BOND 25 Theory...The End of Spectre in Bond's Mind?

I just saw this video which I will link, which describes how the end of Spectre was a bit unbelievable in terms of the entire Craig era of the Bond franchise. Is it possible that the end was a dream and Bond has lost his memory? Something along the lines of the end of the YOLT novel?

Would love to hear thoughts!

-ZH

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aB-uzhbrGWE

Comments

  • Posts: 140
    No. It wasn't a dream. It was real (as all adventures of 007). That's my thought.
  • edited October 9 Posts: 172
    The thing that separate bond with other films which I like so much is they never try to show flashbacks and it happened all in his dream crap like mission impossible.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache.
    Posts: 12,215
    It all sounds more like "Dream Season" of Dallas to me than it does James Bond. Bond should not use soap opera techniques! End of story.
  • anyoneanyone Scotland
    Posts: 10
    Don't want to try to sound self centred/grandiose/clever etc here but have done a ton of 'work' looking into the last two bond films and they are very very heavily weighted to the esoteric side of things. This drives these films almost entirely. The last act of spectre is definitely meant to be 100% symbolic and happening at different layers at same time. Yup, Bond is all there and not all there at the same time but he is going through the process of personal enlightenment (in the dark - coming out of the dark), achieving his 'spiritual life purpose' if you like. Which btw is not to be a polarised/slightly sociopathic 'asassin' working for the secret service! There's loads going on in the end sequence but Bond is not back drooling in that chair although a bit of him actually is!!!!!!!

    It may be the most intriguing ending to any film I've seen ever and at first I hated it cos I didn't initially get it and was grumpy - it felt like a cheap BBC episode production. Now its obvious it couldn't have gone any other way, they filmed that last act very skillfuly. The Guardian newspaper called it 'wilfully obtuse' and thats the only decent reference I've found so far anywhere even though they're not aware why its so 'obtuse'. So - prob all seems mysterious but the film's meant to be. I can share more if anyone's intrigued, and you ought to be (!) because thats exactly what the film-makers have done - sent us - the general public/humanity - a poser, a question, a conundrum to see and 'solve' if we can!!!!! Hats off to them, 11 out of 10. Purvis and Wade are a couple of phenomenal writers, they know exactly what they're doing. This is not a fan film theory or such like - its actually whats been put in this film, they know their stuff! And now I've got square eyes for watching it so much!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 3,613
    I'm intrigued. Lay it on me.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,346
    anyone wrote: »
    Don't want to try to sound self centred/grandiose/clever etc here but have done a ton of 'work' looking into the last two bond films and they are very very heavily weighted to the esoteric side of things. This drives these films almost entirely. The last act of spectre is definitely meant to be 100% symbolic and happening at different layers at same time. Yup, Bond is all there and not all there at the same time but he is going through the process of personal enlightenment (in the dark - coming out of the dark), achieving his 'spiritual life purpose' if you like. Which btw is not to be a polarised/slightly sociopathic 'asassin' working for the secret service! There's loads going on in the end sequence but Bond is not back drooling in that chair although a bit of him actually is!!!!!!!

    It may be the most intriguing ending to any film I've seen ever and at first I hated it cos I didn't initially get it and was grumpy - it felt like a cheap BBC episode production. Now its obvious it couldn't have gone any other way, they filmed that last act very skillfuly. The Guardian newspaper called it 'wilfully obtuse' and thats the only decent reference I've found so far anywhere even though they're not aware why its so 'obtuse'. So - prob all seems mysterious but the film's meant to be. I can share more if anyone's intrigued, and you ought to be (!) because thats exactly what the film-makers have done - sent us - the general public/humanity - a poser, a question, a conundrum to see and 'solve' if we can!!!!! Hats off to them, 11 out of 10. Purvis and Wade are a couple of phenomenal writers, they know exactly what they're doing. This is not a fan film theory or such like - its actually whats been put in this film, they know their stuff! And now I've got square eyes for watching it so much!

    ORIGINAL.jpg?format=1000w
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 2,870
    anyone wrote: »
    Don't want to try to sound self centred/grandiose/clever etc here but have done a ton of 'work' looking into the last two bond films and they are very very heavily weighted to the esoteric side of things. This drives these films almost entirely. The last act of spectre is definitely meant to be 100% symbolic and happening at different layers at same time. Yup, Bond is all there and not all there at the same time but he is going through the process of personal enlightenment (in the dark - coming out of the dark), achieving his 'spiritual life purpose' if you like. Which btw is not to be a polarised/slightly sociopathic 'asassin' working for the secret service! There's loads going on in the end sequence but Bond is not back drooling in that chair although a bit of him actually is!!!!!!!

    It may be the most intriguing ending to any film I've seen ever and at first I hated it cos I didn't initially get it and was grumpy - it felt like a cheap BBC episode production. Now its obvious it couldn't have gone any other way, they filmed that last act very skillfuly. The Guardian newspaper called it 'wilfully obtuse' and thats the only decent reference I've found so far anywhere even though they're not aware why its so 'obtuse'. So - prob all seems mysterious but the film's meant to be. I can share more if anyone's intrigued, and you ought to be (!) because thats exactly what the film-makers have done - sent us - the general public/humanity - a poser, a question, a conundrum to see and 'solve' if we can!!!!! Hats off to them, 11 out of 10. Purvis and Wade are a couple of phenomenal writers, they know exactly what they're doing. This is not a fan film theory or such like - its actually whats been put in this film, they know their stuff! And now I've got square eyes for watching it so much!

    I'll smoke what you're smoking.
  • Posts: 10,203
    Is this the Bobby Ewing thread? Lol! I have always thought the Craig movies are set before the Connery era. With the torture scene in SP affecting Bonds mind, I think Bond 25 will continue the theme of Blofeld being wiped from his memory......etc.
  • anyoneanyone Scotland
    Posts: 10
    Heck, I asked for this! Thats a pretty good picture there, I'm not very 'sassy' so if its someone famous I don't know who it is! I don't smoke funny stuff it doesn't agree but ya the old mind can go into overdrive when it spots the signs, and this film is so full of em its breathtaking...cough.

    The end sequence is the start of the culmination of Bond's purpose as a soul on earth. YUP I said it - as a soul. But the personality doesn't always want the same things as the soul. So right from the bat this underpins the creation of Bond in the first place. The ultimate divided self trying to put itself back together again and get with the 'gig' it set itself in incarnating in the first place. Fleming seems to have created the character with esoteric features 'built-in'. Soul purpose, reincarnation, karma by implication, the will of self, the reality of a self generated life experience, etc etc a lot is there. Notice the first thing we see in this film is the statement 'the dead are alive' which is a reference to the immortal nature of the ever-incarnating soul ("I've been here before...the writing's on the wall")

    I'm going to be cheeky and leave a few fun questions at the end for anyone who wants to have 'fun' detective work with this movie if that doesn't sound too pompous, but they fairly get the mind thinking! I might run out of steam or ramble as I go so apologies in advance. I'm not used to writing these things, I normally just speak them.

    Bond's soul purpose on this earth is all about love. Pure and simple. Coping with a lack of it (childhood loss of parents) and the trauma that creates (why do you think so many Craig villians refer to him as broken goods of one kind or having internal wounds), and the hidden desire to then have love in his life as a result of these problems. Its even more deep than just that, but - to be healed through love. Sound yucky? Well thats how the soul urges. Its simple and honest, it just urges. The complicated bit is the personality, and Bond's is very complicated.

    The first question is who is Oberhauser? Bond villians are aspects of his own self. They are aspects of him, thats why they never actually try to kill him efficiently outright but instead put him through tests or horrifying situations. Fleming put clues in names. But Blofeld/Oberhauser is slightly different to the rest. Ober = Upper, hauser = house. Upperhouse, Bond is in his lower house. Oberhauser is actually Bond's Higher Self. (Incidently Fleming really took the p*** with the whole concept because the first villian le Chiffre means 'cipher' or code particularly a number code, cheeky what!!!!) Anyhow Oberhauser exists/intervenes directly to get his bloody wayward lower soul to get with the soul life choice gig instead of perpetrating endless repetitive life choices and behaviours. And by implication repetitive lives. So Oberhauser intervenes.

    There's loads more that get us to this point, I can cover what I've found some other time cos its a shame to do the punchline first and then work backwards but this is how its happening so....Bond's torture scene. The strange thing on the window/wall is a gecko. Whats it doing there?? Its a symbol and almost the whole last two Bond films are symbolically driven, though not always so obvious, they can tell you whats happening or even about to happen. The gecko symbolises regeneration, the natural cycle of life, reincarnation, rebirth and self protection. Because Bond has refused to get off the gig of being a polarised sociopathic womanising alcohol danger fuelled individual Oberhauser (the higher self) now directly intervenes to make inner change happen if it can. Bond had previous chances to change, but cannot let go of himself.

    Enter the drill and the fascinating dialogue. The dialogue is truly about where the soul and human experience is and starts that way. Well that rings true!! What else would Ober want to talk about. Go back and play the dvd with the subtitles on. He's now going to go where Bond 'is' - inside his head. The script is telling you symbollicaly where the action is - at the internal level because thats where the seat of the soul is. The drill represents Bond's upper self making internal 'adjustments' to Bond, and also doing it through a painful test - go through a life threatening experience to illuminate whats really important in life - LOVE!!!! I should prob write this better than I am right now but this is the crux of it. Bond passes the test - he'd recognise her anywhere he says to her. But its also his 'time' to do this. Another huge theme of the movie. Tempus fugit he says which originally meant that time gone by and not used is time permanently lost. Bond's window in time is up unless he seizes it. Notice he says the latin prase twice - thats for our benefit. Thats his realisation, and it looks like a personal realisation when he says it.

    Now - how does he get out of the fix - time. Thats what the watch represents. He's found the right 'time' to reset his life desires finally. The previous rest of the blurb about brothers and cuckoos - thats symbolic talk to show us JB and O are connected on the surface so we can get on that clue to the truth if we want. ('Its about you me and her' - remember Silva saying that? - surface connections to throw down breadcrumb connections to whats really going on underneath) But a film needs to have its surface story to work - HAH - just like life! Now from this point in this film Bond seemsa to be able to do super-Bond things. Like killing everyone and blowing the place up and taking out helicopter with hand gun etc etc. Bond has gone up a gear. Thats good - he has more purpose, thats maybe bad (?) - he has even more power than before? Note this is where people start complaining about the movie losing a real-like edge (myself included). Yeah well Bond's just been adjusted - so there.

    I'll need to continue another time, sorry I'm all Bonded-out for now. But try these questions for size

    1 In view of O not being of this earth do you now know why he doesn't wear socks?

    2 What falls on Bond after he takes his big 'bottoms up' shot at the start of the movie, also whats on it????????? ha ha its all there

    3 Spot the deliberate lighting mistake when C tells Bond he's going to take MI6 into the 'light' in M's room

    4 Why is Bond holding a light fitting when he lands on a sofa - whats on the walls to the left and right of him at that moment

    5 Count how many physical lights and light fittings are actually in that first room he goes into with that woman at the beginning of the film. Really - isn't that overkill for a room of that size! What the freak does that mean?

    I think I'm just having crazy fun now, Ya I don't need weed. I'll go more into the film ending if you like, but I'm a slow typer and had long day at work But really look at these fun questions, these guys know exactly what they're doing with Bond in Skyfall and Spectre. They're bloomin genuises. Its great.

    Thanks, hope its woth it, I'm not mad.

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