WITH A MIND TO KILL by Anthony Horowitz (May 2022)

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    His Tomorrow Never Dies adaptation is probably one of the better things he wrote for Bond.

    The bit I always remember is how he gives a kind of synopsis of the bike chase rather than actually writing it. “The cycle soared out and onto a boat tied at the dock. From there they jumped to the next boat, and then the next”
    It doesn’t exactly make me feel like I’m there! :)
  • Posts: 2,599
    The bit I always remember is how he gives a kind of synopsis of the bike chase rather than actually writing it. “The cycle soared out and onto a boat tied at the dock. From there they jumped to the next boat, and then the next”
    It doesn’t exactly make me feel like I’m there! :)[/quote]

    Personally, I don’t think Benson is any kind of writer unless he’s improved since scribing the Bond yarns. They are colourful but ultimately read like “fan fiction” to me and I’m not the sort of person who just assigns anything that isn’t attributed to Fleming into such a category.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    @Bounine I agree about Benson, he's not as talented as others who have written continuing Bond novels.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,297
    @Bounine I agree about Benson, he's not as talented as others who have written continuing Bond novels.

    Just like George Lazenby not being an actor Benson wasn't really a fiction writer. Zero Minus Ten (1997) was his first work of fiction. Benson had however written the non-fiction book The James Bond Bedside Companion (1984/1988) which helped him get the Bond continuation gig and like anything he got better the more novels he wrote.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 2,599
    I always felt like IFP made a mistake hiring Benson just because of the bedside companion. As I said, I haven’t read anything of Benson’s outside of his Bond yarns but I don’t doubt that fact that he is a better, if not a much better writer now. Personally, and not that I’m aware of the business end of the literary world but in theory, hiring Benson along with an experienced, successful writer where they could have worked together to smooth it all out, seems like potential...if possible...and all considerations taken into account...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    Bounine wrote: »
    I always felt like IFP made a mistake hiring Benson just because of the bedside companion. As I said, I haven’t read anything of Benson’s outside of his Bond yarns but I don’t doubt that fact that he is a better, if not a much better writer now. Personally, and not that I’m aware of the business end of the literary world but in theory, hiring Benson along with an experienced, successful writer where they could have worked together to smooth it all out, seems like potential...if possible...and all considerations taken into account...

    It was a bit crazy. I think they'd have been better off going the route of other fan stuff like Star Wars etc. and having a rotating band of writers making them rather that giving the job to just one guy. I recently re-read Forever and a Day on holiday and then skipped to a Benson and there was just no comparison: Horowitz is a professional and very solid writer and Benson just wasn't.
    I think their relaunch with top name writers was a great idea for the brand though, regardless of how well we thought they all turned out.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 2,599
    “It was a bit crazy. I think they'd have been better off going the route of other fan stuff like Star Wars etc. and having a rotating band of writers making them rather that giving the job to just one guy. I recently re-read Forever and a Day on holiday and then skipped to a Benson and there was just no comparison: Horowitz is a professional and very solid writer and Benson just wasn't.
    I think their relaunch with top name writers was a great idea for the brand though, regardless of how well we thought they all turned out.[/quote]”

    I like to look at the whole celebrity author writing stint as an experiment to find the right man :) and in my mind, they certainly have in Horowitz. I’m not the sort of person who likes to get my hopes up too much but it’d be great if he went on and on... As this is his third (a mere trilogy?) and it’s set at the end of Fleming’s series, I guess it could be his last but I’ll try not to think about it. :). I’m confident that the new one will be another triumph.

    Forever And A Day, albeit another great read, was a bit of a strange one for me. It read somewhat like a young bond novel, mostly in terms of Bond’s character. I guess this somewhat stands to reason what with Bond’s lack of experience and freshness.

    I hope in the new one that H will make Bond a little more opinionated in typical Fleming style, even if it’s just in the form of inner monologue.

    There were two lines - one in TM and one in FAAD that didn’t sit well with me. In terms of the former, it was when Galore made the remark of Bond going off to save the world and in the other, when Bond was on heroin and said something like, “I’m James Bond of the secret service and I have a license to kill!” Too cheesy and played in the movie world. Still, I guess if you’re on the narcotics...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2021 Posts: 16,498
    Yes, I found the stuff about him being given the martini habit and his Morlands cigarettes by Sixtine a bit much: he's a guy who decides these things for himself, he's not given them by anyone else.
    I have a feeling Horowitz might be three and out as he's put them at the beginning, middle and now end of Fleming's stories, but they may well persuade him to do more.

    Personally I'd still like Charlie Higson to have a crack at some point.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 2,599
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, I found the stuff about him being given the martini habit and his Morlands cigarettes by Sixtine a bit much: he's a guy who decides these things for himself, he's not given them by anyone else.
    I have a feeling Horowitz might be three and out as he's put them at the beginning, middle and now end of Fleming's stories, but they may well persuade him to do more.

    Personally I'd still like Charlie Higson to have a crack at some point.

    Yeah, true. Her recommending him use the cigarette case was fine but as for the other things, I agree, he should have decided on these other items through his own experience.

    Charlie Higson? Yes. Me too.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2021 Posts: 18,297
    mtm wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    I always felt like IFP made a mistake hiring Benson just because of the bedside companion. As I said, I haven’t read anything of Benson’s outside of his Bond yarns but I don’t doubt that fact that he is a better, if not a much better writer now. Personally, and not that I’m aware of the business end of the literary world but in theory, hiring Benson along with an experienced, successful writer where they could have worked together to smooth it all out, seems like potential...if possible...and all considerations taken into account...

    It was a bit crazy. I think they'd have been better off going the route of other fan stuff like Star Wars etc. and having a rotating band of writers making them rather that giving the job to just one guy. I recently re-read Forever and a Day on holiday and then skipped to a Benson and there was just no comparison: Horowitz is a professional and very solid writer and Benson just wasn't.
    I think their relaunch with top name writers was a great idea for the brand though, regardless of how well we thought they all turned out.

    I think that was IFP's way of returning to the old Glidrose idea for the late 1960s and into the 1970s of having different authors write under the umbrella pseudonym of Robert Markham. This initial idea was discarded after the first novel in the proposed series, Kingsley Amis's Colonel Sun (1968), didn't sell as well as was hoped, not to mention the adverse critical notices. I think the "Celebrity Authors Trilogy" of Faulks, Deaver and Boyd was an attempt to return to the "famous author writing one Bond novel each" idea which was ditched after Colonel Sun. The selection of Sebastian Faulks (and to an extent William Boyd) were IFP's version of hiring an author of the calibre of Kingsley Amis to write a Bond novel.

    After this three book experiment IFP decided to hire long-time Bond fan Anthony Horowitz to write a new series of Bond novels following the John Gardner approach that you need a proven thriller writer to write Bond thrillers. The added bonus of unused Fleming Bond material being included in the books has certainly helped cement Horowitz's place as a legitimate literary heir to Fleming. It gave Horowitz an advantage that none of the other Bond continuation authors up to then had had. It was also useful to have Fleming's name on the cover as a sort of co-author from a marketing hype and sales point of view.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Bounine wrote: »

    There were two lines - one in TM and one in FAAD that didn’t sit well with me. In terms of the former, it was when Galore made the remark of Bond going off to save the world and in the other, when Bond was on heroin and said something like, “I’m James Bond of the secret service and I have a license to kill!” Too cheesy and played in the movie world. Still, I guess if you’re on the narcotics...

    Those were the two bits that didn't sit well with me either. I think there was also another moment in TM were it highlights Bond being the good guy hero. I cannot remember the exact phrase used now, or where it appeared, but again it was too cheesy and belonged in Movie Bond world.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It might be the bit when Bond has a bit of an internal dialogue with himself about killing a young guard, and describes how at the last second he changes the angle of attack from his hand to only render him unconscious not kill him ?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2021 Posts: 18,297
    It might be the bit when Bond has a bit of an internal dialogue with himself about killing a young guard, and describes how at the last second he changes the angle of attack from his hand to only render him unconscious not kill him ?

    Sounds a bit like the way Craig Bond sometimes holds back from an outright kill in the contemporaneous Bond films. Perhaps those have been an influencing factor on the Horowitz novels as well as Fleming's novels? Every Bond continuation novel from Colonel Sun onwards has been published with the shadow of the Bond films hanging over them so even if it is only subconsciously they are bound to have some influence on the novels. Even Fleming's novels were being influenced slightly by the films by the end too so its all pervasive.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,657
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, I found the stuff about him being given the martini habit and his Morlands cigarettes by Sixtine a bit much: he's a guy who decides these things for himself, he's not given them by anyone else.
    I have a feeling Horowitz might be three and out as he's put them at the beginning, middle and now end of Fleming's stories, but they may well persuade him to do more.

    Personally I'd still like Charlie Higson to have a crack at some point.

    I think that Sixtine was Horowitz’s version/answer to Vesper/Tracy.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    It might be the bit when Bond has a bit of an internal dialogue with himself about killing a young guard, and describes how at the last second he changes the angle of attack from his hand to only render him unconscious not kill him ?

    Fleming's Bond doesn't kill if he can avoid though, does he? I'm sure I remember him talking about how he doesn't kill in cold blood.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, I found the stuff about him being given the martini habit and his Morlands cigarettes by Sixtine a bit much: he's a guy who decides these things for himself, he's not given them by anyone else.
    I have a feeling Horowitz might be three and out as he's put them at the beginning, middle and now end of Fleming's stories, but they may well persuade him to do more.

    Personally I'd still like Charlie Higson to have a crack at some point.

    I think that Sixtine was Horowitz’s version/answer to Vesper/Tracy.

    Possibly, and she was a brilliant character to be honest: I really enjoyed her in it otherwise.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Bond doesn't like killing, but he takes a pride in doing it well . I think it's mentioned in the early part of Goldfinger
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2021 Posts: 18,297
    Bond doesn't like killing, but he takes a pride in doing it well . I think it's mentioned in the early part of Goldfinger

    It is indeed, after the killing of the capungo. Roger Moore said he'd read this passage and that it was his entry key into how he played the Bond character in his films.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 9,849
    Birdleson wrote: »


    If IFP have given their writers carte blanche to ignore the work of all other continuation authors that would include ignoring Colonel Sun. Personally, I would prefer that all of the work of the continuation authors be held as canonical and treated as such in new installments, unless a new author were to regard their book as some kind of an Elseworlds Bond tale.

    I'm the opposite, I prefer to think of nothing canonical post Fleming (aside, for me personally due to it's quality and pedigree, COLONEL SUN, but I see no reason anyone else need to). Fleming is dead, this is all just glorified fan fiction to some degree. I have no problem letting the continuation authors pick and choose where and when they place their adventurers and what they choose to include, our not include, post Fleming ( I do take umbrage with those that ignore Fleming, as in Pearson and Deaver). It's not the real stuff, no scholars, if anyone aside from a few legacy Bond fanatics, will be discussing Gardner or Benson or Horowitz and their body of work in 100 years. Where I'm certain that Fleming will continue to be the focus of study and theory.

    either way I prefer the novels take place in our current time I wouldn't mind if Fleming's novels took place within the last 10 years from now whenever now is and 40 year old 007 is fighting whatever new threat is here.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,657
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »


    If IFP have given their writers carte blanche to ignore the work of all other continuation authors that would include ignoring Colonel Sun. Personally, I would prefer that all of the work of the continuation authors be held as canonical and treated as such in new installments, unless a new author were to regard their book as some kind of an Elseworlds Bond tale.

    I'm the opposite, I prefer to think of nothing canonical post Fleming (aside, for me personally due too it's quality and pedigree, COLONEL SUN, but I see no reason anyone else need to). Fleming is dead, this is all just glorified fan fiction to some degree. I have no problem letting the continuation authors pick and choose where and when they place their adventurers and what they choose to include, our not include, post Fleming ( I do take umbrage with those that ignore Fleming, as in Pearson and Deaver). It's not the real stuff, no scholars, if anyone aside from a few legacy Bond fanatics, will be discussing Gardner or Benson or Horowitz and their body of work in 100 years. Where I'm certain that Fleming will continue to be the focus of study and theory.

    either way I prefer the novels take place in our current time I wouldn't mind if Fleming's novels took place within the last 10 years from now whenever now is and 40 year old 007 is fighting whatever new threat is here.

    This is why I liked Carte Blanche a lot. For three main reasons: First, it was the first James Bond novel I ever read. Second, it’s the only one set it’s present time for the last 15 years of books. Fleming’s books weren’t period books when they were written. Third, all those recurring supporting characters used feels like an author could take them further to the future with more books set in the present. I know my thoughts are considered controversial, but the material is there if they wanted it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,498
    I wouldn't be averse to another modern one. I don't mind too much either way really.
  • Posts: 9,849
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »


    If IFP have given their writers carte blanche to ignore the work of all other continuation authors that would include ignoring Colonel Sun. Personally, I would prefer that all of the work of the continuation authors be held as canonical and treated as such in new installments, unless a new author were to regard their book as some kind of an Elseworlds Bond tale.

    I'm the opposite, I prefer to think of nothing canonical post Fleming (aside, for me personally due too it's quality and pedigree, COLONEL SUN, but I see no reason anyone else need to). Fleming is dead, this is all just glorified fan fiction to some degree. I have no problem letting the continuation authors pick and choose where and when they place their adventurers and what they choose to include, our not include, post Fleming ( I do take umbrage with those that ignore Fleming, as in Pearson and Deaver). It's not the real stuff, no scholars, if anyone aside from a few legacy Bond fanatics, will be discussing Gardner or Benson or Horowitz and their body of work in 100 years. Where I'm certain that Fleming will continue to be the focus of study and theory.

    either way I prefer the novels take place in our current time I wouldn't mind if Fleming's novels took place within the last 10 years from now whenever now is and 40 year old 007 is fighting whatever new threat is here.

    This is why I liked Carte Blanche a lot. For three main reasons: First, it was the first James Bond novel I ever read. Second, it’s the only one set it’s present time for the last 15 years of books. Fleming’s books weren’t period books when they were written. Third, all those recurring supporting characters used feels like an author could take them further to the future with more books set in the present. I know my thoughts are considered controversial, but the material is there if they wanted it.

    110% I want bond in the modern age
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,297
    Risico007 wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »


    If IFP have given their writers carte blanche to ignore the work of all other continuation authors that would include ignoring Colonel Sun. Personally, I would prefer that all of the work of the continuation authors be held as canonical and treated as such in new installments, unless a new author were to regard their book as some kind of an Elseworlds Bond tale.

    I'm the opposite, I prefer to think of nothing canonical post Fleming (aside, for me personally due too it's quality and pedigree, COLONEL SUN, but I see no reason anyone else need to). Fleming is dead, this is all just glorified fan fiction to some degree. I have no problem letting the continuation authors pick and choose where and when they place their adventurers and what they choose to include, our not include, post Fleming ( I do take umbrage with those that ignore Fleming, as in Pearson and Deaver). It's not the real stuff, no scholars, if anyone aside from a few legacy Bond fanatics, will be discussing Gardner or Benson or Horowitz and their body of work in 100 years. Where I'm certain that Fleming will continue to be the focus of study and theory.

    either way I prefer the novels take place in our current time I wouldn't mind if Fleming's novels took place within the last 10 years from now whenever now is and 40 year old 007 is fighting whatever new threat is here.

    This is why I liked Carte Blanche a lot. For three main reasons: First, it was the first James Bond novel I ever read. Second, it’s the only one set it’s present time for the last 15 years of books. Fleming’s books weren’t period books when they were written. Third, all those recurring supporting characters used feels like an author could take them further to the future with more books set in the present. I know my thoughts are considered controversial, but the material is there if they wanted it.

    110% I want bond in the modern age

    Indeed. It was the perfectly serviceable means of providing new Bond novels for the first forty years of the continuation. I suppose the point of changing to period-set Bond novels was that the literary Bond was seen as an anachronism in the age of the iPhone but the same could be said of the 1980s and the brick-like mobile phones of that era and that seemed to work fine.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 2,599
    Spying in the golden ages seemed like more fun - telegrams and no digital technology etc. LOL.

    I’m not adverse to a Bond novel set in modern day but the author would have to be relatively faithful to the character unlike Deaver who transformed Bond into someone who was virtually unrecognizable. A contemporary Bond doesn’t have to be a chauvinist, not that I’ve ever felt that Fleming’s Bond was too guilty in this area anyway (I remember a comment in one of the books where Bond was internalizing how women should be at home with their pots and pans or something like that) but for my ideal modern Bond he would still have to be flawed to some degree. For example, I see no reason why a contemporary Bond couldn’t drink a bit too much every now and then and having maybe one or two cigarettes on some evenings as they relax him in a psychological capacity. In terms of the booze, look at Thor in ‘Avengers: End Game’. LOL. I don’t think Bond should drink to the point where he becomes fat of course though and he needs to keep up with the exercise obviously. Plus, he is not actually a superhero. :) In regard to the smokes however, unfortunately I just can’t see it happening. Even though these are ‘adult’ Bond books, kids will read them.

    Also, if they were novels where feminism was blatantly shoved down our throats then I’d stay away from them. I’ve never fully understood all these feminist oriented comments time and time again by women playing Bond girls in the newer films. There are some tough girls, mentally (they don’t always have to be physical equals as this just isn’t realistic), in the Fleming books. I’m reading Diamonds Are Forever again which is set in the fifties and damn, that Tiffany Case is a tough lady. She is even patronizing towards Bond and he takes it all in his stride.
  • Posts: 9,849
    Bounine wrote: »
    Spying in the golden ages seemed like more fun - telegrams and no digital technology etc. LOL.

    I’m not adverse to a Bond novel set in modern day but the author would have to be relatively faithful to the character unlike Deaver who transformed Bond into someone who was virtually unrecognizable. A contemporary Bond doesn’t have to be a chauvinist, not that I’ve ever felt that Fleming’s Bond was too guilty in this area anyway (I remember a comment in one of the books where Bond was internalizing how women should be at home with their pots and pans or something like that) but for my ideal modern Bond he would still have to be flawed to some degree. For example, I see no reason why a contemporary Bond couldn’t drink a bit too much every now and then and having maybe one or two cigarettes on some evenings as they relax him in a psychological capacity. In terms of the booze, look at Thor in ‘Avengers: End Game’. LOL. I don’t think Bond should drink to the point where he becomes fat of course though and he needs to keep up with the exercise obviously. Plus, he is not actually a superhero. :) In regard to the smokes however, unfortunately I just can’t see it happening. Even though these are ‘adult’ Bond books, kids will read them.

    Also, if they were novels where feminism was blatantly shoved down our throats then I’d stay away from them. I’ve never fully understood all these feminist oriented comments time and time again by women playing Bond girls in the newer films. There are some tough girls, mentally (they don’t always have to be physical equals as this just isn’t realistic), in the Fleming books. I’m reading Diamonds Are Forever again which is set in the fifties and damn, that Tiffany Case is a tough lady. She is even patronizing towards Bond and he takes it all in his stride.

    my issue with Deaver's Bond is he wasnt willing to sleep with a girl because she had a Fiancé

    I would prefer a Bond who is willing to sleep with any girl who wants him
  • Posts: 1,634
    As for Bond and engaged ladies -- please recall Fleming's Moonraker and Gala Brand.

    As for Bond and smoking, drinking, using drugs, etc. -- Bond used drugs in Fleming's novels. Fleming's Bond clearly has an addictive personality / addiction genes. He does not merely drink, he drinks a LOT. He does not merely smoke, he's a smokestack. He uses various drugs regularly. He is so unbridled in his pursuit of women -- Gala Brand excepted -- that, were someone to have done all that in actuality, he'd have contracted numerous STDs over the years, and spread them around, for that matter. But he's pretty a super-man, so it all works out ok. It's tied to real-world elements, but at its heart the Bond story-telling is fantasy. The man men want to be, and the man women want.
  • Posts: 9,849
    Since62 wrote: »
    As for Bond and engaged ladies -- please recall Fleming's Moonraker and Gala Brand.

    As for Bond and smoking, drinking, using drugs, etc. -- Bond used drugs in Fleming's novels. Fleming's Bond clearly has an addictive personality / addiction genes. He does not merely drink, he drinks a LOT. He does not merely smoke, he's a smokestack. He uses various drugs regularly. He is so unbridled in his pursuit of women -- Gala Brand excepted -- that, were someone to have done all that in actuality, he'd have contracted numerous STDs over the years, and spread them around, for that matter. But he's pretty a super-man, so it all works out ok. It's tied to real-world elements, but at its heart the Bond story-telling is fantasy. The man men want to be, and the man women want.

    I want bond to sleep with the attractive girl sorry but I do.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,657
    Carte Blanche was a modern day Bond novel in the Me-Too era, before there was a Me-Too era.
  • Posts: 9,849
    https://crimereads.com/the-best-espionage-novels-of-2020/

    I would almost prefer any of the authors in this list of horowitz.
  • Posts: 1,634
    I would prefer a Bond who is willing to sleep with any girl who wants him
    Quote

    Hmmm...Irma Bunt ? Rosa Klebb ? This is the part where you say that by "girl" you meant a lady of or about Bond's age or younger-but-within-reason.

    As for a villain-not villain differentiation, sometimes, Bond cannot yet tell the lady's true inclinations, or even is convinced she is on the same side as him, but turns out to have been wrong.

    At any rate, Gala Brand was true blue, and, though she found Bond attractive, did not really "want" (as in, "hubba-hubba ! let's get buck wild !") him, as she genuinely was in love with her fiance. By the way -- her fiance, if I recall correctly, was serving in Her Majesty's military. That sort of thing matters in Bond's views.
  • Posts: 9,849
    Since62 wrote: »
    I would prefer a Bond who is willing to sleep with any girl who wants him
    Quote

    Hmmm...Irma Bunt ? Rosa Klebb ? This is the part where you say that by "girl" you meant a lady of or about Bond's age or younger-but-within-reason.

    As for a villain-not villain differentiation, sometimes, Bond cannot yet tell the lady's true inclinations, or even is convinced she is on the same side as him, but turns out to have been wrong.

    At any rate, Gala Brand was true blue, and, though she found Bond attractive, did not really "want" (as in, "hubba-hubba ! let's get buck wild !") him, as she genuinely was in love with her fiance. By the way -- her fiance, if I recall correctly, was serving in Her Majesty's military. That sort of thing matters in Bond's views.

    sigh not to play too much of my hand but when I read fiction and the writer describes this beautiful amazing woman and the hero doesn't sleep with her I am annoyed.

    trust me before I was married I knew MANY girls who were attractive who I could never date I dont need to see that same dynamics in fiction.

    I am sure many will read between the lines but yeah I am who I am
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