The Female 007 and the Women of NTTD

145791039

Comments

  • Posts: 11,504
    So will the PTS be about the new 007 then? No James Bond at all? How about it being Nomi doing the Gun Barrel sequence?!!! Will everyone be cool about those two possibilities? Especially seeing as this is Daniel's final outing?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 1,923
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »

    The cries of racism and misogyny are tired. Wanting equality applies both ways; as in wanting black representation to be EARNED, instead of piggybacking on already established white characters. Theft is theft, regardless of the trumped up reasons for it.

    The cries are not tired and they will not be tired until racist and misogynists stop being the assholes they are and pretending their arguments are anything other than what they are. Black representation needs to be earned? You really wrote that? You’d say that to a black man or woman’s face?
    How are they piggybacking off established white characters when their race is entirely incidental to their character? That makes no sense. How has an entirely new black female character not earned representation? Having Felix or Moneypenny played by black actors is theft to you? Do you hear yourself? Stamping your feet and insisting that you don’t want black actors playing roles because they’re traditionally played by white actors? And you say the cries of racism are tired.

    So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really? Again, why change the race/gender at all if it doesn't matter?
    THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED THE RACE/GENDER! HOW MANY TIMES. IT'S COMPLETELY NEW CHARACTER WITH THE CODENAME BECAUSE JAMES BOND ISN'T AN AGENT ANYMORE. OH MY GOD.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger The out of control room.
    Posts: 33,911
    Mod Edit: A bit much.

    Mod edits are often a bit much.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 3,516
    We can't slag off Star Wars fans for their lack of rationale anymore.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 15 Posts: 9,823
    I feel quite bad for Lashana. She's been the victim of verbal attacks on social media by uninformed idiots for the past 24 hours.

  • Posts: 9,193
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    So will the PTS be about the new 007 then? No James Bond at all? How about it being Nomi doing the Gun Barrel sequence?!!! Will everyone be cool about those two possibilities? Especially seeing as this is Daniel's final outing?

    I’d prefer if Daniel still had the gun barrel. I wouldn’t even be surprised though if it opened with a Nomi gunbarrel and closed with a Bond one. PTS without Bond I’d actually be in favor of if done well since that hasn’t been done in a long time. Nomi could be set up out of the gate well with a solid PTS too.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld Minnesota USA
    Posts: 2,284
    Who's looking forward to Noami 1 we should be talking about her. Bond is irrelevant.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 1,923
    I don't think they'd do that @FoxRox, for Craig's last one, they'll give him the gunbarrel.
  • Posts: 11,243
    Depending on the events of the film, they could place the gunbarrel at the very end, featuring Craig.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld Minnesota USA
    edited July 15 Posts: 2,284
    So Bond isn't irrelevant interesting.
  • Posts: 11,504
    FoxRox wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    So will the PTS be about the new 007 then? No James Bond at all? How about it being Nomi doing the Gun Barrel sequence?!!! Will everyone be cool about those two possibilities? Especially seeing as this is Daniel's final outing?

    I’d prefer if Daniel still had the gun barrel. I wouldn’t even be surprised though if it opened with a Nomi gunbarrel and closed with a Bond one. PTS without Bond I’d actually be in favor of if done well since that hasn’t been done in a long time. Nomi could be set up out of the gate well with a solid PTS too.

    As people have argued, Bond is out the service, so why would their be a GB with him in it? Therefore the PTS will have the same reasoning I would have thought?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 15 Posts: 1,923
    But the gunbarrel is never part of the narrative.

    It's an introduction to the film because our main character is still James Bond, and if someone tells me he's not, I'll fight back cause these people know what they're doing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,156
    Bond is in the gun barrel and he’s in the PTS. Calm yourselves.
  • Posts: 3,248
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond is in the gun barrel and he’s in the PTS. Calm yourselves.

    Exactly. Nomi is a supporting character.

    This is cool:

    D_hzM6qWwAIOH1r?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
  • Posts: 11,504
    She is 007?!!!
  • Posts: 9,193
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond is in the gun barrel and he’s in the PTS. Calm yourselves.

    Exactly. Nomi is a supporting character.

    This is cool:

    D_hzM6qWwAIOH1r?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    That’s cool!
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 858
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really?

    Sadly, we both know the answer is that a black female Superman would not have been as successful or globally recognised. And we probably both know that’s down to inherent racism and sexism in society. Because people such as yourself would decry a black female Superman, just as you’re decrying a black female secret agent. Should there have been better representations in our media? Absolutely. Perhaps if there had been we wouldn’t still be arguing whether a black person in a film role was a good or bad thing. Because - I can almost not believe it - that’s what we’re doing here.

    You ask why change the race or gender if it doesn’t matter? Well, that’s a good question. It doesn’t matter if, say, Moneypenny is black or white. That has no bearing on her as a character. But look around. How many black female characters are there? Very, very few. So, if it doesn’t matter either way whether they’re black if white, then just because of the fact they are so badly represented, they should be black. How can you not see that?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 15 Posts: 9,823
    Some of you have quite literally lost your minds. For those of you who actually remotely believe Lashana Lynch is replacing Daniel Craig as Bond, or that a black woman can't be a 00 agent - I genuinely feel sorry for you. This is not a franchise-ruining, monumental change. This is a very simple, one-film idea.

    Let's try to stay civil and avoid attacking Lashana herself (can't believe this is even a discussion, I expect this kind of behavior from Star Wars fans). Thanks.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,156
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    She is 007?!!!

    What are you saying?
  • edited July 15 Posts: 11,243
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond is in the gun barrel and he’s in the PTS. Calm yourselves.

    Exactly. Nomi is a supporting character.

    This is cool:

    D_hzM6qWwAIOH1r?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    Fan art is already starting to be made. Fantastic! Love the minimalistic design of this one.
  • Posts: 3,248
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really?

    Sadly, we both know the answer is that a black female Superman would not have been as successful or globally recognised. And we probably both know that’s down to inherent racism and sexism in society. Because people such as yourself would decry a black female Superman, just as you’re decrying a black female secret agent. Should there have been better representations in our media? Absolutely. Perhaps if there had been we wouldn’t still be arguing whether a black person in a film role was a good or bad thing. Because - I can almost not believe it - that’s what we’re doing here.

    You ask why change the race or gender if it doesn’t matter? Well, that’s a good question. It doesn’t matter if, say, Moneypenny is black or white. That has no bearing on her as a character. But look around. How many black female characters are there? Very, very few. So, if it doesn’t matter either way whether they’re black if white, then just because of the fact they are so badly represented, they should be black. How can you not see that?

    If anything superhero fans get it more. Captain American went from being Chris Evans to Anthony Mackie with minimal fuss.

    It's the title that is interchangeable. Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson are two different people, but they are both Captain America at different intervals.

    _79c1bb70-7178-11e9-9308-6ffbdc5c45a7.jpg

    How is this still difficult for people to fathom?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 15 Posts: 9,823
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    So if Superman had been a black female for the past 80 years the character would be as successful and globally recognized as it is today? Really?

    Sadly, we both know the answer is that a black female Superman would not have been as successful or globally recognised. And we probably both know that’s down to inherent racism and sexism in society. Because people such as yourself would decry a black female Superman, just as you’re decrying a black female secret agent. Should there have been better representations in our media? Absolutely. Perhaps if there had been we wouldn’t still be arguing whether a black person in a film role was a good or bad thing. Because - I can almost not believe it - that’s what we’re doing here.

    You ask why change the race or gender if it doesn’t matter? Well, that’s a good question. It doesn’t matter if, say, Moneypenny is black or white. That has no bearing on her as a character. But look around. How many black female characters are there? Very, very few. So, if it doesn’t matter either way whether they’re black if white, then just because of the fact they are so badly represented, they should be black. How can you not see that?

    If anything superhero fans get it more. Captain American went from being Chris Evans to Anthony Mackie with minimal fuss.

    It's the title that is interchangeable. Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson are two different people, but they are both Captain America at different intervals.

    _79c1bb70-7178-11e9-9308-6ffbdc5c45a7.jpg

    How is this still difficult for people to fathom?
    Because they are so outraged by the clickbait headlines that they won't even choose to listen to the full story. A female agent assumes the 007 codename at some point within the five years that Bond is off of active service.

    Some people take this as - Lashana is taking over Craig as 007, paving the way for a new franchise with her in the lead.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe S.A.R.A.H.Moderator
    Posts: 10,699
    Surely this is less about stopping there being a black female spy, then it is about the '007' being given to a new character, for reasons, that to some people, might not hold up to much scrutiny. Is Lynch played 009, we wouldn't be seeing all of.... this, right now.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 858
    Surely this is less about stopping there being a black female spy, then it is about the '007' being given to a new character, for reasons, that to some people, might not hold up to much scrutiny. Is Lynch played 009, we wouldn't be seeing all of.... this, right now.
    You think?
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited July 15 Posts: 15,842
    If she was 009 it would have been great to see her be salty at Bond for crashing her DB10 in Spectre and then have Bond question her music tastes over the "Atmosphere" button. :))
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 9,823
    Surely this is less about stopping there being a black female spy, then it is about the '007' being given to a new character, for reasons, that to some people, might not hold up to much scrutiny. Is Lynch played 009, we wouldn't be seeing all of.... this, right now.
    If Lynch was playing 009 then it wouldn't be nearly as interesting. This is a very good way of challenging Bond without significantly altering anything important.
  • edited July 15 Posts: 11,243
    Murdock wrote: »
    If she was 009 it would have been great to see her be salty at Bond for crashing her DB10 in Spectre and have then have Bond question her music tastes over the "Atmosphere" button. :))

    That's actually a missed opportunity!
  • Posts: 11,504
    RC7 wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    She is 007?!!!

    What are you saying?

    :)) Well just that? Have mentioned about the GB and PTS. If she is the new established 007? Why wouldn't it be her in those 2 sequences? I know what I agree and disagree with? I am just playing devils advocate now to see the opposite response? Which I conclude is a situation where as always someone's gonna get angry about it.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited July 15 Posts: 11,482
    This is mostly ... crazy, in my opinion.
    I have no problem with any developments in Bond 25 I have read.
    People going batshit over possible changes in character - or God forbid a number!! - are filling pages here.

    Really, I hope Lashana just gets on with her job and keeps hearing the positives. Which are plenty, I'm sure, but not on Bond forums.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Some of you have quite literally lost your minds. For those of you who actually remotely believe Lashana Lynch is replacing Daniel Craig as Bond, or that a black woman can't be a 00 agent - I genuinely feel sorry for you. This is not a franchise-ruining, monumental change. This is a very simple, one-film idea.

    Let's try to stay civil and avoid attacking Lashana herself (can't believe this is even a discussion, I expect this kind of behavior from Star Wars fans). Thanks.

    Yeah, I agree, @jake24. I'm looking forward to Bond 25 more than ever. I trust Cary to give us a great (not mediocre) story with fantastic cinematography. Top cast. I may need to leave this forum entirely again if this continues. I hope not as I want to stay with the Originals thread until Bond 25 comes out. But I'll have to think this over. What I'm seeing happening here is very disagreeable to me, and I'm one of the older fans.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 9,823
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    She is 007?!!!

    What are you saying?

    :)) Well just that? Have mentioned about the GB and PTS. If she is the new established 007? Why wouldn't it be her in those 2 sequences? I know what I agree and disagree with? I am just playing devils advocate now to see the opposite response? Which I conclude is a situation where as always someone's gonna get angry about it.
    No, it wouldn't, and please refrain from being provocative just to stir controversy.
Sign In or Register to comment.