No Time To Die - Awards Chatter, Nominations and Results

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  • Posts: 1,723
    Ironically, we are all here because of our fondness for a rather violent chap but, as a member of the Academy myself, I believe that violence in any form is unacceptable.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Thank you for that, @delfloria.
  • Will Smith has now apologized to Chris Rock. Of course he would have had to if he ever wanted to be invited back to the Oscars .
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,696
    matt_u wrote: »
    Rock definitely knew about her disease - she publicly opened up about it and kept posting stuff on social media since then - but Smith made a mistake.

    Well, Jada is barely famous. I'm not sure all that many people pay the attention she's sought...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 15,141
    I think if Rock hadn’t paid her any attention then he wouldn’t have been making a joke about her.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited March 2022 Posts: 1,696
    mtm wrote: »
    I think if Rock hadn’t paid her any attention then he wouldn’t have been making a joke about her.

    I'm pretty sure one might make a joke about a person sitting 20 feet in front of them and appears to have chosen to shave her head without having watched her Instagram videos about her brave struggle. I certainly had no idea about it, and anecdotally, most people appear to have learned of it after the incident. And TMZ, according to my news app, says Rock didn't know about it.

    Chris Rock isn't really the type of comic who goes out to make fun of someone's illness, even one that apparently has hair loss as its only symptom.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 15,141
    I didn't know she had it either, but I'm not in the Hollywood bubble like these guys are. I didn't even know about their marriage situation which seems to have been the butt of Rebel Wilson's Bafta jokes, but I'm pretty sure Wilson knew about it before she made the joke. Her condition seems to have been very well-publicised, and generally if you're writing jokes about some celebs (people that you most probably know personally) I think there's a pretty good chance that you might have googled them beforehand.
    You seem to be saying it's her fault for wanting attention, and I'm just pointing out that Chris Rock clearly has been paying her attention whether you think she deserves it or not.
    As I said, I would be surprised if Rock said that he didn't know about her condition, because it sounds very much like a weak weaselly excuse even if it's true. He certainly didn't seem very confused about why he got the slap.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    edited March 2022 Posts: 575
    I think what gets me is that Smith initially laughs and she rolls her eyes.. He then leaps to her defence. That's just how it looks from what we see and if that's the case... Then I really wish women would stop doing that and I wish men would stop falling for it. It's my job to say something, not my husbands, and it would only tell me my husband is a violent moron if mine reacted in the same way. I wouldn't be impressed and it wouldn't buy him any brownie points with me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,141
    Yes my armchair psychology reading of it was that part of the reason he overreacted like that was because he did the initial polite laughter at the joke, then saw his wife's reaction and felt he needed to make it up to her for laughing.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,696
    mtm wrote: »
    . He certainly didn't seem very confused about why he got the slap.

    Well, he said "It was a GI Jane joke!" Seemed slightly confused to me.

    He had previously made a joke about Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz both being nominated, and then moved on to the Smiths, and how that wasn't a problem for them. That appeared to be the crux of the gag for that segment, and it's probably a bit meaner than the GI Jane thing!


    00Heaven wrote: »
    I think what gets me is that Smith initially laughs and she rolls her eyes.. He then leaps to her defence. That's just how it looks from what we see and if that's the case... Then I really wish women would stop doing that and I wish men would stop falling for it. It's my job to say something, not my husbands, and it would only tell me my husband is a violent moron if mine reacted in the same way. I wouldn't be impressed and it wouldn't buy him any brownie points with me.

    Great comment. I've seen a number of comments to the effect that "well I hope my husband would do the same!" and I would hope the fashionable equation of words with violence doesn't lead to widespread Sicilian-style concepts of honor. We can do better.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Comedians that make fun of people's appearances for cheap laughs aren't good comedians. In that case it doesn't matter if their appearance is a part of a illness or not. I've no idea if that is what Rock usually does but regardless what strikes me (apologies for the pun) is that the reaction feels disproportionate.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 15,141
    mtm wrote: »
    . He certainly didn't seem very confused about why he got the slap.

    Well, he said "It was a GI Jane joke!" Seemed slightly confused to me.

    He had previously made a joke about Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz both being nominated, and then moved on to the Smiths, and how that wasn't a problem for them. That appeared to be the crux of the gag for that segment, and it's probably a bit meaner than the GI Jane thing!

    No I think laughing at someone's medical condition and their appearance for a cheap gag is pretty cruel; meaner than laughing about a professional situation. Your mileage may vary which is totally fine, but I'd say that if you do something very unkind like that then you'd need to be prepared for the butt of the joke (or their loved ones) to do something unkind back to you, and they may even overreact like Smith did so you need to be careful with it. It's not ideal but it's just kind of how the world works.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    edited March 2022 Posts: 575
    My take on the "It's a G.I. Jane joke" is that Rock knew what he was doing but he didn't have to. He wanted Smith to look small and stupid but didn't realise that Smith already achieved that to 50% of people by reacting in the way that he did. Obviously to the other 50% they'll agree with his reaction.

    I haven't watched the Oscars but it looked like he was roasting Cruz/Bardem before it cut to Smith/Jada. If he was roasting them for their appearance then I would say that invalidates him saying it's just a G.I Jane joke because then his small routine was completely about roasting appearances.

    EDIT: Also thank God Ricky Gervais wasn't hosting. There'd have been a brawl lol.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,141
    I'm not really sure why these awards shows have turned into big roasts now, it's kind of relentless 'you're rubbish, no one has seen your film, I don't know who you are' stuff and it feels rather lazy and pointlessly cruel. I like a bit of gentle ribbing and teasing as much as the next person, but the roasting stuff has become rather lazy and easy and very much lacking in charm.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Well, that's just it. It's cheap, easy and gets the quickest laughs. As I said it doesn't make a good comedian. I'm indifferent on it and have no real opinion about it apart from that. It just doesn't offend/appeal to me. It is what it is.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    The Bardem/Cruz thing was actually pretty flat. I think the joke was about how both of them are nominated and Javier can't win if Penepole loses. I guess because he can't celebrate in her face? Pretty flat and nothing about appearences.

    I took the "It's a GI Jane joke" as him basically saying: "Mate, that's by far the tamest thing I could have gone with for you guys." He even says "That was a nice one" after people are not really laughing about it and before getting slapped.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,141
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Well, that's just it. It's cheap, easy and gets the quickest laughs. As I said it doesn't make a good comedian. I'm indifferent on it and have no real opinion about it apart from that. It just doesn't offend/appeal to me. It is what it is.

    Yeah I'm not offended by it, just a bit bored by the whole thing. I actually think it can be done well and very skilfully with charm to diffuse it, but a few too many comedians have hopped on the bandwagon without actually managing to do it well in recent years.
    The Bardem/Cruz thing was actually pretty flat. I think the joke was about how both of them are nominated and Javier can't win if Penepole loses. I guess because he can't celebrate in her face? Pretty flat and nothing about appearences.

    Yes I must say I kind of disregarded that joke as it was so nothingy.
    I took the "It's a GI Jane joke" as him basically saying: "Mate, that's by far the tamest thing I could have gone with for you guys." He even says "That was a nice one" after people are not really laughing about it and before getting slapped.

    Absolutely.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,050
    One joke that did get a chuckle out of me in a previous year was Gervais' crack about DiCaprio's girlfriend going to the premiere of Once Upon A Time In Hollywood and being too old for him by the time the film was over.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited March 2022 Posts: 1,696
    I would also put hairstyles in the fashion category as something you can make fun of. But of course I may have a bigger "things you can make fun of" box than some others. And my "things you can make fun of without being assaulted" box is limitless...!

    But if we're focusing on words, did nobody else find Will's speech about what God is doing through him extremely weird? Hitting a guy and then saying "love makes you do crazy things" is the language of a real creep. Or talking about how much he loved "protecting" various women in the film who presumably did not require or request his protection...it seemed very, er, "old-fashioned", to put it one way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,141
    I would also put hairstyles in the fashion category as something you can make fun of. But of course I may have a bigger "things you can make fun of" box than some others. And my "things you can make fun of without being assaulted" box is limitless...!

    Alopecia isn't a 'hairstyle' though.
    But if we're focusing on words, did nobody else find Will's speech about what God is doing through him extremely weird? Hitting a guy and then saying "love makes you do crazy things" is the language of a real creep. Or talking about how much he loved "protecting" various women in the film who presumably did not require or request his protection...it seemed very, er, "old-fashioned", to put it one way.

    Yeah it seemed like he's struggling a bit, and some of the language did have the whiff of the sort of excuses domestic violence perpetrators use (I'm not saying he is one: just that the excuses are similar).
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,696
    mtm wrote: »

    Alopecia isn't a 'hairstyle' though.

    Which Chris may or may not have been aware of. The TMZ headline says he wasn't, and I don't think most people were, but who knows. I too have lost true choice when it comes to hairstyles ;-) so I will confess I don't feel all that precious about it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,010
    I can't believe anyone is defending Smith assaulting a comedian. Seriously.

    Back on topic, I found Eilish's acceptance of the Oscar a welcome respite from the unpleasantness of Smith's action.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,141
    mtm wrote: »

    Alopecia isn't a 'hairstyle' though.

    Which Chris may or may not have been aware of. The TMZ headline says he wasn't, and I don't think most people were, but who knows.

    It seems to be very well-publicised in all of those circles so I find the idea he didn't to be pretty suspect. He's supposed to have done his research on all of these people, and I would imagine he probably knows most of them.
    And honestly: if I see a woman with a shaved head my first thought can be 'oh gosh, I hope she hasn't been ill' as it can often be a sign of something much worse. If I don't know I don't make a joke about it, so I'd be surprised if he decided to wade in with no info at all and he would seem even more at fault if he did.
    I too have lost true choice when it comes to hairstyles ;-) so I will confess I don't feel all that precious about it.

    Well, I don't think that's how it works for alopecia, especially for women where hair loss is much more uncommon and upsetting. It's a dick move to make a joke about it, it's an overreaction to give him a slap; but it was deserving of a reaction in some way.
    Personally I think people are way overreacting about a slap and the whole thing is more funny than any sort of sign of a terrible decline in society.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,946
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Exactly! Comediens tell jokes at other eagle's expense. Ricky Gervais slaughtered several attendees at awards shows and was never physically assaulted. Besides, it wasn't the joke that made Smith slap Rock, it was a culmination of years of public ridicule, frustration, emasculation and the need of constant approval from his wife which made him lose control. Regina Hall earlier that night poked fun at their marriage. Will Smith is a simp and embarrassed himself by trying to regain a level of masculinity by assaulting Chris Rock. Had it been someone else of a similar size or bigger Smith would have stayed in his seat and continued his overly animated fake laughs.

    Every word of this. Smith wasn't defending his wife's honour, because after she's spent so long telling the world about all the other men and women she's slept with while still married to Will, that boat's sailed. Will Smith's had to sit and listen to Jada regale the media with his cuckoldry for a long time now - I can't help but see this as years of pent-up humiliation coming out. But like Jimjam said, I do suspect that he wouldn't've done it if Chris Rock hadn't been a wee 5ft pixie man who couldn't fight back.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,696
    echo wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone is defending Smith assaulting a comedian. Seriously.

    Well you have people who like outmoded gender roles, and you have people who build ethics around feelings and identity rather than actions or intent. Inadvertently working toward the same ends, they can find violence noble, or as above, "funny".
  • Posts: 328
    00Heaven wrote: »
    My take on the "It's a G.I. Jane joke" is that Rock knew what he was doing but he didn't have to. He wanted Smith to look small and stupid but didn't realise that Smith already achieved that to 50% of people by reacting in the way that he did. Obviously to the other 50% they'll agree with his reaction.

    I haven't watched the Oscars but it looked like he was roasting Cruz/Bardem before it cut to Smith/Jada. If he was roasting them for their appearance then I would say that invalidates him saying it's just a G.I Jane joke because then his small routine was completely about roasting appearances.

    EDIT: Also thank God Ricky Gervais wasn't hosting. There'd have been a brawl lol.

    He wasn't roasting Bardem or Cruz' appearance. He made a harmless joke about there being trouble in paradise if Penelope didn't win and Bardem did. It was a harmless clean joke. As for the Smiths, the real bizarre thing is that Rock's joke wasn't even an insult. Jada usually has hair. This is the first time she's publicly come out without any hair and all he said was looking forward to seeing her in GI Jane 2. I'm sorry but getting emotionally upset over such a remark is ridiculous, talk less of attacking the man for it.

    If you look closely, the joke came and went and the audience only was only escalated their laughter when Jada visibly rolled her eyes and then seconds later Jada gaslights Mr "emasculated-man in crisis big Willy" goes up and needlessly slaps him for it.

    Chris Rock did nothing wrong. Meanwhile we have a whole thread here dedicated to Daniel Craig’s hair been ridiculed for receding etc. The mental gymnastics, fake virtue signalling and oversensitive snowflake society in which we live in is deeply concerning.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 15,141
    echo wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone is defending Smith assaulting a comedian. Seriously.

    Well you have people who like outmoded gender roles, and you have people who build ethics around feelings and identity rather than actions or intent. Inadvertently working toward the same ends, they can find violence noble, or as above, "funny".

    Some people find others' illnesses funny I guess, swings and roundabouts really.
    I'll take a bit of slapstick over that any day.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Chris Rock did nothing wrong. Meanwhile we have a whole thread here dedicated to Daniel Craig’s hair been ridiculed for receding etc. The mental gymnastics, fake virtue signalling and oversensitive snowflake society in which we live in is deeply concerning.

    So no-one should be oversensitive about a slap.
    It's not exactly the first time a comedian has had a tap for making a bad joke: check out Jerry Sadowitz and Canada :)
    I'm not offended or concerned by either of them: one guy made a bad joke, another overreacted wildly to it. It's not a reflection of a terrible society, it's just a couple of guys embarrassing themselves.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Will Smith has become „Will Smash“. And The Academy is considering to change the category of his award. Two options: „Leading actor in a punching role“, or „leading puncher in an acting role“.
  • Posts: 328
    mtm wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone is defending Smith assaulting a comedian. Seriously.

    Well you have people who like outmoded gender roles, and you have people who build ethics around feelings and identity rather than actions or intent. Inadvertently working toward the same ends, they can find violence noble, or as above, "funny".

    Some people find others' illnesses funny I guess, swings and roundabouts really.
    I'll take a bit of slapstick over that any day.
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Chris Rock did nothing wrong. Meanwhile we have a whole thread here dedicated to Daniel Craig’s hair been ridiculed for receding etc. The mental gymnastics, fake virtue signalling and oversensitive snowflake society in which we live in is deeply concerning.

    So no-one should be oversensitive about a slap.
    It's not exactly the first time a comedian has had a tap for making a bad joke: check out Jerry Sadowitz and Canada :)
    I'm not offended or concerned by either of them: one guy made a bad joke, another overreacted wildly to it. It's not a reflection of a terrible society, it's just a couple of guys embarrassing themselves.

    True but I wasn't referring to being oversensitive about the slap but rather the joke that seemingly caused the slap.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 2,946
    As for 'keep my wife's name out of your mouth' - bit rich considering she's spent years telling the media about all the other people who've put things in her mouth while she's been married to Will. If only Chris Rock had thought of that riposte...bet Ricky Gervais would have! What? Ah come on, it's just a joke, guys, - what're you gonna do, slap me for it? Oh...
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