posts: 5,716
    They’re not miles away from each other in many ways, especially in terms of story similarities (GE has a lot of roots in the Dalton era). That said I’ve never been TLD’s biggest admirer, as much as I enjoy it. The villains are generally weak, some of it feels underbaked (Leiter’s inclusion, Kara etc), and in terms of atmosphere/tone it’s not quite as impactful for me as GE.

    GE is a much more mature Bond film in my opinion. You get this wonderful blend of darkness, sadistic violence, and grittiness, mixed with the usual humour and outlandishness of Bond. Cinematography wise it’s more atmospheric, and as others have said its budget is clearly onscreen. It just feels more like what I’d expect from a modern Bond film.

    That said I hope the score of the next film will be more TLD than GE!
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,841
    I love both films so much. Maybe if it was like the first hour of Daylights, with the freshness of Goldeneye
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,820
    Funny how the PTS of TLD & GE are almost similar...down to Bond's black combat outfit and aerial action. Plus, both films have Bond in a tuxedo at night, doing spy work...after the PTS.
  • edited August 6 Posts: 1,236
    I don't think they're too far off tonally, but I think Goldeney felt fresh and new and exciting. TLD set out to do some similar things but there was a little bit too much of the filmmaking DNA and creative voice of the past few Roger Moore films that it didn't feel as revitalized as it probably sounded on paper. I imagine it would be similar to if we had Purvis & Wade, Babs and Michael, and Sam Mendes reboot Bond 26. I'm sure there'd be some new and interesting ideas but I think there would be an element of familiarity and staleness that would probably carry over despite their best intentions.

    That being said, I do like the idea of not having a former 00 agent or friend from Bond/M's past being a focal point of the story, so I would probably prefer if it mirrored TLD a bit more as far as plot is concerned.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited August 6 Posts: 724
    x
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,761
    Funny how the PTS of TLD & GE are almost similar...down to Bond's black combat outfit and aerial action. Plus, both films have Bond in a tuxedo at night, doing spy work...after the PTS.

    I guess it's a good way to introduce a new Bond: show the action and classic dinner suit versions of him straight away.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited August 6 Posts: 724
    I'm not sure I see any difference in "tone" between these two, both are generally serious in mood, mixed with some moments of humour, in line with the traditional Bond formula. The differences are more about each viewers subjective opinions on casting choices and execution, IMO both films get most things right and few things wrong.

    I agree TLD leans into a more sincere romance angle, which fitted with the current sociopolitics of the period, being the post AIDS, supposedly more monogamous Bond, while also fitting in with Dalton's desire to more accurately reflect Fleming's Book Bond, who was always more circumspect romantically than Movie Bond.

    However Dalton also has an alpha male Movie Bond moment at the beginning of the film

    The Yacht Scene: What Happens?

    After parachuting off a cliff during a training exercise in Gibraltar, Bond lands smoothly on Linda’s luxury yacht. Linda is lounging in a bikini, clearly bored and craving excitement. Bond commandeers her phone to report in, then cheekily says, “Better make that two,” when she offers him champagne and suggests he stay longer.

    Did They Sleep Together?

    While the scene is flirtatious and suggestive, it’s implied—not shown—that Bond and Linda spend some intimate time together. The line “Better make that two” (hours) is classic Bond innuendo, hinting at a romantic encounter.


    GE Bond isn't really that different. Alpha male Bond beds Caroline by implication

    Caroline sent to the south of France by the new M to psychologically evaluate Bond and accompanies him in his Aston Martin DB5. The evaluator becomes noticeably agitated by his driving and eventually orders Bond to stop the car immediately. 007 complies and reveals a hidden bottle of chilled Bollinger and a rose. He then proceeds to seduce Caroline with ease. Later, in a meeting with M, the SIS Head notes that Bond's psychological evaluation was "excellent".

    And later he ends up with Natalya Simonova

    Traditional SOP for James Bond in both cases really
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,820
    mtm wrote: »
    Funny how the PTS of TLD & GE are almost similar...down to Bond's black combat outfit and aerial action. Plus, both films have Bond in a tuxedo at night, doing spy work...after the PTS.

    I guess it's a good way to introduce a new Bond: show the action and classic dinner suit versions of him straight away.

    Yes. It's a great way.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited August 7 Posts: 3,284
    thedove wrote: »
    I am the same vintage of you @PrinceKamalKhan :)

    May our numbers increase @thedove :)
    thedove wrote: »
    Okay lets dive another way.

    Would you rather the next Bond strike the tone of GE OR strike the tone of TLD?

    I was thinking that the producers had the unenviable task of introducing a new fella in the role in less than 10 years. They chose different ways to do this and I wondered which tone would you like to see replicated or at least tonally achieved in the next Bond adventure?

    TLD, not a personal mission per se, though some elements of revenge are part of the story. We have a new Moneypenny while all other Mi6 stay the same. We have a duo of villains causing trouble for Bond. We have a hummer of a PTS. We have a traditional Bond soundtrack with an elevated sense of romance. Bond only has one love interest.

    GE, we have a very personal mission with Bond tied to the villain. We have a new M and Moneypenny introduced. We have a duo of villains though only one that is there at the end. We have a hummer of a PTS with an elaborate stunt. Our soundtrack is very much experimental and like nothing heard in a Bond film. We don't have too much in romance here but Bond does bed a couple of ladies in this one.

    Which one would you like to see them try to bring elements. I am not suggesting a remake or even direct homages and such. Just wondering which tone would you like for the next adventure.

    Definitely TLD. I've never been as big a fan of GE as many 007 aficionados are although I will concede it has the stronger primary villain of these two Bond actor debut films. I consider TLD the FRWL/CR'06 of the 1980s and it's my favorite post-TB Bond film so I'd always welcome another film similar to it in tone.

  • Posts: 2,301
    TLD.

    I'm not a big fan of GE, and if you're going to copy something of that style, copy GF. GE was already a pastiche in its day.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 7 Posts: 4,647
    Goldeneye is my favorite Bond movie and liked NTTD honour the movie a bit. There is one element from Goldeneye that i made very clear i whant to see reboot, but i say TLD.

    Because of refreshing and vibe, QOS always feels a bit TLD too. TLD is more difficult gritty ones like Octopussy. Also Steven Knight wrote Dirty Pretty Things with one plot element that TLD have a little bit too and it stars Chiwetel Ejiofor who be considered for a part in Spectre. Steven Knight in meantime make movies and tv series that not exist when i consider him, but some of those falls in gerne experience that Daniel Craig have too.

    Strange is that both Denise and Steven be liked by same fans that earlier not happy with QOS or Spectre. Whyle i see some footage or interviews that earlier give me feeling we get more of that/ confirmed in my expections for a litle. Example is that Steven Knight made movie and tv series in the gerne that TLD have also. On this moment i have feeling Steven Knight is mix of Paul Haggis, Peter Berg and Danny Boyle. With some suggestions/comments i made i am very much out of my comfort zone. With the choose of Denis Villeneuve and Steven Knight get feeling on this moment that this will contuned.

    Some of the humor and other elements in Goldeneye we have because of TLD.
  • Posts: 8,468
    TLD without a doubt!
    Never got the love for GE, glad to see a few others of similar mind!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,020
    Why not go there, I know what I am likely to hear from the masses but lets see!

    Up to CR when a new actor took the role they did so bringing in the legacy of the character.

    Even back when the series started the script built in the assumption that Bond had been a double-o for sometime. Every subsequent actor who took on the role did the same, at no point did we get a "Bond Begins" adventure. Bond was never a rookie.

    That all changed in 2006 when Daniel Craig assumed the role. The audience saw him earn his double-o status. We saw him become Bond with earning the Aston Martin, seeing him perfect his martini recipe, etc. This was all new and groundbreaking. As Craig's films continued we learned more about Bond's childhood and backstory.

    Amazon is now re-starting the series, early indications are they are looking for younger actors which seems to indicate that we will once again see Bond become Bond. Or maybe a very new double-o.

    Would you rather the next Bond to have an origin story OR Bond is an established agent?

    Do we want to see him perfect his martini recipe, earn an Aston, not say Bond, James Bond till the end of the film. OR would we prefer that Bond is set and ready to go. That the characteristics are pretty much set and he's involved in a mission with backstory details slowly developed as plotlines allow.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,650
    Bond is an established agent. Bond is Bond.

  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 171
    Bond is Bond. Besides, we'll get a "Bond begins" story when the game comes out.
  • Posts: 15,978
    Both, sort of. Bond is an established 00, but a fairly recent ones. Bond year two, so to speak.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,761
    Honestly, I lean towards origin. Or some version of origin; there is no 'bitten by a radioactive spider' established origin for Bond, so I think it's fine to get a new version in some way or form. It's a story, I'm happy to see the characters come together and meet and progress over time. Lots of fans say they don't want an origin, and yet there's been such a positive reception to the First Light trailer. And before that, Forever And A Day went down well too. If it's a new Bond, let's have a beginning for him I say.
  • Posts: 6,996
    I don't care, as long as it is brilliantly written.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,309
    Established, preferably. A year two would be good. Although I do kinda like the idea of a pre-00 film - if only to see the posters and artwork omitting the '007' number as a one-off - and simply reading, 'Secret Agent James Bond'.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,906
    Origin, but I don't want to see Vesper again.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,760
    Established for sure
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