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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 23,564
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 039</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Golden Gate bridge fight in AVTAK has very convincing special effects.</b></font>
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Not sure I understand the thesis Darth. Is the debate that the scene DOES or DOES NOT have convincing special effects?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,564
    Changed it. :-)
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Think he's saying they're good. I seem to remember them being not bad. But it's an underwhelming scene. Much prefer when Zorin shoots his own guys in the mine. Classic.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    Compared to the rest of the film...yes. But it's still underwhelming
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    Think he's saying they're good. I seem to remember them being not bad. But it's an underwhelming scene. Much prefer when Zorin shoots his own guys in the mine. Classic.

    Funnily enough a scene Sir Rog apparently hates
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Think he's saying they're good. I seem to remember them being not bad. But it's an underwhelming scene. Much prefer when Zorin shoots his own guys in the mine. Classic.

    Funnily enough a scene Sir Rog apparently hates

    Really? Is that because of all his UNICEF 'I hate guns' stuff? He's gone a bit soft in his old age.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    They weren't allowed to film the end bit on the Golden Gate bridge for fear of copycat (no pun intentional) suicides and what they gave as an alternative wasn't too bad, although It's hard to ignore the 'Blair Witch' type camera work at some stages, anyone would think it was done during another earthquake the background was shaking about so much. All told it's one of the most lamest and cringeworthy endings for James Bond in the entire series, special effects or not

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Think he's saying they're good. I seem to remember them being not bad. But it's an underwhelming scene. Much prefer when Zorin shoots his own guys in the mine. Classic.

    Funnily enough a scene Sir Rog apparently hates

    Really? Is that because of all his UNICEF 'I hate guns' stuff? He's gone a bit soft in his old age.

    I think he's gone on record as saying that, out of the 7 films he did, AVTAK was the one he liked the least.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Zorin has some decent scenes and I love the bit in the mine.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Yeah it is a good scene. As for the GG fight, an exciting sequence IMO although realistically he'd probably pummel Roger Moore.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    and that was because -

    Moore had a healthy disregard for Grace Jones and were not on speaking terms
    Moore didn't feel comfortable finding out Tanya Roberts mother was younger than him
    Moore hated the violence in the film (I must have been watching something else)
    Moore said 'machine gunning persons down in cold blood, is 'Not James Bond, it's not for me'
    Moore did not consider it to be a James Bond movie

    All told you could say that Roger didn't really like his last appearance as 007
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Hmm. Wonder what he would have made of LTK!
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Not helped by the rubbish rear projection that dosn't geographically match up with the set!
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    @Virage It was as if they were showing some old film of the big one that hit San Francisco in 1906 when Moore and Roberts were on that platform :-<

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,986
    Virage wrote:
    Not helped by the rubbish rear projection that dosn't geographically match up with the set!

    Bingo.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    For the time of release? I thought the rear projection of the traffic below was pretty good! Obviously with the progression of technology it now looks a little dated. But its a sequence i enjoy.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    I hadn't even realized it wasn't filmed at the actual location. It looks pretty real to me, so yes the special effects are convincing.

    But the scene itself is a bit of a disappointing ending to an otherwise very good and underrated (IMO) Bond film.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Yes, I'd say it does, just as much of the rest of A View To A Kill did.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,564
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 040</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>QOS was a step backwards after CR.</b></font>
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I wouldn't go that far, so I disagree. It was not the great follow up we were all hoping for (in so many ways), but I did like the final two scenes a lot. The film did show what Bond was feeling after losing Vesper and trying to move on (not sleeping, etc.) ... so it is time now, with Skyfall, for that bit (angst) to be put to rest. I know quite a few guys think the "feelings" bit was overdone, but it was I think it was good to have it out and shown a bit; Vesper's betrayal and death did change him - just allowing himself to fall in love with her and try to stay with her changed him. And that was the beginning for Bond as I remember from the books. That fits. I think it did connect with the "beginnings" or the making of Bond, so I am okay with that overall.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 13,350
    In terms of style, it was a step in the right direction. For everything else, it sure did go backwards!

    Though I think you'll find everyone will agree with this thesis DD, 100%.
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited February 2012 Posts: 401
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Though I think you'll find everyone will agree with this thesis DD, 100%.
    Don't generalize. I like QoS more than CR, but that's not saying much. I disagree with the thesis.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,986
    Yes. It has its good scenes. But the story is a muddle: the filmmakers couldn't decide if they were going to tell a post-Vesper story or a Quantum story, and the end result is half-hearted.
  • KennonKennon
    edited February 2012 Posts: 297
    If anything QOS didn't go in the right direction consequently enough. Some things were great and some very average. Hated the dogfight, hotel climax was also a bit pedestrian, like the average action flick really. So yes, QOS did go a step backwards.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    It was always going to be difficult following CR! I wouldn't go so far as saying it was a step backwards? It was not as successful as CR, it just seemed rushed to go from one set piece to the next with not a great deal of drama between the action sequences!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I know its not going to be a suprise but I'm going to say yes. There were some good scenes but in terms of action, narrative and characters it felt inferior.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    No. Both are great, and have a great emotional tone in them with Bond dealing with Vesper's betrayal that he soon sees at the end as a saving grace. I like QoS, and I think it did its job of being an entertaining ride, and Dan shows his acting chops really well. The plot is somewhat interesting and the subplots with Mathis and Bond leading to his death and the bout going on between Beam and Felix over what's right and wrong are all very well constructed pieces. Though the film was wrongly marketed as a revenge film from Bond's perspective, and really only has Camille getting true revenge, Bond gets some revenge on Yusef by confronting him over Vesper and turning him over to MI6 so that no more women can be swept up and cheated by him and Quantum. Overall, a good follow-up to a brilliant predecessor. Yes, QoS could've been better, but between the Tosca scenes(White remaining in the crowd, Bond confronting Greene and his men to music), Bond and Mathis talking about Vesper, Bond showing how affected he is by Vesper's death/betrayal, all make the film an ace in my opinion. So, I disagree with this thesis.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    It is certainly not a step forwards from CR but nor is it a step backwards towards DAD.
    I would regard it more as a faltering step which left the series standing still. But for the shoddy editing and another months polish on the script it would have been a decent follow up to CR.

    The main objective for SF is it needs to make sure that it is definitely a step forwards from QOS. It may not reach the heights of CR (which lets be fair had a whole Fleming novel to plunder as material) but if it is a step back from or on a par with QOS then serious questions need to be asked.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Though I think you'll find everyone will agree with this thesis DD, 100%.
    Don't generalize

    It's difficult not to when there are people of find it worse than Die Another Day and do nothing but slate the film any time it's brought up.

    The responses to this, have pleasantly surprised me.
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