No Time to Die production thread (MINOR SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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  • QsCatQsCat London
    edited May 5 Posts: 134
    [/quote]

    I'm very worried about PWB.

    Her writing is decent - it captures you, but her jokes and humor fall flat to me. At their worst, they are basically the female version of frat boy toilet humor. Especially if you watch Fleabag - the drama and her breakdown in the last few episodes is written fantastically but everything before is just dull sexual humor and laughing at cringe/awkwardness. Killing Eve is better by a small margin and the dynamic between the two leads has potential, but again the comedy is just boring to me - just 'look at this gender-based thing I experience wow! Isn't it funny?!'

    Sorry to fans of her, but I see her humor as a higher class female version of Adam Sandler humor; mostly based around sex, bodily functions and social failure.[/quote]

    I agree, but I only watched the first episode of Fleabag. Overrated.
  • phantomvicesphantomvices Mother Base
    Posts: 297
    Mallory wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.

    I hope it resembles something like a 'Lethal Weapon' foe to friendship. They say that they're trying to go for a buddy cop spin, and I also suspect that Nomi will be the first non sexual female buddy of Bond's - she might even fill in a sort of Felix role.

    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    Given Phoebe Waller Bridge was brought onboard to re-write the female characters, you would hope that she cleverer that just reverting to type.

    I'm very worried about PWB.

    Her writing is decent - it captures you, but her jokes and humor fall flat to me. At their worst, they are basically the female version of frat boy toilet humor. Especially if you watch Fleabag - the drama and her breakdown in the last few episodes is written fantastically but everything before is just dull sexual humor and laughing at cringe/awkwardness. Killing Eve is better by a small margin and the dynamic between the two leads has potential, but again the comedy is just boring to me - just 'look at this gender-based thing I experience wow! Isn't it funny?!'

    Sorry to fans of her, but I see her humor as a higher class female version of Adam Sandler humor; mostly based around sex, bodily functions and social failure.

    She was hired because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE more so than FLEABAG.

    I explained that I have the same gripes with Killing Eve as well, though.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,738
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I don't either. The casual fan or general moviegoer doesn't remember that Bond quits at the end of Spectre, which sets up the inevitable in NTTD with Nomi. YouTube and other social media is a cesspool regarding the whole idea about Nomi, stating that Fleming would be rolling in his grave, yadda yadda. I guarantee that those people has never even picked up a Bond novel. They're just pissed that certain male dominated franchises are going a more womanly direction, such as the Oceans reboot, Ghostbusters, Terminator etc.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    Posts: 134

    Nothing official yet. I do wanna at least get a box set of all the 25 films in 4K on one set and from then on just buy the new movies individually.

    That Bond 50 set is cool, but it’ll always feel incomplete because doesn’t have all of Craig’s films.

    God, imagine the cost though.
  • edited May 5 Posts: 4,302
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,738
    patb wrote: »
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.

    Die another day is prime for the former
  • Posts: 643
    I recall in some interview PWB mentioned researching into genetics and biological warfare, and making those concepts in the script more accessible, or something to that effect. So her involvement wasn't just fleshing out the female characters or humour-oriented.

    And the female rookie double-0 concept was reportedly present in the Boyle/Hodge story, so it looks like something EON wanted to do for a while. I forget, but in the Sony leaks, there may have also been a young female agent in some initial ideas for Spectre.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 5 Posts: 7,059
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007.

    I still don't see the issue. Bond is the hero of the films, even when he calls himself Sterling or Somerset or whatever he's still the same guy. 007 isn't a superhero name: it's not like a new character taking over as Batman or anything. That even happens sometimes and people don't get upset.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I think that's where most not 'in-the-know' people got pissed about. Of course we knew Nomi wasn't JAMES BOND, she just had the designation 007. But others didn't and as I said before with the botched way that people are trying for inclusivity nowadays people got spooked and ran with the rumor.

    I think that's more telling about the intelligence of these people than it is about films pushing for inclusivity: you can literally read comments under an article which explicitly says she's not playing Bond and they'll be complaining that they don't want a black, female Bond and they won't see the film :D These aren't geniuses.
    patb wrote: »
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.

    She writes good dialogue so I'm fairly hopeful about that.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,293
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.
    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time.

    It also makes me wonder if whether people would have been more accepting if Nomi was just a male role, and played by someone like Idris Elba. Would that be a cool parallel and interesting route for one film in the franchise like I see Nomi?

    His name is Felix Lieter.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 5 Posts: 4,340
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.
    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time.
    It also makes me wonder if whether people would have been more accepting if Nomi was just a male role, and played by someone like Idris Elba. Would that be a cool parallel and interesting route for one film in the franchise like I see Nomi?
    His name is Felix Leiter.
    ...but we're talking about someone taking over the 007 mantle, like you said yourself. The point I'm trying to explore is if it would be more "palatable" for those who dislike Nomi if the new 007 was a man? Would the apparent issue of her being a "stone in Bond's shoe" even be mentioned if that was the case?

    We'll never know the true answer, but it's an answer worth considering.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited May 5 Posts: 5,890
    @mtm there is just something that really touches a nerve in some fans about someone else being 007; it doesn’t mater if that person is Black, White, Asia, Male, Female...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,918
    If the new 007 was a white dude I’m 100% confident that those whining about Nomi would respond to that with “oh, that’s an interesting approach”. But because it’s a black female character suddenly it rubs them the wrong way because they’re easily triggered by “woke” stuff.

    At this rate, I hope it turns out to be a triple whammy with her being a lesbian that turns down Bond’s advances. We all saw how that small subset of Bond fans reacted to the mere insinuation that Craig Bond may have been bi-curious.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 496
    I'm fine with someone else being 007 regardless of whether it's a man or woman. It's something a bit different and might be interesting in to watch.
    James Bond is still James Bond regardless of the '00' status. Us Bond fans understand that, the general media don't seem to at times and it makes a good click bait headline.
    What does worry me a little though is how are/have the writers undone it (if indeed they have). What I mean is how does Bond get his '00' status back, presumably at the expense of Nomi losing it, without people getting upset about it. It will have to be quite skillfully done in story to avoid the "woman moves over for the 'proper' 007 to return" shit storm from happening.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 5 Posts: 4,340
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,293
    Denbigh wrote: »
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D

    To all intents and purposes they aren't wrong though, sadly.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Nigeria
    Posts: 3,719
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,293
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    No one would care.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 5 Posts: 4,340
    I mean it's definitely the role that's the "problem" to those triggered by her and the way she's being characterised. Again, the reason I have a problem with this, is that many roles have had that relationship with 007, but it seems because it's coming from a woman, and all these people have seen is her "undermine" him, it's somehow a problem.

    It's why I expressed interest in seeing the train scene with Vesper or a scene with Felix in Casino Royale isolated within a marketing campaign in the context of #MeToo and #BLM, to see how people would react.

    My theory is that it's not the filmmakers attempting to be woke, it's the context of "woke" surrounding new and interesting ideas that then clouds peoples judgement. In my opinion.
  • Posts: 398
    With regard to the directed energy attacks, this would be yet another example of Truth Being Stranger than Fiction. Going all the way back to DN, the story involved a non-national mastermind using rocket failures to get several countries suspicious of each other and angry with each other. In the present real world, a perpetrator could be one or more of any number of non-national organizations or persons. Perhaps not someone as dramatic as Safin, with as interesting a lair, of course...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 5 Posts: 7,059
    talos7 wrote: »
    @mtm there is just something that really touches a nerve in some fans about someone else being 007; it doesn’t mater if that person is Black, White, Asia, Male, Female...

    I'm not sure: the original script for Bond 15 had a 007 before Bond, as did the Forever And A Day book and I've never seen anyone react angrily to those ideas before. Plus Bond has had his licence to kill (and hence 007 number) taken away a couple of times in the films as well: again, I've not seen anyone react angrily to those things.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D

    I must admit, if they changed it to 'James Bond 007 Will Return' I wouldn't mind, because there's something nicely cheesy about that :)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,890
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    I agree 100%

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 706
    I really like Naomie Harris as Moneypenny, I hope we get a Bond/Moneypenny scene in NTTD. Naomie has a warm screen presence and an electric chemistry with Daniel, it would be a shame to waste it
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,890
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I really like Naomie Harris as Moneypenny, I hope we get a Bond/Moneypenny scene in NTTD. Naomie has a warm screen presence and an electric chemistry with Daniel, it would be a shame to waste it

    Yes, with a bit of healthy flirtation.

  • edited May 6 Posts: 541
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 5,890
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

  • edited May 6 Posts: 541
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.
    A very good point, Talos! You're not wrong.
    I suppose instead of shallow I really meant "cruel," because it seems cruel that Lynch would be judged more harshly than an actress who might be considered "prettier."
  • Posts: 5,752
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 11,246
    I remember watching Lynch on that GQ lie test video, and she was very likeable.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,340
    peter wrote: »
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!
    +1.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,918
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.
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