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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 23,564
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 034</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Removing the gun barrel from the opening of CR and QOS is a major flaw in both films.</b></font>
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 034</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Removing the gun barrel from the opening of CR and QOS is a major flaw in both films.</b></font>

    I'd say no although the gunbarrel did appear in CR just before the opening credits. I didn't mind EON moving it to the end of QOS. I did mind the speedy way they did it though.

  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 034</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Removing the gun barrel from the opening of CR and QOS is a major flaw in both films.</b></font>

    ...hardly a major flaw!!
    Just a change from the norm, and it's led us to now and what will surely be the gun barrel we have been waiting for from DC & co!? :D
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    The gun barrel never should have been moved, it wasn't intended to stand for anything else but a recognisable way to open the film(s). It may be only be 15-20 seconds, but it is an important 15-20 seconds and can set the mood (/build the excitement) for the forthcoming film.


    Thesis #34: Agree
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    In the case of Royale it worked. They put a new spin on an old tradition and it was very effective. However with QoS it backfired.

    Overall status however: Agreed. The gunbarrel should be where it belongs next time. It builds excitement and anticipation.
  • MrEonMrEon
    edited February 2012 Posts: 278
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    The gun barrel never should have been moved, it wasn't intended to stand for anything else but a recognisable way to open the film(s). It may be only be 15-20 seconds, but it is an important 15-20 seconds and can set the mood (/build the excitement) for the forthcoming film.


    Thesis #34: Agree

    ...were you not in the mood when you sat in the cinema to watch CR for the first time, building yourself up with excitement!!??
    I know I was, because it was a new beginning and has brought us to now and what will be the normal pattern of...Gun barrel- PTS -and then song etc!?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    In CR it served a purpose. In QoS it was stupid but so is that movie.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    Its not a major flaw i don't think. With the way it has gone in CR and QOS? I would fully expect it to be back at the start of the movie! But not the fast walking version that was at the end of QOS!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Disagree. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about a simple gunbarrel, or how its absence is enough for them to consider a Bond film an absolute failure. I am a fan of tradition too, but there is nothing wrong with new innovation and cutting away from the quilt.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Disagree. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about a simple gunbarrel, or how its absence is enough for them to consider a Bond film an absolute failure. I am a fan of tradition too, but there is nothing wrong with new innovation and cutting away from the quilt.

    Well said Sir..... Totally agree!!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2012 Posts: 11,189
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Disagree. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about a simple gunbarrel, or how its absence is enough for them to consider a Bond film an absolute failure. I am a fan of tradition too, but there is nothing wrong with new innovation and cutting away from the quilt.

    The crappy gunbarrel in QoS sealed the fate of an already average film.

    That and I DON'T LIKE CHANGE ;)
  • SJK91SJK91
    edited February 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    Loved it both times but now it looks a bit tacky and contrived with QOS. More a gag than a really good idea. I'd only scream murder if they put it in the middle after a commercial break. Everything else doesn't bother me.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    SJK91 wrote:
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....

    I think the gunbarrel will most def be at the start of skyFall, and all will be as most people want things!!
    As for it being at the end of QOS, it was surely only there as a kind of "there we are" Bond is now up to speed and rolling on towards what will be his (DC's) first real out and out Bond film after earning his stripes!!?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MrEon wrote:
    SJK91 wrote:
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....

    I think the gunbarrel will most def be at the start of skyFall, and all will be as most people want things!!
    As for it being at the end of QOS, it was surely only there as a kind of "there we are" Bond is now up to speed and rolling on towards what will be his (DC's) first real out and out Bond film after earning his stripes!!?

    I don't believe that. I just think it was stuck on the end to satisfy audiences.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,691
    Yes it was an appalling mistake to move the gunbarrell... one of the big problems I have with CR and QOS.

    I totally agree with this thesis.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    BAIN123 wrote:
    MrEon wrote:
    SJK91 wrote:
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....

    I think the gunbarrel will most def be at the start of skyFall, and all will be as most people want things!!
    As for it being at the end of QOS, it was surely only there as a kind of "there we are" Bond is now up to speed and rolling on towards what will be his (DC's) first real out and out Bond film after earning his stripes!!?

    I don't believe that. I just think it was stuck on the end to satisfy audiences.

    ....I would think Broccoli & Wilson, not to mention Marc Forster would not just shove it on the end to satisfy the audience!!!
    Its all a bit more important than just that, part of the whole transfer of Bond into what we know and love!!?
    And as I've said already, leading us to SkyFall and I hope all things as we really want them in the right order!?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MrEon wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    MrEon wrote:
    SJK91 wrote:
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....

    I think the gunbarrel will most def be at the start of skyFall, and all will be as most people want things!!
    As for it being at the end of QOS, it was surely only there as a kind of "there we are" Bond is now up to speed and rolling on towards what will be his (DC's) first real out and out Bond film after earning his stripes!!?

    I don't believe that. I just think it was stuck on the end to satisfy audiences.

    ....I would think Broccoli & Wilson, not to mention Marc Forster would not just shove it on the end to satisfy the audience!!!
    Its all a bit more important than just that, part of the whole transfer of Bond into what we know and love!!?
    And as I've said already, leading us to SkyFall and I hope all things as we really want them in the right order!?

    Of course they would. If it meant that much to them they would make it a decent one and not just one that looked like it took 5 minutes to shoot and edit.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    BAIN123 wrote:
    MrEon wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    MrEon wrote:
    SJK91 wrote:
    Moving the gun barrel in Casino Royale was absolutely fantastic IMO. In Quantum of Solace, the gag of putting it at the end was odd. But to say it was a MAJOR flaw is a bit much. (Especially in QOS's case)

    Just put it back at the start in Skyfall, please....

    I think the gunbarrel will most def be at the start of skyFall, and all will be as most people want things!!
    As for it being at the end of QOS, it was surely only there as a kind of "there we are" Bond is now up to speed and rolling on towards what will be his (DC's) first real out and out Bond film after earning his stripes!!?

    I don't believe that. I just think it was stuck on the end to satisfy audiences.

    ....I would think Broccoli & Wilson, not to mention Marc Forster would not just shove it on the end to satisfy the audience!!!
    Its all a bit more important than just that, part of the whole transfer of Bond into what we know and love!!?
    And as I've said already, leading us to SkyFall and I hope all things as we really want them in the right order!?

    Of course they would. If it meant that much to them they would make it a decent one and not just one that looked like it took 5 minutes to shoot and edit.

    I think you have a low opinion of the professionalism of MGW-BB & Marc Forster, these things are not just made up on a wet monday morning, all involved would of been following a well thought out plan/script of what that film(QOS) was going to become!!
    Yes it has its flaws, but its still a BOND film and one which was always going to be part of the process of bringing DC's 007 to the real deal of SkyFall with all the bell's and whistles in place I hope!!? ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MGW, BB and Marc Forster are all capable people but they disappointed a lot of fans this time. Its well known that there was a start date before a script was completed and re-writes occured throughout production. They did what they could but it was rushed through.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited February 2012 Posts: 4,450
    It is a major flaw, in specialy CR, but QOS too because it be part of the end credits. Tv channel in The Netherlands who give Bond movies on tv don't show it on tv, because there don't show end credits. It also be big shame the lion and sony logo are also not show at the start with both movies.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 278
    Yes it is well known about the script, and I tend to think folks jump on that band wagon to pick the film to bits!
    The truth is all films have re-writes galore to the very end, and Bond is no different!?
    BB & MGW are the same capable people who have brought us many a Bond film and made us all part with our money to allow them to bring us that utter gem once in a while, which I really hope SkyFall is...!??
    Once again... With all its bits in the right order!!
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I partially agree. While I like the unorthodox position of the gunbarrel in CR (because of its nature of reboot), I hate the gunbarrel in QOS... there is no logical nor artistical reason for its placing at the end.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 13,350
    Not a mjor flaw, in fact I'm not that bothered by it as a 'twice only' sort of thing, it's works and sets the not Bond film, films apart from the rest.
    0013 wrote:
    there is no logical nor artistical reason for its placing at the end.

    It's to show, that Bond is now Bond and that we're ready to move onto the proper character as we knew him. The end of the 'origins' if you will.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Not a mjor flaw, in fact I'm not that bothered by it as a 'twice only' sort of thing, it's works and sets the not Bond film, films apart from the rest.
    0013 wrote:
    there is no logical nor artistical reason for its placing at the end.

    It's to show, that Bond is now Bond and that we're ready to move onto the proper character as we knew him. The end of the 'origins' if you will.
    Or at least that's what we hope.... ;)
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    We've been through it a thousand times but Gunbarrel should always be at the immediate start before a second of film has even taken place, not after teaser and not at end of film. Last proper gunbarrel was The World Is Not Enough, after that they have merely mucked about at different areas and spoilt it, OK they might have thought it would make a nice change or to try something new but all said they should simply have left it as it was, There is no place for it unless at the very start as it always was before Craig was introduced
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    For CR, I actually prefer the way it ended up.

    For QoS, I don't understand. The gunbarrell could have opened to the circle widening on the lake, and then follow the order of the film. There was no reason to not have it at the beginning.

    The only thing I can think of is Craig was self conscious about it, as he was even nervous when they filmed it, and so it was tacked on at the end.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    SJK91 wrote:
    I honestly have no opinion here. I think he was the least of Die Another Day's problems.

    All I remember is:
    "Well, well. James Baaahnd. Just in time for the fireworks."

    Exactly. Hardly remember him at all, which in the context of that movie is a good thing.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    I mean i understand WHY they did the gunbarrel at the end of QoS, but in execution, it just didn't work. It came out of nowhere. If it was seamlessly in the film like it was in CR, then it would of worked. But because it just came out of nowhere it made no sense. The whole "Bond is now Bond" thing was messed up a bit in my opinion.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited February 2012 Posts: 2,629
    I think it was OK for CR, but not for QOS. Throw in DAD and the last three gunbarrels are at the bottom of the best gunbarrel sequence list.

    Let's bring a tradition gunbarrel sequence back for SF.
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