The What if thread...What if Dalton had starred in GE instead of Brosnan?

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  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,238
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes Michael said that the audience didn't need to see how Bond became Bond. That it would take away the mystique of the character. I couldn't have agreed more. But at least now we know how Bond killed a bombmaker. We know that Blofeld and him are somewhat like brothers. Yech! I think Cubby was on to something. LOL!

    I had forgotten just how young Brosnan was in 1986. Which surprises me. He really did look too young to play the part.

    He was very skinny/wiry as well,he needed to physically mature.
    I think it all worked out well for him,he was needed in 1995 to rescue the series !

    Chalk it up to a run by fruiting
  • Posts: 700
    It seemed like the audience was very much split at the time of TLD. A lot of hardcore Bond fans and a lot of critics seemed to like the move from the Moore era, but general audience was okay but not overwhelmed with enthusiasm, at least here in the U.S.

    Dalton made the publicity rounds but he'd never be seen as having the personality of a Moore or Brosnan even and that may have contributed somewhat to people not taking to him. Bond fatigue and the rise of brawnier action heroes, as someone else mentioned, also had to factor in.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 255
    Even though I can imagine Brosnan in TLD, I'm glad he wasn't in it because it would have been written differently to suit Brosnan. I doubt Pierce could pull off the sniper scene like Timothy or the Pushkin interrogation for that matter (which is one of my favourite all time Bond moments) I think Dalton and maybe Craig are the only actors that could pull off that cold ruthless killer stare

    I'm glad Pierce didn't star in Daylights to be honest because it's one of my favourite movies and Dalton is superb in the role and his tougher edge was much needed at this point during the franchise. Plus when Brosnan did eventually take the role in Goldeneye he was perfect and made that film what it was.

    On a separate note I hate the way Brosnan shares throwback pictures from his original screen-test, it shows little in the way of class. It's not like he wasn't Bond later on, he should be past his bitterness over Daylights
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Or @Jordo007 is it just him enjoying and embracing his connection to Bond? How would sharing a pic slag or slight Dalton? His bitterness is probably with the folks of MTM and NBC who enforced the contract...I doubt we see him on any Remington Steele reunion shows or retrospectives. LOL!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Okay lets stay with another casting what if. In the time after OHMSS and the fact that Lazenby wasn't coming back to play James Bond. Cubby and Harry were faced with having to cast another actor to play James Bond. I am not sure who and what was causing them to look at American actors but it's been rumoured that Adam West and even Burt Reynolds were given consideration as James Bond. Cubby and Harry eventually signed John Gavin to play James Bond in DAF.

    Lets not debate the actor per se. Lets talk about what an American James Bond? What impact would it have had on the series to have an American actor play the role? Would the series have continued? Why do you think they were looking at Americans to play the British spy? Maybe it wasn't a big deal, after all we'd had a Scot and a Aussie playing Bond, would an American actor been able to pull it off?
  • edited August 15 Posts: 1,530
    I think it would have been a disaster, especially with a charisma-free actor like Gavin. American audiences would have probably rejected an American actor with an obviously put-on English accent--Bond was supposed to be foreign. British audiences would have been deeply resentful to see a national hero played by a Yank. I would like to think that even if Picker hadn't intervened, Cubby and Harry would have come to their senses. Because if they hadn't the series would have been wrecked.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    The fact that they even signed Gavin to a contract is surprising to me. But without debating the merits of his acting ability. I would say it was a bold move to even consider a Yank to play the British secret agent. Maybe it was the anti-Lazenby way to go. They had tried a unknown with Lazenby and it failed. Maybe they thought a American actor would bring better box office?

    I am still trying to get my head around Burt Reynolds playing Bond. Course it was a rumour he was ever considered. But wow I am not sure that would have been a wise choice.
  • Posts: 9,702
    I've also been fascinated by the Gavin situation. Just watched PSYCHO again last night and he was quite dashing and an excellent hero. But not Bond.

    Had he played the part and the film had a less than expected box office, I believe today we'd view the Bond films as an era long past. It took the Roger films and constant keeping up with the times to survive.

    Had the film been a hit, then the 70's Bond simply would have been different. The films would be tailored around Gavin's strengths and personality.

    I think they'd still be current. A MOONRAKER with Gavin might still see Bond going into space. Perhaps the film would have more of the tone of a thriller, though.
    I think DIAMONDS might have had more or less the same tone with Gavin though.
  • Posts: 3,685
    Only seen Gavin in Psycho, didn’t have a strong American accent. If the newbie could pull off a British accent it could have worked.

    They were generally looking for a box office draw for the US market. Even looked at Clint Eastwood.
  • gt007gt007 Station G
    Posts: 1,169
    I wasn't around back then, but I think Bond wasn't considered a British icon, as he is today. He was the phenomenon that pretty much started the spy craze of the 60s. More like a worldwide phenomenon, rather than a British icon in people's minds. So I'm not too surprised they were considering an American Bond for DAF.

    What's more surprising is that they were still considering it a decade later, when they screen tested Brolin for OP.

    I think it would have changed the franchise quite a bit. Personally, I think it would have caused more damage than good.

    Nowadays, the fact that Bond is a British icon is a big part of the promotion, both for Bond and the UK tourism. That wouldn't be the case had Bond became an American. It also means that they wouldn't consider an Ameican Bond today.
  • Posts: 700
    If you read some of the reports from back then, Eon was heavily testing and considering American actors. Everybody from a pre-superstar Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood to Adam West. They seemed very intent on leaning American for whatever reason.

    A question I've always had was why they didn't go back to the actors who tested with Lazenby in that famous Life Magazine story such as John Richardson and the others whose names elude me at the moment. If they were being considered three years prior then why not in '71?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    I think @BT3366 we are missing some of the story perhaps. It doesn't make much sense to me either. They had just tested so many from 1968 and like you I would think it would have been worth re-visiting. I wonder why they decided to go with an American actor. I would have been intrigued by Adam West playing Bond. Though audiences might have too heavily identified him with Batman. He had the look and I think the same type of delivery as Moore's Bond when it came to the one-liners.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,030
    thedove wrote: »
    I think @BT3366 we are missing some of the story perhaps. It doesn't make much sense to me either. They had just tested so many from 1968 and like you I would think it would have been worth re-visiting. I wonder why they decided to go with an American actor. I would have been intrigued by Adam West playing Bond. Though audiences might have too heavily identified him with Batman. He had the look and I think the same type of delivery as Moore's Bond when it came to the one-liners.

    I agree, I could see him in Roger Moore films. Maybe even as Felix Leiter!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,676
    thedove wrote: »
    I think @BT3366 we are missing some of the story perhaps. It doesn't make much sense to me either. They had just tested so many from 1968 and like you I would think it would have been worth re-visiting. I wonder why they decided to go with an American actor. I would have been intrigued by Adam West playing Bond. Though audiences might have too heavily identified him with Batman. He had the look and I think the same type of delivery as Moore's Bond when it came to the one-liners.

    Adam West is DECADENT!
  • Posts: 1,530
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If you read some of the reports from back then, Eon was heavily testing and considering American actors. Everybody from a pre-superstar Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood to Adam West.

    Were any of those actors actually tested though? Or were their names just mentioned to draw attention to Bond? Who actually was tested after Lazenby's departure, aside from Gavin?

  • Posts: 3,685
    Revelator wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If you read some of the reports from back then, Eon was heavily testing and considering American actors. Everybody from a pre-superstar Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood to Adam West.

    Were any of those actors actually tested though? Or were their names just mentioned to draw attention to Bond? Who actually was tested after Lazenby's departure, aside from Gavin?

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,225
    I’ve never seen that before!
  • edited August 15 Posts: 9,702
    vzok wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If you read some of the reports from back then, Eon was heavily testing and considering American actors. Everybody from a pre-superstar Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood to Adam West.

    Were any of those actors actually tested though? Or were their names just mentioned to draw attention to Bond? Who actually was tested after Lazenby's departure, aside from Gavin?


    Wow! Who was the guy playing Bond there? Not John Gavin.


    Update: Roger Green.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 255
    thedove wrote: »
    Or @Jordo007 is it just him enjoying and embracing his connection to Bond? How would sharing a pic slag or slight Dalton? His bitterness is probably with the folks of MTM and NBC who enforced the contract...I doubt we see him on any Remington Steele reunion shows or retrospectives. LOL!

    @thedove fair enough mate. I just thought it was a bit poor of him, because he has enough great pictures of him as Bond from his movies, rather than to post a low quality pic from a screentest. But each to their own
  • edited August 16 Posts: 3,685
    I’ve never seen that before!

    I hadn't seen it either until a few weeks ago. Never heard of him. I knew Imogen Hassall from The Persuaders and the Carry On movies.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,676
    Let s not forget that the very first Bond actor was indeed American.
    MV5BMTU2NjU1NzM2NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjM3NTMxOA%40%40._V1_SY1000_CR0%2C0%2C797%2C1000_AL_.jpg?itok=mZ5c8c4K
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited August 17 Posts: 1,961
    Good old Jimmy Bond! Always laughed during LALD when the cab driver calls him Jim! LOL!

    There is no pics or video of any of the Eastwood, Reynolds, West gang screen testing for the role. We are going on the word of articles and such which I suppose is a dodgy game. I would be curious to know whether they were expected to put on the British accent or just be American.

    We do know that Gavin was contracted to play Bond. When David Picker got involved he quickly did a full court press to get Connery back. Whether that was because he saw the screen test of Gavin, or if he just felt that Cubby and Harry weren't going to dare ask Connery back. Lets face it asking him back would have meant swallowing some pride.

    Found this on YouTube. The guy took footage of Gavin from a 1968 French film and dubbed it a bit. Not sure he could have done the role justice but it's interesting:

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 151
    thedove wrote: »
    We do know that Gavin was contracted to play Bond. When David Picker got involved he quickly did a full court press to get Connery back. Whether that was because he saw the screen test of Gavin, or if he just felt that Cubby and Harry weren't going to dare ask Connery back. Lets face it asking him back would have meant swallowing some pride.

    Found this on YouTube. The guy took footage of Gavin from a 1968 French film and dubbed it a bit. Not sure he could have done the role justice but it's interesting:


    The 1968 film is “OSS 117 Murder for Sale.” Interestingly, Luciana Paluzzi (TB) and Curd Jürgens (TSWLM) are also credited. On balance, I think that the future US Ambassador to Mexico would have been a poor choice to play Bond. A fair actor, his acting career, however, was in decline by 1971.

    The perception at UA was that the franchise couldn’t afford a 2nd straight “mediocre” box-office result. Hence, they wanted to bring back Connery (a sure thing, in their opinion).

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,225
    Looking at the screen test, I’m sure as hell Connery returned to bring back some charisma to Bond.
  • Posts: 700
    What's also noteworthy is how they seemed intent on making that 2-year schedule rather than stepping back and taking a stronger look at the potential candidates unless they were bound to going with Gavin. Of course, I'm looking at this with today's perspective where they seem to drag these things out for years.

    Also interesting that nearly a decade before, the UA execs were saying to keep trying when Eon wanted Connery. So you never know.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,225
    Ultimately, I think the right choice was made with Connery returning. It allowed EON to have one hit before they could gamble for a new actor, and Connery recommended Moore for the part.

    The biggest “what if” of the 60s always seems to be Connery in OHMSS, but I also wonder how Moore would have fared well in it, and if he was more easily accepted than Lazenby in ‘69. Diana Rigg commented she wish she had either Connery or Moore to act with.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,961
    Perfect segue @MakeshiftPython Lets tackle another a what if that always seems to bring out some passion.

    Some early prints of GF showed that the next Bond adventure was going to be OHMSS. They even had scouted some locations when GF was filming in Switzerland. This would have meant OHMSS being filmed in 1965 with Connery fresh off GF success and in great shape thanks to The Hill.

    So Mi6. What if Mclory hadn't approached Cubby and Saltzman with his proposal of TB. What if they had gone ahead with the filming of OHMSS in 1965 as planned. What would this film look like? Would a 1965 Connery been right for the role? Would Peter Hunt had still directed? Or would we get a Terrence Young OHMSS? What would a different director and actor have done to the story?

    What if Cubby and Saltzman had produced OHMSS after GF instead of TB?
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 1,030
    According to The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service book, Richard Maibaum would have made Blofeld and Goldfinger brothers, of all kinds! With Gert Forbe to play the part again! It would have been unique, in either way!
  • Posts: 619
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    According to The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service book, Richard Maibaum would have made Blofeld and Goldfinger brothers, of all kinds! With Gert Forbe to play the part again! It would have been unique, in either way!
    So Brothergate goes a long way back.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 1,225
    I thought the Goldfinger twin with Forbe returning was proposed for DAF?
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