James Bond books edited to remove racist references

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  • Posts: 6,248
    Revelator wrote: »
    There are annotated editions of authors like Hemingway, Faulkner, and Fitzgerald, and those authors are generally considered classics rather than museum pieces. I also think that someone reading Fleming for the first time will very quickly sense that the books are over 60 years old and contain references to people, concepts, and objects unfamiliar to many modern readers. So I agree that IFP is fighting a losing battle, and should emphasize the "classic" angle rather than the "relevant" one (especially since there's still plenty left in the books to complain about). After all, editions like the Annotated Sherlock Holmes have done very well. Broadview Press has already issued a fine annotated edition of Casino Royale, and I look forward to more after the books enter public domain. Griswold's book of Annotations and Chronologies has already done a lot of the work for future editors of Fleming, but I look forward to seeing what they'll do.

    100% agreed. Annotated is probably a better description than what I put, but that's the idea. There are 'classic' books I fell in love with through reading the annotated versions of them, and I'm sure future readers wanting to dive into Fleming would get something out of it too. I actually didn't know CR already had an annotated version!
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 930
    Just leave the novels as Fleming wrote them. I don't need extra bells and whistles tacked on to it to please Mary Sue.
  • edited October 30 Posts: 2,997
    007HallY wrote: »
    100% agreed. Annotated is probably a better description than what I put, but that's the idea. There are 'classic' books I fell in love with through reading the annotated versions of them, and I'm sure future readers wanting to dive into Fleming would get something out of it too. I actually didn't know CR already had an annotated version!

    Only available in Canada, sadly. A very kind member of this board sent me a copy and I will (someday, inshallah!) post a review here. In the meantime, I recommend Griswold's book to anyone who doesn't have it. I don't find the chronologies useful, but the annotations are very valuable. The website Fleming's Bond also has some useful annotations with images. Fleming wrote about a now-vanished world, and even many of his consumer good references could use annotation, let alone his geopolitical ones (POUM anyone?).

  • edited October 30 Posts: 6,248
    I think it plays into a bigger issue of how we treat these books. They're so culturally significant (as much, if not more so than Hemingway and Faulkner I'd argue). There's so much imagination, wonderful writing, and even pieces of history in them that anyone can see in them today. They deserve to be read and remembered, especially by Bond fans who love the films, video games, and even the works such as Young Bond IFP have brought out. It's simply the case they'll never be viewed as what they were when they were released. They're from a different time, and it not only becomes apparent but ever so slightly alienating when a reader quickly realises this, and I as a reader of these books from age 15 can attest to that (not in a bad way - they're just from a different era and require some context). The most we can do is to try to contextualise it for those readers interested, not change it in minor ways to make it 'palatable' for some non-existent audience. Anyway, what's the harm in releasing an annotated series? Any reader can decide to read from an older edition if they dislike it, and for those interested it's something of a gift.

    That's what we do when we see books or authors as significant based on their work. We preserve their work and comment on it. I don't see why it should be different for Fleming.
    Revelator wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    100% agreed. Annotated is probably a better description than what I put, but that's the idea. There are 'classic' books I fell in love with through reading the annotated versions of them, and I'm sure future readers wanting to dive into Fleming would get something out of it too. I actually didn't know CR already had an annotated version!

    Only available in Canada, sadly. A very kind member of this board sent me a copy and I will (someday, inshallah!) post a review here. In the meantime, I recommend Griswold's book to anyone who doesn't have it. I don't find the chronologies useful, but the annotations are very valuable. The website Fleming's Bond also has some useful annotations with images. Fleming wrote about a now-vanished world, and even many of his consumer good references could use annotation, let alone his geopolitical ones (POUM anyone?).

    Nice! I'll definitely be interested in reading what you think of it (God willing/whenever that'll be of course ;) ) Thank you! It's an older website but I like what's in there.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 30 Posts: 19,499
    I kind of feel like annotated versions are a bit of an easy win in a way: it's a way of bringing out another edition of the books they already have and legitimately charging a bit more for them.
    Although perhaps new novels might be easier: you just have to contract one writer and bigger sales are maybe more likely- new Bond books appeal to more people than slightly more insular, fan-pleasing academic works (I still remember how massive Devil May Care was, and even that new Q book has been featured in the papers).

    I also think a new short story collection feels like something which makes sense for Bond, getting some name authors in to do a short 007 story, like the Agatha Christie people have done with Marple etc., but maybe it won't appeal, I don't know.
  • Posts: 6,248
    mtm wrote: »
    I kind of feel like annotated versions are a bit of an easy win in a way: it's a way of bringing out another edition of the books they already have and legitimately charging a bit more for them.
    Although perhaps new novels might be easier: you just have to contract one writer and bigger sales are maybe more likely- new Bond books appeal to more people than slightly more insular, fan-pleasing academic works (I still remember how massive Devil May Care was, and even that new Q book has been featured in the papers).

    I also think a new short story collection feels like something which makes sense for Bond, getting some name authors in to do a short 007 story, like the Agatha Christie people have done with Marple etc., but maybe it won't appeal, I don't know.

    Surely they can do all this though? Give us a full annotated Fleming release and give us those new books/short stories. Incidentally I'd read a new short story collection about Bond!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,499
    Yeah, I guess it depends what their budget is. Like any business they want maximum return for minimum investment, I don't know how rude their health is.
    I mean I guess the most bankable thing is just to do a new Bond novel; unless there's been some sort of block coming in from the rights holders of JB, you'd imagine there's plans for another at soonest opportunity.
  • edited October 30 Posts: 6,248
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I guess it depends what their budget is. Like any business they want maximum return for minimum investment, I don't know how rude their health is.
    I mean I guess the most bankable thing is just to do a new Bond novel; unless there's been some sort of block coming in from the rights holders of JB, you'd imagine there's plans for another at soonest opportunity.

    Yes, I can imagine there are those problems. I do think it's a conscious decision not to do annotated Fleming releases though. And it's a shame. In the right hands I think that's the best way to go and could bring some good stuff. Maybe the audience isn't as apparent, but I can also understand a business (especially a literary one) not quite seeing where their audiences are nowadays.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited October 30 Posts: 930
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I kind of feel like annotated versions are a bit of an easy win in a way: it's a way of bringing out another edition of the books they already have and legitimately charging a bit more for them.
    Although perhaps new novels might be easier: you just have to contract one writer and bigger sales are maybe more likely- new Bond books appeal to more people than slightly more insular, fan-pleasing academic works (I still remember how massive Devil May Care was, and even that new Q book has been featured in the papers).

    I also think a new short story collection feels like something which makes sense for Bond, getting some name authors in to do a short 007 story, like the Agatha Christie people have done with Marple etc., but maybe it won't appeal, I don't know.

    Surely they can do all this though? Give us a full annotated Fleming release and give us those new books/short stories. Incidentally I'd read a new short story collection about Bond!

    What's an example of something you want to annotated in any of the Bond books? I fear this is just another angle for the thought police to say Fleming is bad for observing things which are obviously true.
  • edited 3:18am Posts: 6,248
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I kind of feel like annotated versions are a bit of an easy win in a way: it's a way of bringing out another edition of the books they already have and legitimately charging a bit more for them.
    Although perhaps new novels might be easier: you just have to contract one writer and bigger sales are maybe more likely- new Bond books appeal to more people than slightly more insular, fan-pleasing academic works (I still remember how massive Devil May Care was, and even that new Q book has been featured in the papers).

    I also think a new short story collection feels like something which makes sense for Bond, getting some name authors in to do a short 007 story, like the Agatha Christie people have done with Marple etc., but maybe it won't appeal, I don't know.

    Surely they can do all this though? Give us a full annotated Fleming release and give us those new books/short stories. Incidentally I'd read a new short story collection about Bond!

    What's an example of something you want to annotated in any of the Bond books? I fear this is just another angle for the thought police to say Fleming is bad for observing things which are obviously true.

    Have you ever actually read a classic book that’s been annotated? Or is this just another attempt at a ‘shock’ post you tend to do? 😉

    If anyone wants a specific example of what it would look like in regards to some of these topics, here’s a hypothetical. From LALD:
    This was Quarrel, the Cayman Islander, and Bond liked him immediately. There was the blood of Cromwellian soldiers and buccaneers in him

    There’d be a footnote, and if you wanted you could go to the back of the book and read something like: “The Western Design was an English expedition against the Spanish West Indies during the 1654 to 1660 Anglo-Spanish War, led by Oliver Cromwell. It resulted in the English capture of Jamaica in 1655.” Which would give some context to what Fleming is on about and I don’t think is immediately apparent. That’s what annotations tend to look like in these instances.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited 3:23am Posts: 930
    As long as its kept to that, it would be fine. Considering the books have already been edited, my hesitance is they will want to explain away in apologetic terms, anything Fleming wrote that might be too colorful.

    For instance, there's a line in Doctor No about the Chinamen in Jamaica wanting to keep their strain pure.

    I don't need an annotation about how Fleming is a simple 1950s Englishman with outdated thoughts about how the Chinese are.
  • edited 4:16am Posts: 6,248
    That would be unusual for an annotation in these instances. There might be the odd footnote briefly talking about the history of Chinese migration into Jamaica (again, just for context/if needed).

    A forward/essay at the beginning would most likely acknowledge Fleming’s depiction of them and comment on it, but in tandem with an overview of the novel (ie. How it marked a shift in Fleming’s writing into more fantastical adventures, the story, characters etc.)
  • edited 10:46am Posts: 2,502
    "This book may offend some readers" is warning enough; there is no need to get involved in a culture war.
  • edited 11:32am Posts: 6,248
    I’m generally not in favour of those kinds of warnings on books, at least in most circumstances. With Bond I think the message would inadvertently be, ‘sorry, this book isn’t for you’ to some readers who might otherwise get something out of them. At worst it’d imply ‘this is a racist book’ or whatever rather than acknowledging and contextualising why these critiques exist.
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