No Time to Die production thread (MINOR SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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  • Posts: 425
    antovolk wrote: »
    Remember that for Apple/Netflix/Amazon, they’re happy to have cinemas play their films, even as much as 3-4 weeks before release on their respective platforms. A cinema release will still almost definitely happen I’d say. Just that the major chains will of course refuse and pour even more venom than they did after the latest delay. And if a deal goes through Barbara will definitely want the Scorsese/Irishman treatment for NTTD.

    I know.

    I saw "On The Rocks" (by Sodia Coppola with Bill Murray) in the theatre on Oct 2nd.
    Since yesterday it is availabe on Apple TV+.
    So this movie only had a three week theatrical window, and everyone knew, that it would be available online after three weeks.

    It's impossible to generate a theatrical hit if people know, that the movie will be available online after only 3 weeks. So in ordner to have a good boxoffice the window for Bond has to be longer than 3 weeks, and the online release date should not be communicated beforehand.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited October 2020 Posts: 1,756
    At some point, filmmakers need to realise that the cinema experience is much harder to attain now. And it's a shame, really, going to watch a film on the big screen truly sets you in a different world for a while. But there's nothing wrong with watching a film at home. It makes your work immediately accessible.

    This way of showing films was just a matter of circumstance. We now have the tech to stream and watch movies at home, something that was not possible not too long ago.

    Some may argue that this is what makes going to a movie theater special. I think it is. But I think post-COVID, I could see a situation where theaters are a bit more niche. However I have no idea how long it will take to get the population comfortable enough to rush to the theater with zero worries again. My guess is at least a year after a successful vaccine.

    If MGM/whoever really thinks that theaters, by April, will be like pre-COVID, or close to it, are in denial.

    Take the deal. It's a profit. Get cracking on another Bond film while you're obligated to stay at home and not be out in the field creating films.
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    Remember that for Apple/Netflix/Amazon, they’re happy to have cinemas play their films, even as much as 3-4 weeks before release on their respective platforms. A cinema release will still almost definitely happen I’d say. Just that the major chains will of course refuse and pour even more venom than they did after the latest delay. And if a deal goes through Barbara will definitely want the Scorsese/Irishman treatment for NTTD.

    I know.

    I saw "On The Rocks" (by Sodia Coppola with Bill Murray) in the theatre on Oct 2nd.
    Since yesterday it is availabe on Apple TV+.
    So this movie only had a three week theatrical window, and everyone knew, that it would be available online after three weeks.

    It's impossible to generate a theatrical hit if people know, that the movie will be available online after only 3 weeks. So in ordner to have a good boxoffice the window for Bond has to be longer than 3 weeks, and the online release date should not be communicated beforehand.

    If your reasoning is true, then you have to conclude that the main appeal of theaters is exclusivity.

    In a scenario where a movie premieres at a theater and on streaming at the same time, I think most people won't even bother to go. If a title at the theater is driven on exclusivity, then an exclusive on streaming would be just as profitable.

  • Posts: 2,871
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    Remember that for Apple/Netflix/Amazon, they’re happy to have cinemas play their films, even as much as 3-4 weeks before release on their respective platforms. A cinema release will still almost definitely happen I’d say. Just that the major chains will of course refuse and pour even more venom than they did after the latest delay. And if a deal goes through Barbara will definitely want the Scorsese/Irishman treatment for NTTD.

    I know.

    I saw "On The Rocks" (by Sodia Coppola with Bill Murray) in the theatre on Oct 2nd.
    Since yesterday it is availabe on Apple TV+.
    So this movie only had a three week theatrical window, and everyone knew, that it would be available online after three weeks.

    It's impossible to generate a theatrical hit if people know, that the movie will be available online after only 3 weeks. So in ordner to have a good boxoffice the window for Bond has to be longer than 3 weeks, and the online release date should not be communicated beforehand.

    But does it *need* to be a theatrical hit? As soon as this goes to a streamer, the definition of "hit" changes entirely. The films Apple, Netflix and Amazon finance or acquire don't need to recoup with box office the way traditional distributors do. The business model becomes different entirely. As explained in the MI6 HQ article on this whole thing
    Routinely, platforms like Apple+ and Netflix will spend more on marketing to acquire a new customer than the revenue that customer brings in on their initial purchase. Once you have a customer into your eco-system, it is then all about maximizing their Total Customer Value (TCV) with products like subscriptions and additional purchases. This is the economic balancing act between CAC and TCV, and why companies will spend more to get a customer than they are initially worth. In short, Apple can drop $200m to get 'No Time To Die' for their platform, not recoup that money directly from PVOD sales, and still make money off the venture in the long term. Platforms like Apple+ and Netflix are also under pressure to report subscriber gains to Wall Street.

    For them, it doesn't matter what they're gonna be watching on ATV+ - No Time To Die or On The Rocks. As long as they're subscribed and still watching. Films like No Time To Die would be a massive marketing shop window to attract people to the service (and to also buy new Apple devices, which include a year's subscription).

    So with the financial side of things not requiring a theatrical hit, there's still, as I said, going to be an option for people to see it on the big screen. To have the communal experience should they so wish and if they believe it's safe to do so (we all have different circumstances and risk tolerance factors). If anything, having the film out in the home at the same time makes it even more of a shared communal event in this pandemic time. If people decide to skip the theatrical just because it'll be available on streaming in 3 weeks? People already do it anyway and are happy to wait 16.
  • Posts: 11,486
    Cinemas are a thing of the past: a bygone era.
    Watching movies on your phone while sitting in heavy traffic is the next big phase.
    Multitasking. It takes immense skill to concentrate on a riveting Bond epic while maneuvering on the express ways.
    I can't wait for NTTD to be streamed. This will be fun.
  • Posts: 2,871
    So, looks like $600m for global rights is what MGM (!) is asking for
  • Posts: 568
    We are seeing history unfold in front of our eyes laddies.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,757
    I would rather Bond have another delay, than go streaming. If Bond was pushed to November ‘21, I could wait.
  • Posts: 5,200
    I'm afraid the "I could wait" discourse is getting rather close to wishful thinking. Many people, by then, will have been unfortunate enough to have lost their lives. Bond fans, of course, included. This thing is here to stay for a while, and the possibility of pandemics is here to stay for good. We won't go easily back to our old ways, for fear, precaution, with hysterics or rationality. We'll have to adapt, whether we want to or not. And be intelligent about it.

    Can I wait? Well, I still have that capacity, as I'm a full blown genX. But I don't think waiting will be an option for many. I'll wait patiently, if I'm still around by then, for Bond26. As for Bond25, it's done, they have it in their hands, many of us who have been working non stop in the NHS, and have a daily contact with suffering and death, deserve a prize of some sort, and if there's the possibility of them making money on a streaming service, I have to defend that option with all I've got.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,757
    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.
  • I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you compassion and healing. 🙏🧡🙏
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,757
    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you compassion and healing. 🙏🧡🙏

    Thank you. I am lucky that I have family and friends around me, that I have been able to talk too. But... I still feel like I have been on auto pilot for the last 6 months.
  • I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you compassion and healing. 🙏🧡🙏

    Thank you. I am lucky that I have family and friends around me, that I have been able to talk too. But... I still feel like I have been on auto pilot for the last 6 months.

    You're welcome. It's great that you have that support network. I lost my dad in July. I'm a frontline worker in psychiatric care. This year has been like an endurance test. I'd love a little light at the end of the tunnel. I'd love for No Time To Die to stream in the comfort of my own home. Stay safe.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 6,256
    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    That's terrible news, so sorry to hear that.
  • Posts: 4,281
    One of the ellements in play is possibility of another delay. If you look at the negative PR that EON got from the last delay (and there must have been internal stress/arguments), is another delay really an option? It would taint the brand and drag it into farce. I think most consumers would realise and understand the exceptonal circumstances and NOT think that Bond had move permanantly to the small screen. The Brand has an enormous legacy and surely is strong enough for one single small screen release? - we need to move on IMHO .

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,757
    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you compassion and healing. 🙏🧡🙏

    Thank you. I am lucky that I have family and friends around me, that I have been able to talk too. But... I still feel like I have been on auto pilot for the last 6 months.

    You're welcome. It's great that you have that support network. I lost my dad in July. I'm a frontline worker in psychiatric care. This year has been like an endurance test. I'd love a little light at the end of the tunnel. I'd love for No Time To Die to stream in the comfort of my own home. Stay safe.

    I am sorry to hear about your dad too.

    Assuming NTTD had a streaming release, how would it earn its money back? Would it need a premium price? I don’t stream films, so I am clueless how how the system works for a release like Bond.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,069
    I think they'll go through with it. These talks don't just make news without substance. That comment by MGM is just a throwaway line.

    Or it's intentionally misleading. One could make a case that MGM is not selling the film to Apple or Netflix, but rather pursuing a partnership. It's verbal trickery.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,069
    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    That is truly sad news. My sympathies are with you and my thoughts are with your brave parents. Bless them. They are true heroes.
  • manovermanover uk
    Posts: 121
    Hopefully this is not the case. If FF9 doesnt go this way. Then why should NTTD. It will minimise the film and the bond series in general.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 476

    I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    That is truly tragic, I just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss.
    As a Brit the gratitude I have for the NHS for saving my son's life is immeasurable, the front line workers like your mum are true national treasures. Never has that been more apparent than this year. X
  • @MajorDSmythe
    Thank you. 🙏🙏
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 194
    Some speculation in this, but probably not too far from the truth:
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/don-t-hold-breath-waiting-185631914.html
  • edited October 2020 Posts: 291
    antovolk wrote: »
    So, looks like $600m for global rights is what MGM (!) is asking for
    antovolk wrote: »
    "Deadline hears none of the streamers was willing to put up more than half that amount [600m], and franchise controller Eon and principal producer Barbara Broccoli nixed the deal and might have been surprised negotiations were taking place."

    Well, this puts a very different spin on the situation. If MGM had been offered $600 million and turned it down that would've been a catastrophically stupid move as it would've more than equalled their potential box office gross.

    However, if the best offer they got wasn't even half that then there's no point in selling the film right now. It would barely even cover the production costs.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Nigeria
    Posts: 3,535
    Sorry for your loss @MajorDSmythe just look ahead and expect the best in the coming years.
  • I am well aware of the toll this virus has taken, to put it mildly. Having had the virus myself, as well as losing both of my parents (my mum was a frontline worker for the NHS), within two days, gives on an intimate idea of the suffering and death that it can cause.

    I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you compassion and healing. 🙏🧡🙏

    Thank you. I am lucky that I have family and friends around me, that I have been able to talk too. But... I still feel like I have been on auto pilot for the last 6 months.

    You're welcome. It's great that you have that support network. I lost my dad in July. I'm a frontline worker in psychiatric care. This year has been like an endurance test. I'd love a little light at the end of the tunnel. I'd love for No Time To Die to stream in the comfort of my own home. Stay safe.

    I am sorry to hear about your dad too.

    Assuming NTTD had a streaming release, how would it earn its money back? Would it need a premium price? I don’t stream films, so I am clueless how how the system works for a release like Bond.

    I'm so terribly sorry to hear about your loss @MajorDSmythe, I've also lost friends and family to this pandemic; it's a terrible thing but I'm glad you have some kind of support right now.

    In answer to your questions about streaming, so far, no company has yet to find a way to make putting a $150 million+ blockbuster on VOD profitable. These movies need to make, at minimum, $300-500 million and no film VOD title has ever made even close to that much.

    However, streaming services buying a movie outright has worked for some of the cheaper films like dramas and comedies because it essentially pays the producers a similar amount of money to what they would have made in theatres.

    But none of the films bought for streaming have had budgets even close to half of NTTD's hence that movie's massive price tag.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 3,671
    There should release it earlier on Bluray then. With stil cinema release there can release BD 4 months later after the release. 1-2 weeks after movie stops in the cinema. There have got enough time now make features and Audiocommentary besides the material there have. If there ask money for one view online (what is same in my opnion as rental Tomb Raider 2001 in 2002 for € 5,00) then there can release at same time as the Bluray.

    But even there go for straight to BD release then the movie still should get cinema when more people can go the cinema again. . I wil not re-watchting Spectre again in the cinema, but i think there should re-release Spectre in cinema and mabey also Goldeneye should get re-release. It is a shame there not already release 2 Disc BD and 3 Disc 4K (4K + 2 Disc BD) releases of those two movies atleast.

    After almoost vijf years Spectre not get his Dutch tv premiere yet, also delayd.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited October 2020 Posts: 4,069
    antovolk wrote: »
    So, looks like $600m for global rights is what MGM (!) is asking for
    antovolk wrote: »
    "Deadline hears none of the streamers was willing to put up more than half that amount [600m], and franchise controller Eon and principal producer Barbara Broccoli nixed the deal and might have been surprised negotiations were taking place."

    Well, this puts a very different spin on the situation. If MGM had been offered $600 million and turned it down that would've been a catastrophically stupid move as it would've more than equalled their potential box office gross.

    However, if the best offer they got wasn't even half that then there's no point in selling the film right now. It would barely even cover the production costs.

    NTTD will die at the box office, not because the film isn't good or because people don't want to see it. It will be because this is what MGM, EON, and Universal will find:

    5bf58d29a809d.image.jpg
  • Posts: 5,200
    @MajorDSmythe and @DoctorClatterhand, I'm sorry about your losses. I too have been on the frontline of mental health care and have experienced, seen and accompanied the loss of too many people this year. Hence my comment regarding streaming, even if I too confess my ignorance on the matter. I still maintain that they'll have to adapt somehow. There's no way things will return to normal, normal and the past are now the same thing. What comes next is everyone's guess, but we'll get through it, even if with our hearts and heads heavy. Stay safe and strong.
  • @Univex
    Thank you so much. Look after yourself. 🙏💛🙏
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