And the Bondie for inspired casting/under-rated performance for an actress...page 134

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Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    I'm not sure the traction table thing would actually kill him either - it's far more likely to paralyze Bond, which is to me a crueller fate.
    But, at least it's exciting.

    Like most things that aren't the dialogue or Barry's music in DAF, the attempt to kill Bond by Wint and Kidd is boring as hell. That gets my vote.
  • YOLT because it has to go out of it’s way to set up the death, where as TB is just a circumstance. I actually think FYEO and DAF are quite fun however.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    Like most things that aren't the dialogue or Barry's music in DAF, the attempt to kill Bond by Wint and Kidd is boring as hell. That gets my vote.

    It's a good point. I do find it quite a nightmarish idea to be stuck in a tunnel under a desert though so it's not quite at the bottom of the list for me.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,788
    May I write in one of Drax's many "attempts at an amusing death"?

    What about luring Bond into shooting a pheasant while having a sniper try to kill him? Then when that doesn't work, just give a taxi to the airport...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2020 Posts: 14,961
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    May I write in one of Drax's many "attempts at an amusing death"?

    What about luring Bond into shooting a pheasant while having a sniper try to kill him? Then when that doesn't work, just give a taxi to the airport...

    Haha! I love that :D

    I guess when Drax says 'you defy my attempts to provide an amusing death for you' he literally means it: he doesn't see any point in killing Bond unless it's funny! :D
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,936
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    May I write in one of Drax's many "attempts at an amusing death"?

    What about luring Bond into shooting a pheasant while having a sniper try to kill him? Then when that doesn't work, just give a taxi to the airport...
    That is pretty funny. You'd think that a man who's achieved as much as Drax wouldn't be the type to give up so quickly.

    Looking at the list, I'll choose DAF for this one. Bond could've easily woken up right next to an escape hatch and left before the welding rig neared.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Come on, it must be DAF. This is incredibly stupid and they would definitely see him before the piece of the pipeline is put in the ground. I mean, the piece isn't much longer than Bond's body.
    He was already unconscious in the elevator. Kill him there, damn, kill him!
    But I have to admit that the YOLT moment isn't much smarter.
    And yes, the MR pheasant shoot doesn't make much sense but it is such a cool moment that I would never write something against it.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    I have changed my mind, I go for DAF.

    You've all convinced me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    thedove wrote: »
    Here are the nominees for worst attempt to kill double-o-7!
    • TB’s Count Lippe attempts to stretch Bond to death on a traction table
    • YOLT’s Helga pilots Bond up and then puts a plywood piece over his hands the leave him to crash in the plane the whole thing is cringe worthy
    • DAF’s Wint and Kidd decide putting a comatose Bond in an oil pipeline will kill him? The pet rat begs to differ.
    • FYEO’s Kristatos decides he would rather knell haul Melina and Bond behind the boat shark baiting
    • AVTAK’s Zorin uses his improv skills and leaves Bond and Stacey in a burning elevator

    Okay which one of these nominees should get a kick to the shins? What is the worst attempt to kill Bond?

    - I don't think Lippe is trying to Kill Bond at all. After all they just met. It's a message to Bond to stop nosing around. Of course he's kind enough to return the favour and steam Lippe a little.
    - This one I never fathomed. As has been stated before, where does the little plywood come from? It's also rather convenient that Bond was holding his hands there. Did they think it would look like an accident when the plane crashed leaving a dead passenger and no pilot (presuming they presumed Bond can't fly. He certainly didn't hand in the flying plane himself). The execution of the scene is appalling as well. The escape of Bond, the crash, it doesn't look natural at all.
    - Yes, one that leaves a lot of questions anwered, but at least you can spin a story around it, that they paid off those workers to bury him and expected him to get lost in the piping system. Smart, however, it definately is not.
    - This one comes directly from Fleming, and in the book it's rather well explained. A perfect way to a 'clean kill', where everything points to a natural accident, with the added bonus of shark-cruelty over a simple kill.
    - At least Zorin explains why he does it this way, and for him it shouldn't make that much of a difference if they survive or not, having them set up with the kill in the first place. Shooting them first and then putting them in the elevator might point at him, as he was seen going to the building as well.

    So, YOLT wins.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2020 Posts: 14,961
    Yeah the AVTAK makes as much sense as any to me, and the keel hauling is just a nice bit of sadism. The main problem is that he very quickly assumes that 'the sharks have them'! :)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the AVTAK makes as much sense as any to me, and the keel hauling is just a nice bit of sadism. The main problem is that he very quickly assumes that 'the sharks have them'! :)

    True, but that's just a bit of sloppy villainism. And how should he know they'd left her scuba gear at that place just for such an occasion.....
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    YOLT leaped to mind before I read the list, so YOLT it is.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,977
    I had wondered if people would cast some love for FYEO. I can see I was right. I love that whole sequence. Yes it was a clumsy way to kill them, but it reveals some wonderful character points of Bond. "We aren't dead yet." Love the way Moore delivers that line.

    I have always found Helga's attempt laughable. She over complicates things and the whole thing looks shabbily executed. So YOLT gets my vote.

    Wint and Kidd do some nice attempts and kills in the film. But taking him to a pipeline when he's unconscious makes no sense. Given how brutal they have been in their attempts and successes through out the film. I give it a pass just because DAF is a guilty pleasure of mine.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the AVTAK makes as much sense as any to me, and the keel hauling is just a nice bit of sadism. The main problem is that he very quickly assumes that 'the sharks have them'! :)

    True, but that's just a bit of sloppy villainism. And how should he know they'd left her scuba gear at that place just for such an occasion.....

    Yes it is impossibly convenient. And ridiculous! :) Why does she even do that?
  • Posts: 5,811
    mtm wrote: »

    Yes it is impossibly convenient. And ridiculous! :) Why does she even do that?[/quote]

    It's explaine in the comic book adaptation : it's a habit she has. Leaving a scuba gear with some air till inside allows her to stay longer on underwater archeological digs. Logical, if you think about it. Of course, the villains couldn't know that.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the AVTAK makes as much sense as any to me, and the keel hauling is just a nice bit of sadism. The main problem is that he very quickly assumes that 'the sharks have them'! :)

    True, but that's just a bit of sloppy villainism. And how should he know they'd left her scuba gear at that place just for such an occasion.....

    Yes it is impossibly convenient. And ridiculous! :) Why does she even do that?

    Do you think AVTAK is an attempt to correct this mistake in FYEO? ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2020 Posts: 14,961
    Gerard wrote: »

    It's explaine in the comic book adaptation : it's a habit she has. Leaving a scuba gear with some air till inside allows her to stay longer on underwater archeological digs. Logical, if you think about it. Of course, the villains couldn't know that.

    Oh okaay... I guess that sort of does make sense. How odd they don't give her a quick line on the surface to explain it.
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the AVTAK makes as much sense as any to me, and the keel hauling is just a nice bit of sadism. The main problem is that he very quickly assumes that 'the sharks have them'! :)

    True, but that's just a bit of sloppy villainism. And how should he know they'd left her scuba gear at that place just for such an occasion.....

    Yes it is impossibly convenient. And ridiculous! :) Why does she even do that?

    Do you think AVTAK is an attempt to correct this mistake in FYEO? ;)

    You mean the tyre-breathing bit?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Yes.
  • Posts: 7,500
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    May I write in one of Drax's many "attempts at an amusing death"?

    What about luring Bond into shooting a pheasant while having a sniper try to kill him? Then when that doesn't work, just give a taxi to the airport...

    Haha! I love that :D

    I guess when Drax says 'you defy my attempts to provide an amusing death for you' he literally means it: he doesn't see any point in killing Bond unless it's funny! :D

    And yet he belittles the Brittish for having a strange sense of humor ;))
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,691
    YOLT, for the reasons stated above, but also because it looks just godawful.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Speaking of Moonraker... What about Jaws' attempt at killing Bond in the cable lift in Rio? As I see it he has two very sensible ways of going about it: 1. Tamper with the cable so the lift falls with Bond in it. 2. Wait until they are down and surprise attack.

    But no. Why not arrange for the lifts to stop beside each other in mid air and then jump from one to the other and kill Bond there. Makes perfect sense... :))
  • I'll go for Wint & KIdd's leaving Bond in a pipe that hasn't even been turned into a pipeline yet. YOLT's plane crash is goofy enough in its way...but Helga appeals to me in a fashion that Wint & Kidd will never be able to match. So: my vote is for a double kick in the shins to W&K.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    jobo wrote: »
    Speaking of Moonraker... What about Jaws' attempt at killing Bond in the cable lift in Rio? As I see it he has two very sensible ways of going about it: 1. Tamper with the cable so the lift falls with Bond in it. 2. Wait until they are down and surprise attack.

    But no. Why not arrange for the lifts to stop beside each other in mid air and then jump from one to the other and kill Bond there. Makes perfect sense... :))

    Ah but you reckoned without his masterstroke of... pretend ambulancemen! :D It's all very logical really- the whole thing was to lull Bond into a false sense of security so that the evil paramedics could creep up on him unawares. Genius.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Yes @jobo , the cable car scene is on the same (very low) level as the nominated scenes from DAF and YOLT. FYEO, TB and AVTAK can't be compared to these stupid plans.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Just on the Moonraker cable car bit. It's always amused and puzzled me in equal measure why Bond immediately says they are "better out than in" as soon as it stops. I've been in cable cars that have stopped mid-ride on several occasions, sometimes with several strangers in the car. Not once has someone said "I don't know why we've stopped but I'm sure we'll be better outside on the roof. WTF.
  • Posts: 1,883
    DAF all the way. Was it by Blofeld's order to put Bond in a pipe or did he just leave it up to Wint and Kidd how they wanted to dispose of him? Those two wouldn't have lasted in the old SPECTRE given their rate of failure in not ending Bond. And if it was Blofeld, he should've had to off himself given his surprise when Saxby phones him Bond is alive and says "That's impossible!" Either way, given Bond's nasty habit of surviving, who thought "Hey, let's bury him in a pipe, that'll keep him out of our way" was at all a good idea?

    Commander Ross responded with some good comments on the other candidates.

    -I also don't think Lippe was attempting to kill Bond, just harm him. Not sure this has aged well as a scene or form of torture. A lot of youngsters probably have a good laugh at this one.
    -The YOLT plane scene sure is getting a lot of votes. I think the plan makes sense. Did that plane have an Osato logo on it? They could very easily have said Bond stole the plane and it crashed and killed him. Sure it's another case of why not just shoot him, but so are all the other examples.
    -For years, I never thought the Kristatos keelhauling scene looked that dangerous. It just seemed very escapable. My most recent viewing of FYEO I liked it a bit more and found it more sadistic than I had. I still quibble about the all too convenient incidence of Melina leaving her tanks below. Do divers actually do that?
    -As Commander Ross said, Zorin planned Bond and Stacy's deaths well with the elevator fire. His problem, like so many villains before and after, is not learning from earlier mistakes of making sure Bond actually dies, given his surviving so many other attempts on his life. Of course, the building was on fire, so... Also, Zorin seems surprised to find Bond alive at City Hall. Wouldn't the thugs that invaded Stacy's house have reported he was alive?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    cwl007 wrote: »
    Just on the Moonraker cable car bit. It's always amused and puzzled me in equal measure why Bond immediately says they are "better out than in" as soon as it stops. I've been in cable cars that have stopped mid-ride on several occasions, sometimes with several strangers in the car. Not once has someone said "I don't know why we've stopped but I'm sure we'll be better outside on the roof. WTF.

    I’ve always loved that line, it’s utter madness :D
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    BT3366 wrote: »
    -I also don't think Lippe was attempting to kill Bond, just harm him. Not sure this has aged well as a scene or form of torture. A lot of youngsters probably have a good laugh at this one.

    My understanding of that scene in the film is likely tainted by the similar events of the novel where it was explicitly stated that Lippe was trying to warn Bond off rather than kill him - at least at the beginning. There was a real competitive streak to the events that occurred between the two and it just got out of hand, and got worse when Bond had his tattoo analysed. The film, already long, doesn't have the luxury of explaining this.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    BT3366 wrote: »
    -I also don't think Lippe was attempting to kill Bond, just harm him. Not sure this has aged well as a scene or form of torture. A lot of youngsters probably have a good laugh at this one.

    My understanding of that scene in the film is likely tainted by the similar events of the novel where it was explicitly stated that Lippe was trying to warn Bond off rather than kill him - at least at the beginning. There was a real competitive streak to the events that occurred between the two and it just got out of hand, and got worse when Bond had his tattoo analysed. The film, already long, doesn't have the luxury of explaining this.

    Same with the keel hauling sequence, the novel made it seem worse - with the coral ripping into the flesh and salt water flushing the wounds etc. Saying that, I think the sequence in the film is one of the best of the series. Moore is great in it, the effects are excellent, it's a great moment for me.

    The explanation of the tanks being there to help with Melina's diving makes a lot of sense. Would have been nice to let us know in advance, though. Kristatos assuming they have been quickly eaten by sharks is convenient, but it's a Bond film...what can you do? The only think I put it down to in these cases is villainous arrogance. Sure, they should know better, but they just don't.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    BT3366 wrote: »
    -I also don't think Lippe was attempting to kill Bond, just harm him. Not sure this has aged well as a scene or form of torture. A lot of youngsters probably have a good laugh at this one.

    My understanding of that scene in the film is likely tainted by the similar events of the novel where it was explicitly stated that Lippe was trying to warn Bond off rather than kill him - at least at the beginning. There was a real competitive streak to the events that occurred between the two and it just got out of hand, and got worse when Bond had his tattoo analysed. The film, already long, doesn't have the luxury of explaining this.



    The explanation of the tanks being there to help with Melina's diving makes a lot of sense. Would have been nice to let us know in advance, though. Kristatos assuming they have been quickly eaten by sharks is convenient, but it's a Bond film...what can you do? The only think I put it down to in these cases is villainous arrogance. Sure, they should know better, but they just don't.

    Yeah I think as echo says, AVTAK handled that better- it would have been nice if there was a bit of equipment down there which they repurposed in some way- like we see a guy using a water jet to clear debris from the ruins, but maybe if Bond had seen someone using some sort of air blower to clean an artefact off they could have gone down and used that maybe.
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