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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    echo wrote:
    But I like the jump cuts--it is very 1969

    I think this is why maybe the editing doesn't bother me, because it is of the time. Thinking about it, the cuts in that opening beach scene do seem a little off. But I guess I'm a bit nostalgic for that time of film-making, and maybe those unpolished moments remind me of that.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,559
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 024</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Some of Daniel Kleinman's OT sequences are superior to some of Maurice Binder's.</b></font>
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    For the technology that was around at the time compared with what Kleinman had? Thats a little unfair to say the least! Binder's work was revolutionry at the time and Kleinman continued the work in what he brought to the series.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    I'd say only GoldenEye, Die Another Day and Casino Royale's are in parts. On the whole, Binder has had the much stronger record mind.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,980
    Yes, but only GE and CR. Binder by the end of his run had gotten up there in years and was repeating himself.

    Still, Binder came up with the gunbarrel!
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 024</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Some of Daniel Kleinman's OT sequences are superior to some of Maurice Binder's.</b></font>

    I do consider Kleinman's GE titles to be the best post-OHMSS.
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    I don't agree with the thesis. That's all I have to say really.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I'd say so, definitely! GoldenEye, The World is not Enough, Casino Royale, and Quantum of Solace all have great Main Titles Sequences, though QoS's was ruined by the terrible theme song. Even DAD's is pretty good, with Bond being tortured and all. I also kind of like DAD's theme song, though I despise Madonna.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Both did brilliant work. Both used real life actors/actresses, but Maurice moreso obviously. Kleinman's work adds more graphics, which is also obvious considering the new technology post 1990 that could now be utilized more effectively. I think both did brilliant work, but neither is better than the other.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Having some nice titles is all very well but when we get a terrible trash soundtrack with it, it does kind of spoil the enjoyment of it, unless we just turn off audio and watch the designs, which I don't really want ever to do unless in extreme circumstances such as QOS etc. Hands up and I was never really a fan of Binders work, the man takes plaudits and recognition for presenting us with the Gunbarrel start but I often didn't really like his Bond work. Worst culprits for me would include Moonraker and TSWLM, poor designs they were, as were Daylights and View to a Kill to name two others. Speaking from my perspective, not anyone else of course, how others feel is up to them but that's how I feel about it, Admittedly I find some of his other work such as OHMSS and Live and Let Die much more lively and interesting, maybe I'm being too hard on the man but I'll say that Kleinman's stuff, and taking into account the timeline and what was available, but even so, I don't always see that as a factor, but was a definite improvement, Goldeneye fitted in well with the times, the fall of Soviet Communism, Tomorrow Never Dies was a fun intro, helped to a certain extent by a fine Crow tune, and The World Is Not Enough was a really fine way to end the 20th century in terms of Bond designs. Die Another Day was an interesting one as we got to see Bond in certain stages during the intro following on from the teaser, but seems sometimes almost void and redundant by the horrible crap music by Madonna flooding over it unless you turn off audio. Casino Royale was chalk and cheese here as Cornell gave us a really good tune that we could listen too with ease and it had some nice Kleinman designs to go with it, it remains one example in recent times where I could sit comfortable and watch both Title designs and listen to theme intro as one and feel at ease with it
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Some are pretty good. His best was CR IMO.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    The CR OT was quite nice. I miss the hand-made quality of some of Binder's titles though. They have a crafted quality that is lost with the computer graphics. That said, Kleinman's work is one of the few things that maintains a quality comparable to the early films. I'd give him 4 out of 5.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,559
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 025</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Without the Bond films, several films outside the Bond series would never have been made.</b></font>
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    Posts: 401
    Do you mean stuff like the Derek Flint series?
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Well, yes.... isn't this just a statement of fact? More than several, I'd say. Thousands would be more accurate. The influence of the series - both direct and indirect - is immense.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,559
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    Do you mean stuff like the Derek Flint series?

    Not necessarily restricted to other spy series.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    There is not an action film made since 1962 that doesn't owe something to Bond, and countless other genres have referenced Bond - both knowingly and subconsiously.

    The influence is simply unquantifiable.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Without question 007 has been a big influence on other releases, it's annoying sometimes when I read about references to Bourne for instance, Yes it's of a similar genre but when I watch Bond I focus solely on it being a James Bond movie, which is it what they are, not necessarily being linked to anything else
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Oh yes, so very true. A world without Bond would be very interesting indeed.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    Without doubt i agree with thesis!
  • connerybondconnerybond
    Posts: 163
    I stopped watching Bond films when gadgets took over, afew of them did not matter, as was the case with Brosnan as Bond films. I liked 30s and 60s, having gone to schools and universities then, and having read Bons novels in late 50s before Dr NO was filmed. Minor changes to reflect the modern age would not do much harm, but so much gadgets galore of Brosnan films? No!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,980
    Agree. Both Connery and Brosnan were able to get pet projects made because they were concurrently starring as Bond.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd say a big, fat yes. A very good example - The Rock - was on last night on BBC.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Of course! Writers, directors, actors alike have all been influenced by Fleming/the Bond novels/the Bond movies. We not only wouldn't have some of the great spy films we do now, but we also wouldn't have some great spy novels. When you poll people to name a spy they will say James Bond most of the time. He is the quintessential man. He is debonair, dangerous, has a license to kill, and gets all the women he wants and drives fast cars. Every man wants to be him, and every woman wants him in bed. Like Carly Simon says, when Bond is concerned, "Nobody Does It Better".
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 025</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Without the Bond films, several films outside the Bond series would never have been made.</b></font>

    Agreed. Or they would've been made differently so Bond definitely had an influence, especially in paving the way for big budget series action films like "Star Wars", "Superman", "Indiana Jones", "Lethal Weapon", "Die Hard", "Batman", etc.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 025</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Without the Bond films, several films outside the Bond series would never have been made.</b></font>

    I go along with this. The influence of the Bond films is far reaching, and not just limited to the countless (inter)national films that jumped on the 1960's spy craze.

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2012 Posts: 4,446
    The Saint from 1962 and be one of the reasen's why Roger Moore not be Bond in 1962, but in 1971. Diana Rigg whas choosen for OHMSS and Patrick Macnee because there be fames because of The Avengers. The Avengers already start in 1961. Also there be Hitchcock in the 50's.

    The Man from U.N.C.L.E. from 1964 also take a look to James Bond as we can see in one of the inside documentry's of the Bond dvd's. I also never saw the Mission Impossible series.

    So i partly disagree.

    Without Bond Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan life have look much difrently. Without James Bond, Roger Moore possible have made more seasons of The Persuaders.

    Brosnan have been a more drama actor. He already playing in Mrs Doubtfire and in Dante Speak. Without Bond, mabey he have playing the part Sam Neal mabey play in Jurassic Park movies and Twister. For Daniel Craig it haven't look much difrent i think. George Lazenby whas a model. Sean Connery have been a fames old actor from the 60's and 70's as all those other for me (litle) unknown people or parts who now be plaed by people like Donald Sutherland. Dalton have made 1 or 2 none Bond movies more.


  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Agreed. Almost every action/adventure film I can think of has borrowed from the Bond series in some way.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Well Austin Powers and Johnny English for a start
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    Agreed. Almost every action/adventure film I can think of has borrowed from the Bond series in some way.

    How about some other films outside the series that Bond has borrowed 'from'

    Jaws, Star Wars, North by Northwest, Enter the Dragon, Lawrence of Arabia etc, probably more but that'll do for now
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