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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • VolanteVolante
    Posts: 774
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 091</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Renard's bullet-in-the-head issue was too reality defying for the Bond series.</b></font>

    Watching it for the first time I found it extremely unlikely, but somehow plausible; though honestly I didn't think it was a very good character trait when compared to other Bond villains. Now I just ignore it.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    It's a great idea - if it were used in the film! A man who can feel no pain! Oh my God, this should be the best Bond vs villain fight ever, Bond should get it handed to him on a plate.

    As it wasn't used one bit, this "bullet-in-the-head issue" was too stupid than anything else.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    Its plausable something can be stuck in the brain which is unretreivable due to say life threatening issues? If they are unhindered? Whether they would feel no pain ect.? So will disagree.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,714
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Its plausable something can be stuck in the brain which is unretreivable due to say life threatening issues? If they are unhindered? Whether they would feel no pain ect.? So will disagree.

    I find this too big a conceit honestly. Possible? Perhaps. Plausible? Not so much... ;-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Disagree big time. Whenever we are arguing plausibility in regards to Bond films, especially films after 1964 and excluding TLD and LTK, there is really no chance to prove plausibility without playing the fool. Renard's bullet filled noggin was right at home with Bond, who has previously seen many things farther out of this world, literally.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Hmm. Not necessarily. Didn't the original Dr No have his heart on the other side of his body?

    I suppose the problem with TWINE was that they didn't exploit the gimic enough.

    Disagree.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    The James Bond franchise is awash with moments of 'reality defying' moments, too many to mention

    I found it plausible enough, Carlyle had a bullet lodged in his head and killing off his senses etc, perfectly feasible, disagree with thesis

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    No, I disagree. Given the medical examination provided by Dr. Molly Warmflesh (or something like that), it seems very logical and well thought out. I could believe that, I mean after all, there have been lots of medical abnormalties and miracles which don't seem to be possible.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Why do Bond ladies and women have to have such cringeworthy names in the franchise sometimes? Dr Molly Warmflash indeed..

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,918
    It was a stupid idea, that never became anything. If this had been explored more than it was, then TWINE would've still been bad, but Renard might have been a bit more memorable. The idea of being shot in the head and surviving is possible, although improbable. The way Molly Wharmflash describes him as being able to push himself harder and longer, and becoming stronger everyday untill he dies, is thrown away as soon as she's finished talking.
    The fight with Bond as the end, could've been a whole different scenario. Instead it has an over abundance of 'pain face' a shot of Denise Richards in a wet t shirt, and some terrible lines; "Welcome to my nuclear family."
    Going back to Molly Wharmflash's account of Renard, she says it's killing of his senses, touch, smell, he feels no pain. So with that in mind, would he not be reduced to a wheelchair bound invalid? Afterall, he would loose the sensation of feel, he certainly couldn't hold a gun or plutonium rod methinks.
  • VolanteVolante
    Posts: 774
    Benny wrote:
    It was a stupid idea, that never became anything. If this had been explored more than it was, then TWINE would've still been bad, but Renard might have been a bit more memorable. The idea of being shot in the head and surviving is possible, although improbable. The way Molly Wharmflash describes him as being able to push himself harder and longer, and becoming stronger everyday untill he dies, is thrown away as soon as she's finished talking.
    The fight with Bond as the end, could've been a whole different scenario. Instead it has an over abundance of 'pain face' a shot of Denise Richards in a wet t shirt, and some terrible lines; "Welcome to my nuclear family."
    Going back to Molly Wharmflash's account of Renard, she says it's killing of his senses, touch, smell, he feels no pain. So with that in mind, would he not be reduced to a wheelchair bound invalid? Afterall, he would loose the sensation of feel, he certainly couldn't hold a gun or plutonium rod methinks.

    Denise Richards in a wet t shirt? Suddenly I'm not complaining anymore.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd have preferred Polly in a wet t-shirt personally :p
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,714
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 092</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Kamen's score for LTK makes more use of the Bond Theme than Barry's last couple of scores.</b></font>
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Benny wrote:
    It was a stupid idea, that never became anything. If this had been explored more than it was, then TWINE would've still been bad, but Renard might have been a bit more memorable. The idea of being shot in the head and surviving is possible, although improbable. The way Molly Wharmflash describes him as being able to push himself harder and longer, and becoming stronger everyday untill he dies, is thrown away as soon as she's finished talking.

    I think it was an intriguing idea that stretches probablity no more than many other things in the Bond universe. It certainly falls within Flemings maxim of 'going wildly beyond the probable but not the possible.

    But I agree with you - its just pathetically ignored with the only references being the holding of the hot rocks, getting shot in the arm and getting the pieces of broken table stuck in his hand. In the final ruck with Bond absolutely nothing which is criminal screenwriting.
    Benny wrote:
    Going back to Molly Wharmflash's account of Renard, she says it's killing of his senses, touch, smell, he feels no pain. So with that in mind, would he not be reduced to a wheelchair bound invalid? Afterall, he would loose the sensation of feel, he certainly couldn't hold a gun or plutonium rod methinks.

    Why would losing the sensation of touch make you an invalid? Its an electrical pulse along your nerves which has nothing to with your ability muscular ability to stand or grip. Admittedly you wouldnt know when you were holding something unless you could see your hand was in contact with it but theres no inherent obstacle to being able to fight and hold a plutonium rod.


  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,630
    Agreed, the only time I remember Barry making use of the Bond theme is in the gunbarrel. I'm pretty sure Kamen used the them in the GB, the Pre-Titles, and the tanker chase.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    The LTK gunbarrell music gives me shivers more than any other. Terrific Bond theme he conducted.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 092</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Kamen's score for LTK makes more use of the Bond Theme than Barry's last couple of scores.</b></font>

    Or another way of phrasing it 'Kamen flogged the Bond theme to death in LTK whereas Barry used it with restraint and his scores were all the better for it.'

    It is an indisuptable fact that Kamen uses it more than AVTAK and TLD (probably combined) Whether that is a good thing is not part of the thesis so I guess - Thesis correct.

    Next.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,062
    Agreed.

    I think TLD has a better balance of Bond theme and other themes than LTK does.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    LTK has a much worse soundtrack than TLD imho, Kamen does give us occasional a great performance but looking at the whole I feel it lacking and it feels more like a fragmentary soundtrack then the whole deal Barry always did deliver.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    The title song was awesome albeit taking the hook line from GoldFinger! But what a song! But Barry still rules for me! Disagree.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RogueAgent wrote:
    The title song was awesome albeit taking the hook line from GoldFinger! But what a song!

    And Kamen didnt write a bar of it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,714
    <font color=blue size=7><b>.</b></font>
    RogueAgent wrote:
    The title song was awesome albeit taking the hook line from GoldFinger! But what a song! But Barry still rules for me! Disagree.

    To be fair, the thesis is about the abundance of the Bond theme in Kamen's score, not about the quality of the score compared to Barry's music. ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,714
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 093</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had Sam Neil stepped in as Bond, AVTAK would have needed script adjustments.</b></font>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,696
    God forbid Neil being Bond !! He was as charismatic as a tree in his screentest !!
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 093</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had Sam Neil stepped in as Bond, AVTAK would have needed script adjustments.</b></font>

    AVTAK needed major script adjustments regardless of the actor playing Bond.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Yeah like everyone said so far, that script would have needed changes anyway.
    I could have sworn he was up for it for TLD though, not AVTAK.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    Having like most on here i would assume? Seen Neil's screen test? I just could not see him as Bond. So disagree to a point, if the lead role had changed actors? Then depending on who they had cast? Maybe?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,924
    PKK summed up my thoughts.

    Whoever was cast in AVTAK (I think it was TLD that Neill auditioned for), the film would have needed reworking. Though I can never quite make my mind up on Neill, then again, i've never seen Reilly Ace Of Spies (the tv series that no doubt put him on EONs radar).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,062
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 093</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had Sam Neil stepped in as Bond, AVTAK would have needed script adjustments.</b></font>

    AVTAK needed major script adjustments regardless of the actor playing Bond.

    LOL. Too true. I wonder if they should have gone forward with the Halley's Comet idea after all...
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Halleys Comet in 1981 ?, how does that work out ?, The Living Daylights would of been most appropriate for such a thing (1986/87)

    Disagree with thesis, whichever way you look at it, Moore did a fine job at the time, it was a very good release, unlike the two subsequent disasters he appeared in

    Suppose if Neill, or anyone else had got the part, I don't necessarily think any real adjustments were really needed. I would of wanted Collins for the part in the early 1980s, he was ideal I think sometimes, not someone like Neill. All said, Moore stayed on, did the film, it was a success, he should of parted company with the series then and not stayed on and embarrassed himself, but that's how I feel about it
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