No Time to Die production thread (MINOR SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    matt_u wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really get the difference, I must admit. Team working with Felix/team working with Nomi... seems much the same to me.

    Well if eating at home is the same as eating in a restaurant, you’re right, there’s no difference.

    M must be the entity that fully trusts his agent to conduct his work, Q, the major, is the armourer and quartermaster, who gives Bond what he needs for his job. Moneypenny is M’s secretary. Felix Leiter is a CIA operative, a senior agent of a foreign intelligence service. How do you reckon Bonds interaction with all of these is the same? But I know better to discuss these things with you, dear @mtm . You’ll find a way to prove me wrong ;)

    Thing is, that Nolan trend of revealing someone to be someone else known to cannon, robin being the most parallel example to Moneypenny, put us in a situation where the staff takes front row and works with Bond via earpieces, and that does not convey the sense of danger and escapism. I know we live in times of connection and communication, but isn’t the point of these adventures to go on an adventure to a remote place with no communications and none but Bond against all the odds? Did present times and globalisation kill that sense of adventure? Good questions, I reckon.

    And precisely the reason why QOS is the best Craig film for that aspect of the character, the escapism, the exotic locations being far away from “home base”. Bond relying solely on his wits and instincts.

    Precisely. Now I know why I love it so much ;)

    Anyway even in QoS Bond teamed up. In the end he goes for Greene while Camille goes for Medrano. I believe in NTTD we will see something similar: Bond and Nomi team up breaking together inside Safin’s base and then split up for two different missions: Bond goes for Safin while Nomi rescue Swann and the mysterious kid.

    This is Craig’s last. He will be front and center of his final mission. Nomi will just be a sparring partner and I truly believe they will spend quite a few time actually together in that base.

    If the “problem” is teaming up, here it seems far more Bondian than the last two. Let’s face the truth: in SF Bond teamed up with two old, uhm, retiree. In SP there was even all the Gang in the field.

    I don’t think team ups are an issue but I do think QOS is the most successful in making the world a dangerous place.

    Yes Bond and Camille team up but she isn’t an agent. Just a kindred soul looking for her own “measure of comfort”.

    Yes Fields arrives to bring in Bond, Mathis supports him. But there’s never any scenes with Bond communicating with home base via ear piece zapping any tension from the proceedings ala SPECTRE and the car “chase”.

    Casino rightly so manages to find a very delicate balance between the danger and the support from others involved in bringing LeChiffre down. But in that film Bond has many assets to hand including extra funds as support.

    QOS is literally BOND location hoping aside from the search of Ronson’s flat in London.

    It’s the Temple of Doom of Craig Bond films.

    I think NO TIME TO DIE is aiming to find the balance from CR. But certain things in the trailer look closer to the BOND Craig was shaping up to be pre SKYFALL.

    It looks very much cut from the same wonderful “cloth” that CR and QOS were cut from and I for one cannot wait to see Craig off in style and danger!
  • Posts: 5,767
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    @TripAces yeah that is a good point mate.
    I just wish they didn't keep showing us him teamed up with people throughout the film, which seems to be the case at the moment, Madeline, Felix, Moneypenny and him go to see Q together, then Nomi and Bond raid Safin's lair. It just feels very team orientated at the moment.
    But listen that's only a slight concern and ultimately it'll be judged on the finished product, not the promo pictures.

    I could imagine that it has to do with the thing that when Bond invetsigated together with Felix in the old films, it always gave an impression of two buddies hanging out together, having a good time. In recent years this approach seems to be a crime.

  • mtmmtm
    edited January 24 Posts: 3,992
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    00Dalton7 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really get the difference, I must admit. Team working with Felix/team working with Nomi... seems much the same to me.

    Well if eating at home is the same as eating in a restaurant, you’re right, there’s no difference.

    M must be the entity that fully trusts his agent to conduct his work, Q, the major, is the armourer and quartermaster, who gives Bond what he needs for his job. Moneypenny is M’s secretary. Felix Leiter is a CIA operative, a senior agent of a foreign intelligence service. How do you reckon Bonds interaction with all of these is the same? But I know better to discuss these things with you, dear @mtm . You’ll find a way to prove me wrong ;)

    Thing is, that Nolan trend of revealing someone to be someone else known to cannon, robin being the most parallel example to Moneypenny, put us in a situation where the staff takes front row and works with Bond via earpieces, and that does not convey the sense of danger and escapism. I know we live in times of connection and communication, but isn’t the point of these adventures to go on an adventure to a remote place with no communications and none but Bond against all the odds? Did present times and globalisation kill that sense of adventure? Good questions, I reckon.

    And precisely the reason why QOS is the best Craig film for that aspect of the character, the escapism, the exotic locations being far away from “home base”. Bond relying solely on his wits and instincts.

    Precisely. Now I know why I love it so much ;)

    Anyway even in QoS Bond teamed up. In the end he goes for Greene while Camille goes for Medrano. I believe in NTTD we will see something similar: Bond and Nomi team up breaking together inside Safin’s base and then split up for two different missions: Bond goes for Safin while Nomi rescue Swann and the mysterious kid.

    This is Craig’s last. He will be front and center of his final mission. Nomi will just be a sparring partner and I truly believe they will spend quite a few time actually together in that base.

    If the “problem” is teaming up, here it seems far more Bondian than the last two. Let’s face the truth: in SF Bond teamed up with two old, uhm, retiree. In SP there was even all the Gang in the field.

    I don’t think team ups are an issue but I do think QOS is the most successful in making the world a dangerous place.

    Yes Bond and Camille team up but she isn’t an agent. Just a kindred soul looking for her own “measure of comfort”.

    Yes Fields arrives to bring in Bond, Mathis supports him. But there’s never any scenes with Bond communicating with home base via ear piece zapping any tension from the proceedings ala SPECTRE and the car “chase”.

    Casino rightly so manages to find a very delicate balance between the danger and the support from others involved in bringing LeChiffre down. But in that film Bond has many assets to hand including extra funds as support.
    But then of course it only does that by Bond effectively going rogue, which many fans can and do complain about being something they can’t bear- so you can’t please everyone that way. Before that he’s never off the phone to M telling her how he’s getting on, and then she even turns up in person to see him later on. Twice! Plus Felix gives him a hand too.
  • 00Dalton700Dalton7 Portsmouth
    Posts: 78
    I guess it’s less the minutia of each films team ups/Bond going rogue/Bond and the Scooby gang and more the handling that has the effect on how dangerous and adventurous things appear in each film which is down to the films direction, editing and score.
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 24 Posts: 10,432
    I’m no ‘leftie’ but my patience is being tested with the Nomi comments. Wait to see the movie for f*** sake. It’s getting tedious.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,992
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 24 Posts: 3,166
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).
  • mtmmtm
    edited January 24 Posts: 3,992
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).

    Ah; sorry I meant Bond villains but yes indeed, you make a good point. I guess Thanos very much copied Drax’s plan when you think about it! :)

    Certainly it makes a change for Craig: his other villains have been motivated by greed or revenge.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 3,166
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).

    Ah; sorry I meant Bond villains but yes indeed, you make a good point. I guess Thanos very much copied Drax’s plan when you think about it! :)

    Certainly it makes a change for Craig: his other villains have been motivated by greed or revenge.

    Fair play! I don't remember Moonraker the film that extensively at the moment but I do remember the novel and I know Drax' motivations there certainly were not for the betterment of humankind ;) There's an interesting article about Fleming's take on the seven deadly sins (and his seven deadlier sins) that has floated around this forum from time to time, that provides an interesting insight into the characteristics and motivations he gave his villains.
  • mtmmtm
    edited January 24 Posts: 3,992
    Oh yes I certainly meant film Drax rather than book Drax, you’re quite right! :)

    The deadly sins thing certainly rings a distant bell.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 3,166
    I definitely need to continue to refine my knowledge of film Bond!
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    TripAces wrote: »
    79542538_1032483787113621_1710220222853039952_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=LPeoRqAhs94AX8L9mi9&oh=ca39dff14aa04e5de0e9b2cbdc996b46&oe=5EA76EF7
    With this big standee up in the foyer of my local cinema, I suddenly got the feeling it is right around the corner now.

    When I see this standee, I can't help but think the concerns over Nomi being 007 are completely overblown. THIS MAN IS 007.

    No he isn't Nomi is what a disaster for publicity
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,992
    I suspect it’ll be in the papers and on magazine covers when they finally do announce it. Which’ll be great publicity.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 25 Posts: 3,126
    mtm wrote: »
    I suspect it’ll be in the papers and on magazine covers when they finally do announce it. Which’ll be great publicity.

    Really everyone who doesn't know Bond will think he has turned into a female.
  • Posts: 5,611
    the media will try and hype that, @007Blofeld ... but when Joe Public reads reviews, when they see the film, they will understand that this is a film with a retired James Bond. His double-0 will be re-assigned to someone new-- that's all.

    I have to doubt that any swath of people will think they're seeing a new James Bond film with Nomi (look at the posters, stands and previews)...

    I swear to the heavens above, that if Fleming lived long enough, he would have played with this concept; Bond would have been replaced and been witness to this replacement (shoot down in .. three... two...)... I say this because it creates dramatic irony. And IMHO, Mr. Fleming was a descriptive artist and basked in dramatic irony.....
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 25 Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    the media will try and hype that, @007Blofeld ... but when Joe Public reads reviews, when they see the film, they will understand that this is a film with a retired James Bond. His double-0 will be re-assigned to someone new-- that's all.

    I have to doubt that any swath of people will think they're seeing a new James Bond film with Nomi (look at the posters, stands and previews)...

    I swear to the heavens above, that if Fleming lived long enough, he would have played with this concept; Bond would have been replaced and been witness to this replacement (shoot down in .. three... two...)... I say this because it creates dramatic irony. And IMHO, Mr. Fleming was a descriptive artist and basked in dramatic irony.....

    If they still want to see the film after its spoiled. I'm not sure about that but he would have done it in his books but he didn't oh well doesn't matter he is dead. The 007 logo will look very jarring now I guess.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 458
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    As for the marketing, that’s completely separate from whatever happens in the film. Of course we’ll see Daniel Craig in front of a giant 007. It’s the franchise’s logo. There is no ‘James Bond’ word mark, there’s only the 007. So it will be used on posters with Craig in front. It will probably be projected behind him at the premiere, along with the title. But this is just marketing and brand recognition, as the logo represents the brand. It has no influence on the story of the film.

    Unless they change their entire marketing plan, they’ll use the 007 logo on everything. I had hoped for a bold move with posters featuring Bond and Nomi and text like ‘Daniel Craig IS James Bond / Lashana Lynch IS 007’. But everything, from the trailer over the posters to any interview with Craig or Lynch, tells me they won’t use it as a marketing ploy.
  • Posts: 5,611
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,115
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).
    Also Inferno starring Tom Hanks.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 3,166
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    True but I don't think Fleming cared as much about the "branding" of the character as EON do. Also, I feel as though YOLT was to be the last James Bond story, so it wouldn't have mattered how they left Bond.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 25 Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    @peter and he always came back and wasn't dead the thing is no one else was or is 007 then James Bond and everything is labeled James Bond 007 if he isn't 007 anymore why not chop off the 007 at least for this film but nope just confuse people. Not trying to argue :) I just don't get it all seems like a gimmick and what's the point of having her in the film then to just be a gimmick that doesn't make sense either they teased 009 in Spectre why not just make her that. All this seems a bit mushy maybe a second trailer will help clear things up or something I don't know.
  • Posts: 5,611
    All I can say @007Blofeld .... is it works for THIS story. And trust me: I know you’re not arguing! You n I have had too many good exchanges.

    All I can say is, let the story unfold

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    All I can say @007Blofeld .... is it works for THIS story. And trust me: I know you’re not arguing! You n I have had too many good exchanges.

    All I can say is, let the story unfold

    @peter ok that's true we will have to see.
  • edited January 25 Posts: 11,425
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    Interesting. Well surely this lays to bed any accusations that NTTD is trashing Fleming.

    I've never read them but it does sound like the last couple of novels were increasingly whacky. There probably isn't much Fleming wouldn't have considered doing with the character. Esp if it paid his bills, which let's face it, was one of his prime motivations for writing the books in the first place.

  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,992
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    Oh I reckon they’ll use it in publicity. It’s just too good a story, and we all want to see how James Bond reacts to being replaced by a woman. Casino Royale was the one where he gets the 007 number, this is the one where someone else has got it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Nigeria
    Posts: 2,248
    mtm wrote: »
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    Oh I reckon they’ll use it in publicity. It’s just too good a story, and we all want to see how James Bond reacts to being replaced by a woman. Casino Royale was the one where he gets the 007 number, this is the one where someone else has got it.

    Yeah, the flip coin thing....maybe it might just be done properly. And Scott Z. Burns did say Bond fans will like what comes next....not that am taking his word for it, but I guess there's no harm in being optimistic.
  • Posts: 2,713
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 25 Posts: 3,126
    antovolk wrote: »
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...

    It will be interesting what more they show and how long the trailer will be. I guess I wonder why everyone enjoys an upset Bond I prefer him in a good confident mood. License to kill was good for having him upset but this trope in this era is a bit overkill.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,348
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,992
    antovolk wrote: »
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...
    Yeah, very good point.
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