TWINE - the good, the average, the bad

I saw a similar post for NTTD. With TWINE, there's a multitude of different things going on in that film, and people have differences of their opinions, so I think this film is good one to dissect.

Good
  • Complex plot with twists
  • Willingness to be a unique and have its own identity
  • Swiss bank opening
  • Brosnan's performance, darker and more serious than usual, but also with some charm, and the love scenes are convincing.
  • Zukovsky
  • Q's great finale
  • Gadgets are a nice addition, while not being overdone (as they would be in the next film)

Average
  • Renard as a concept is good, but the execution neither makes him seem fearsome, nor able to be sympathized with.
  • M gets more screentime, though her portrayal is gullible and less professional.
  • Theme song. Having Garbage do it was a progressive decision, but this theme song itself was divisive.
  • Bullion

Bad
  • Last 20 mins/submarine fight feel anti-climactic
  • Opening boat chase and the ski scenes were choppily edited snoozefests
  • Chainsaw helicopters/caviar factory scenes
  • The aesthetics in this film look very plain and unappealing
  • Subpar directing
  • Denise Richards (that being said, she gets too much blame; it's not all on her)
  • Corny jokes, including the Christmas jokes and ending

Comments

  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited November 23 Posts: 179
    Renard as a concept is good, but the execution neither makes him seem fearsome, nor able to be sympathized with.

    I'm glad that they didn't go overboard with the "villain who feels no pain angle." When they first said it in the movie I groaned because I thought he was going to be some sort of unstoppable hulk-like villain, but they kept it within the realm of plausibility, focusing more on the psychological damage it's done to him. Besides, feeling no pain isn't exactly a strength, since pain is there to alert the body of the damage it's taking.

    However, I do think Carlysle was too understated in his performance. He didn't need to ham it up like Pryce or Stephens but a bit more animation in his acting would have pepped up some of the scenes a bit more.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,612
    Good: the movie.
    Bad: the fans wanting it to be more what they expected of a Bond movie (I was one of them back then. Later on I saw the brilliance of it).
  • edited November 23 Posts: 456
    I agree with slide_99 that it's better they made Renard human. Attempts to make him more fearsome, if executed poorly, may have made him too over-the-top. So I'm moreso referring to the sympathetic part.

    A villain with severe depression, knowledge that he'll die and feeling of hopelessness and futility could've been a really relatable character to many people if that were emphasized more.

    I feel like his character could've benefited from more dialogue and less hand-to-hand combat in a submarine.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,093
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Good: the movie.
    Bad: the fans wanting it to be more what they expected of a Bond movie (I was one of them back then. Later on I saw the brilliance of it).

    My thoughts exactly. TWINE is a heavily underrated gem.
  • Posts: 456
    Overall rating. 7/10. But may get knocked down to 6.9 for 1 sex joke too many.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 23 Posts: 16,612
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Overall rating. 7/10. But may get knocked down to 6.9 for 1 sex joke too many.

    One sex joke too many is an oxymoron.
    "Attempting re-entry" saw to that.
  • TWINE has its flaws, but still remains on of my favorites in the entire series.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,612
    TWINE has its flaws, but still remains on of my favorites in the entire series.

    My fist doth bumpest!
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    TWINE has its flaws, but still remains on of my favorites in the entire series.

    My fist doth bumpest!

    ***Returns fist bump***
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,132
    It was the first Bond movie I saw beginning to end. I’m basis, but I hold it near and dear to my heart, for more than one reason. Like the novel Carte Blanche, I see why fans and others have problems with it, but I have been hooked on more 007 adventures ever since.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    edited November 23 Posts: 197
    chrisisall wrote: »

    One sex joke too many is an oxymoron.
    "Attempting re-entry" saw to that.

    Here’s where I have an issue with the humour in Brosnan’s 90s ‘Britpop’ Bond movies. It is often forced and overdone, and unnecessarily calls attention to itself
    The ‘Attemping re-entry’ is genius because it’s a visual gag, and because Q says it innocently whilst looking at another monitor.

    The ‘Christmas comes once a year’ gag in comparison is unsavoury and lessened by the fact that it’s said knowingly.

    All that said, this is definitely Brosnan’s most interesting film. It’s got a lot of fascinating ideas but is let down in the execution.

    The most glaring misstep being Christmas Jones.

    I don’t blame Denise Richards at all. The fact is though that her character’s mere existence in the film only serves to undermine the Bond/Elektra arc.
    Jones turns up and the film is telling the viewer that Elektra isn’t going to be the main Bond girl, and then you join the dots….

    The film is a bit shabby looking. Partly that is down to the Causcuses oil fields location. It’s an interesting location for sure, but doesn’t really seem to fit the Bond aesthetic. Zukovsky’s casino must be the least glamorous one in the franchise?

    And i agree the direction is a bit flat, especially in the action scenes.

    Still, a vast improvement on TND for me
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 197
    I’ve seem comments around this site saying that TWINE was in someways an OHMSS remake before NTTD.

    It’s something I hadn’t considered before. Can anyone give some context to that?

    Off the top of my head, the only things I can think of are that Bond has a relationship with a troubled and damaged rich girl with daddy issues who ends up getting shot in the head, and there is a ski sequence with an avalanche.

    I’m probably being dense here, but I can’t think of any other connections apart from the title of the movie
  • edited November 23 Posts: 566
    It’s something I hadn’t considered before. Can anyone give some context to that?
    I suppose this impression is an extrapolation of Purvis and Waid's initial idea that was "with Elektra, Bond thinks he has found Tracy, but he's really found Blofeld." The title of the movie creating in itself a link with OHMSS.

    As you said, the proximity between Tracy and Elektra can be found in their common dangerous behavior used to hide vulnerability (or at least in Elektra's public behavior when she goes to the casino and skies with Bond, seemingly flirting with danger). Another proximity could be the fact that both characters are heiresses with respective fathers playing a role in the plot. Elektra's public identity seems to be written as a way to reflect Tracy, both to Bond and to the audience.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 197
    I suppose this impression is an extrapolation of Purvis and Waid's initial idea that was "with Elektra, Bond thinks he has found Tracy, but he's really found Blofeld." The title of the movie creating in itself a link with OHMSS.

    As you said, the proximity between Tracy and Elektra can be found in their common dangerous behavior used to hide vulnerability (or at least in Elektra's public behavior when she goes to the casino and skies with Bond, seemingly flirting with danger). Another proximity could be the fact that both characters are heiresses with respective fathers playing a role in the plot. Elektra's public identity seems to be written as a way to reflect Tracy, both to Bond and to the audience.

    Thank you Herr_Stockmann.
    I had not heard that P&W idea expressed before regarding Tracy / Blofeld.

    I suppose the Brosnan films (unlike Craig’s) are still considered to be a continuation of the previous continuity, and so Bond of TWINE has loved and lost Tracy.

    I did immediately after my previous post think of the respective scenes of Tracy / Elektra in the casino, and their seemingly reckless and self destructive behaviours. The similarities are actually quite glaring.

    It’s a shame that the film didn’t have the guts to focus on its ideas and ultimately felt the need to dilute things with the introduction of a completely separate Bond girl in Christmas Jones. This, in my opinion, is a disastrous decision that undermines the drama and left the Bond / Elektra arc neutered.

    I wonder, was Jones originally written in by P&W, or did the studios/producers insist on putting in another Bond girl - one that that Bond doesn’t execute - to adhere to ‘formula’?
  • edited November 23 Posts: 566
    I wonder, was Jones originally written in by P&W, or did the studios/producers insist on putting in another Bond girl - one that that Bond doesn’t execute - to adhere to ‘formula’?
    Jones was seemingly here since, maybe not the beginning, but at least since early drafts (according to MI6-HQ, the June 18th, 1998 is the earliest screenplay draft; interestingly, the Thames chase sees Bond using Thunderball's jetpack rather than a speedboat https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/the-world-is-not-enough-precredits-sequence-boat-chase-myth?id=4733). She was originally written in as a French Polynesian.
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  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 197
    I’m glad we got the boat. It’s a highlight of the movie

    Maybe a Logan or Harris would have helped focus the ideas and cut out Christmas Jones.

    Or maybe it would have worked better if she’d been introduced earlier in the movie, maybe before Bond and Elektra get involved. As it is, she turns up at an inopportune moment just to alert the viewer that there is now another Bond girl around and so Elektra might be something else….
  • edited November 23 Posts: 456
    Here’s where I have an issue with the humour in Brosnan’s 90s ‘Britpop’ Bond movies. It is often forced and overdone, and unnecessarily calls attention to itself ... The ‘Christmas comes once a year’ gag in comparison is unsavoury and lessened by the fact that it’s said knowingly.


    This. There's no irony in the joke if you name the character something ridiculous like Christmas. You can name a character anything you want to force a joke.

    TWINE had a unique serious drama/thriller thing going on. But ultimately it decided to add in corny Bond tropes just for the sake of checking boxes.

  • Posts: 456
    Maybe a Logan or Harris would have helped focus the ideas and cut out Christmas Jones.

    It would've been a better script, but there's the "Bond always gets the girl in the end" trope. Craig's films proved that non-formulaic endings could work, but the mindset in the 90's, Bond is supposed to the coolest man in the world.

    So in that climate, it would've been better to just hire a more convincing actor for the role and name her something more believable.
  • Posts: 566
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    So in that climate, it would've been better to just hire a more convincing actor for the role and name her something more believable.
    And, as @DraxCucumberSandwich points it, to introduce the character earlier in the plot. It's quite relevant to say that, because of the timing, she appears as a way to warn the audience about Elektra. Though it's quite difficult to imagine how Christmas could enter the story before.
  • edited November 23 Posts: 456
    Me personally, I never saw Christmas's introduction as a sign that Elektra would be the villain. Maybe I wasn't as saavy as some of you were, but many Bond films have 2 "Bond girls" (i.e. the 1 that dies, and the 1 that becomes the love interest).

    And with the whole thing about using Elektra as a pawn to get to Renard; it very well could've been Elektra King as the "dead mistress trope" instead of the villain.
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