The Truth Behind Spectre and The Quantum Connection.

Hello,
Evening my Fellow Agents. Today's Discussion is concerning the Recent Events that have spanned Craig's Bond for the Past Years.
I've been wanting to get down to the truth of the Connection Between the Quantum and Spectre Organizations. Being that 007 started out Taking on Le Chieffe and Successfully taking on Quantum and Greene Afterward. The Films State that Quantum was tied to Spectre but what was the True Role of Quantum.....
Was it A precursor or Subsidiary. I say Subsidiary being that Mr. Greene was in charge but Mr. White was a Liason and Overseer of it all. Going into Skyfall which was to me less interesting if it were a stand alone film because Silva's connections were way to big to operate solo as alot of people have pointed out. But pay close attention in Skyfall where Silva is always highlighting Bonds Childhood Trauma which we find out was caused by Franz Overhauser. He points it out in the first meeting and then again when he doesn't say a word and stares at Bonds Parents grave and Laughs as if he knows something we don't.
So why would an Ex Operative care about that when his Main Goal was to Kill M?
What was the Importance of showing us that Scene? It is because Silva has had previous encounters with Franz Oberhauser and a discussion was definitley had between the 2. Possibly Concerning a Common Enemy which was James and how they're 2 goals intertwined. Franz gave Resources to Silva in Exchange Silva would Murder M which he wanted to do anyway and Kill Or Wound James. Makes Perfect Sense. And Makes Skyfall so much more awesome. In Craig's Era there is no Stand Alone Film all of them are Connected. With the Exception of Bloodstone 007 the PS3 exclusive Game which served as a Canon Story that took place After Quantum of Solace and Before Skyfall. That Being Said in Quantum Of Solace Bond Stops the Terria Project and Greene is killed for leaked information about Quantum. But who would've ordered the hit? Surely not Any of the Quantum Members after being exposed by Bond at the Opera. Moshi sarov and Guy Haines definitely wouldn't make a move like that it would compromise they're respective positions. This order came from the top... Way above Quantum and they're Water Extortion Schemes. Fran's had Greene Murdered as All Spectre Members do when they fail.
Being that Quantum of Solace was a Short Story. I believe that is how the Movie should be viewed as a short story... A conclusion to Casino Royale which it truly was. After all it was still Year 1 in Bonds Career so he was Young.
Now I Want to Get into more Detail involving Skyfall and Spectre.
The List of Agents Being persued was used to expose MI6 to Compromise them and make them seem unreliable and outdated. Now that is the Overall Objective not for Silva because his Motive is Revenge on M. The Objective was that of Spectre's who would've been working with Max Denbe head of joint security. Perfect timing wouldn't you say after MI6 being exposed and beat down why not have it scrapped and replace with A Global intelligence Agency. So not only was Silva Equipped with tools to do both objectives but buy the time it was done Spectre was already putting the Next Phase into Place.
I'll continue my Exposition In a later Post.
I'd love to hear from you Guys.

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Comments

  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    Also note that in the meeting Between Fran's and Silva not only was Silva supplied to Kill M but in exchange he would Hack MI6 and ruin the image of The 00 section to make room for the next phase of CNS and Max Denbe
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Costa Mucho
    Posts: 41,940
    Eric_007 wrote: »
    Also note that in the meeting Between Fran's and Silva not only was Silva supplied to Kill M but in exchange he would Hack MI6 and ruin the image of The 00 section to make room for the next phase of CNS and Max Denbe

    Not sure they planned so much ahead, but you make some good points in the OP.
  • Quantum organization: Merely a "front" set up by SPECTRE with which to entice/ensnare certain politicians, industrialists, etc. who would balk at joining SPECTRE.

    Some VIPs would have no problem working for an organization that uses shady/less than legal methods to ensure profitable business deals and attain geopolitical goals that the "little people" (and legal ethicists) just wouldn't understand (or approve of)... Those same business tycoons and politicians would NOT, however, join an organization which is heavily involved in, for example, sex trafficking-- which the Craig-era SPECTRE most definitely is.

    I daresay that the majority of the VIPs whom Bond uncovers as Quantum members at the Bregenz opera in QOS probably don't even know that SPECTRE (and Blofeld) exists.

    Silva: Gun-for-hire, financed by Blofeld to do the dirty deeds he commits in SKYFALL... with the added bonus that he wants personal revenge against M and MI6. Where do you think those mercenaries (and the attack helicopter) which feature in the climax of SF came from? Blofeld.

    It's all really that simple.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @CraterGuns Very Simply Put. The same thing I said about Silva definitely hired by Blofeld. And the Quantum VIPs you could be right about that, I'd just had that theory bouncing in my head for the longest because the film only showed Greene being taken down but they never said anything else about the rest of the organization. That actually could fit. Because Mr. White indeed said that he'd followed Blofeld as far as he could so I guess Mr. white did up a level from Quantum to Spectre.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @Thunderfinger Thanks and Maybe they didn't plan that far ahead. I made that point about the meeting to say that Spectre Just wasn't Retconned or anything. Alot of people think so but initially Barbera B. Said that there was originally supposed to be a Part 3 concerning Quantum which would be a Trilogy but then they hired Mendes and took it a different route but they kept the same agenda which was to keep exploring Bonds Origin which Skyfall did so excellently and then brought it back around with Spectre. Those Hints that Silva gave.the nod and laugh at Bonds parents grave... I was like nahh bro this guy knows something we don't about what happened to them.
  • I don't think Quantum as an organisation were linked to Spectre at all. In the books SPECTRE agents are usually higher ups in criminal organisations (the tongs, mafia, etc). So I think we can assume it's the same in the films. White and Green were Blofeld's men inside Quantum just as he'd have agents in other criminal organisations, agencies, etc.

    It obviously wasn't planned in advance (if only they'd had the balls to commit to QoS fully as a title and keep the organisation nameless then there'd have been no retcon needed) but it works imo. I think the real issue lies with Le Chiffre and Silva being Spectre agents.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Costa Mucho
    Posts: 41,940
    SPECTRE agent?
    xqos_032_280.jpg.pagespeed.ic.C-9sleaazD.jpg
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @Thunderfinger lol I don't think so. I think he was just a pawn in the game. Assistant to Mr. Greene. Not a Big Player.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    edited September 2017 Posts: 26
    @thelivingroyale True Indeed. Because in Spectre they did show pictures of a young Mr. White with Madeline throughout her high school and college years. So that confirms your statement about White Being an Inside man for Spectre in Quantum for sure. As for Le Cheiffe I don't think he was a Quantum Member but however I do think that he was associated with Quantum and Spectre because White killed him because he failed to get the Money. He was just a high roller who finally lost a big bet. Silva was Contracted by Spectre. Given the events that took place at Station H in Hong Kong way before Bond came along Blofeld supplied Silva with the means to dismantle MI6 officially and also to fulfill his Personal Beef with M so it was a Win Win for both of them. He mentioned Bonds Childhood alot even smiled at his dead parents grave. Why? Because Blofeld must've told him that.why else would he care about that particular part of Bond when he's after M.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    Correction on this discussion I was wrong. Bloodstone 007 did end with a connection to Spectre as Nichole Hunter MI6s contact in Monaco told Bond "That this was all a test to prove her Loyalty to the man behind it all to the organization.... To a higher Power"then she is shot by a UAV Drone leaving Bond with no Answers. Now As Noted Bloodstone takes place a few years After Quantum of Solace story wise so we see Spectre's Influence even before Skyfall or Spectre
  • Posts: 13,314
    I always understood Quantum to be a proto-SPECTRE like RAHIR and TARTAR were in the novels, but I read that the production wanted Quantum to be a subsidiary/flag of SPECTRE which I'd be cool with.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @Ludovico I knew it where did you read that?because I be needing confirmation about these things. I always had a feeling that Quantum was exactly that
  • Posts: 13,314
    Eric_007 wrote: »
    @Ludovico I knew it where did you read that?because I be needing confirmation about these things. I always had a feeling that Quantum was exactly that

    How much of a word of God it is I don't know but I've read it on various websites.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @Ludovico well we can rest assured that Quantum was a Branch of Spectre being that they focused more on Obtaining Land and Finances which is only on of the many Things Spectre Is in.
  • Posts: 13,314
    Well either way it was retconned. Quantum only existed because they didn't have the rights to SPECTRE at the time.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    edited September 2017 Posts: 26
    @Ludovico @thelivingroyale @Thunderfinger And on this note this has been a great discussion. Glad to hear everyone's view point on it and have heard some excellent Awnsers. I've come to the final conclusion that Quantum was just a Branch/Subsidary as its main focus at the time was trying to Obtain Land and Resources from a Country. They weren't juggling multiple programs as opposed to Spectre who while debriefing had confirmed that they were working Sex Trafficking,Pharmisuticals and all ecological drugs. All while waiting to have they're hands on the World Wide Surviallence Program 9 Eyes to counter act Intelligence Agencies. They had Fingers in Many Pies and I doubt One little Span of Water from Bolivia was They're biggest concern and I know good and well Vesper Didn't sacrifice and die for that. Sam Mendes stated that Once he did Skyfall and started the story he felt obligsted to finish it in what he called Part 2 of Bonds Childhood Story. So officially Spectre is Part 2 of Bonds Later Years and Encounter with the Organization. Retcon or Not the Story fits together perfectly and isn't forced to try to make sense it all falls in place. The Signs have all pointed to Blofeld even Silva. Now we're it goes from here we don't know yet. All we know is that Bond is Happy somewhere With Madeline and Bond 25 is on its way. The Craig Era is coming to an end soon. Peace my fellow Agents

    From Eric_007
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 714
    I would have preferred if SPECTRE eliminated the leader (or one of the leaders) of Quantum and that's how Bond meets Mr. White and the reason Blofeld wanted him dead. Would be the better narrative and still work with the Mr. White story arch in SP (my favourite part of SP).

    Quantum was a cool organization - I still like the little "Q" pins - a wonderful nod to the Spectre rings in FRWL/TB/YOLT yet less silly by today's standards.

    There is one thing (I did not find a proper thread to ask so feel free to move the question): Why for god's sake did they use that octopus symbol? I mean - the organization's name is SPECTRE and if I am not mistaken (english is not my native language) this is a "haunting ghost" so to speak and that was the symbol on the FRWL/TB/YOLT rings. Why the octopus? I found that extremely silly and the title sequence was soo ... disturbing. Please help me out to understand this nonsense (LOL) :-)

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,808
    Good readings. The whole Craig era could have been tied together better if they were able to obtain the rights to the Spectre name earlier.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    edited September 2017 Posts: 26
    @SeanCraig Very good question indeed. Thats one thing I've never took time to ponder myself. Why the Octopus? i just always knew from an early what that symbol meant and i never questioned it for some odd reason. But hey thats Spectre for you, fingers in many pies all over the world. QUANTUM was amazing too i loved that division so called of Spectre. I'll will do research on that and start a discussion about it to see what comes up.
    @Last_Rat_Standing To be Honest i was like 12 or 13 when i first saw Quantum of Solace
    then i watched Casino Royale then proceeded to Watch every bond film from Connery to Brosnan and i noticed a familiar pattern. that there are 2 types of Bond. I call it classic bond and Modern bond. Classic Bond would be considered Sean,Lazenby because they took on Missions that were all related to SPECTRE I believe with the exception of Goldfinger. Modern Bond is Considered Moore,Bronson because they were all Solo Missions with Singular Villains. But when i got to Craig i didn't know what to classify him as because of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. I had no knowledge then of any other organization Bond encountered until then. Then i was lost when Skyfall came out because i didn't know whether it was a solo story or was it connected to Quantum and the first 2. Spectre cleared that up i had no clue they didn't have rights to SPECTRE.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Good readings. The whole Craig era could have been tied together better if they were able to obtain the rights to the Spectre name earlier.

    People keep saying this, but that's not true at all.

    The SPECTRE organisation was handled bad in SPECTRE because of several reasons, not because it was called Quantum.

    Quantum or SPECTRE are just names.
  • Eric_007Eric_007 Mobile
    Posts: 26
    @CraterGuns @thelivingroyale @SeanCraig found further proof that Spectre was already there from the beginning. in casino royale the henchmen shooting at bond in outside the before sunken building had A ring on his finger, why would a bond henchmen with no connection to anyone literally black ops assasins ,have a ring on. he aint married i can tell you that much. SPECTRE
  • Posts: 310
    I think it makes perfect sense that EON was considering one-off films after Skyfall. If they didn't acquire the SPECTRE rights, I don't think they'd consider reviving Quantum either. Just another mission, perhaps tracking down Sciarra for M without linking it to Spectre.
    Had Skyfall been lightly hinting at a larger power behind Silva, I could have bought the fact that he was in league with Blofeld. But there is none. The helicopter and mercenaries could be explained by Silva's connections. He could acquire wealth with ease through his expert "hacking" skills to pay for everything, even blackmail political/military figures.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,499
    Personally, I like to think that after the events of QOS, Greene's confession crippled Quantum. This allowed Spectre to take over what was left. Mr. White was friends with Blofeld and spared. He became Blofeld's right hand man. Oh and Silva has nothing to do with it.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,499
    Honestly, I wish they either stuck with Quantum or went back to standalone stories.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Eric_007 wrote: »
    @CraterGuns @thelivingroyale @SeanCraig found further proof that Spectre was already there from the beginning. in casino royale the henchmen shooting at bond in outside the before sunken building had A ring on his finger, why would a bond henchmen with no connection to anyone literally black ops assasins ,have a ring on. he aint married i can tell you that much. SPECTRE

    Im sorry but that's ridiculous. 'Proof'? Wouldn't even be laughed out of court as it's so thin it would never come to court in the first place.

    Anyone who thinks EON planned all this from the start needs to ask themselves 'So what would they have done had they not acquired the rights to SPECTRE in late 2013?'

    Say the Mcclory estate had said 'We ain't selling to EON under any circumstances' then what happens to this grand story arc they have had in place since 06 and hinges on the reveal of Blofeld?

    Also given what a shambles SP was I can just about let them off that it was a hamfisted retcon job. The thought that they might have had this whole thing planned for close on a decade would expose them as being shockingly inept on a Tory-party-Brexit-negotiations level.
  • Posts: 19,339
    For me SF will always be a stand-alone film,as will Silva.

    As @Gettler rightly pointed out here : The helicopter and mercenaries could be explained by Silva's connections. He could acquire wealth with ease through his expert "hacking" skills to pay for everything, even blackmail political/military figures.

    I look at SF as I look at GF...both are stand-alone ,non SPECTRE or QUANTUM films,for both Connery and Craig's 3rd outings.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 14,947
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I always understood Quantum to be a proto-SPECTRE like RAHIR and TARTAR were in the novels, but I read that the production wanted Quantum to be a subsidiary/flag of SPECTRE which I'd be cool with.

    That's how I view it too funnily enough. It's all there in Ian Fleming's chapters on Blofeld in Thunderball (1961).
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 12,488
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I always understood Quantum to be a proto-SPECTRE like RAHIR and TARTAR were in the novels, but I read that the production wanted Quantum to be a subsidiary/flag of SPECTRE which I'd be cool with.

    I think it was Purvis and Wade who said that, something about Quantum being Spectre's UK branch? But that's overly complicated imo. To me it's simple. Spectre have people everywhere. White and Green were there "tentacles" inside Quantum just as they probably have agents in every other criminal organisation. Proto Spectre works too but I think with how they were exposed by the end of QoS it makes more sense that Blofeld wasn't directly involved, since he managed to remain hidden for the best part of a decade afterwards. Quantum were destroyed by Bond and Camille but there are a few loose ends, M looks into it and eventually traces a couple of the members back to a larger organisation (probably found them through White, Sciarro was meant to kill him so that could have been where she got his name).

    It's still a bit contrived since Quantum were so similar in set up but I think it works since their overall goals were different (from the meeting it seems Spectre is more outright organised crime, Quantum were all about shadowy politics and business deals). No need for the organisations to actually be tied together outside of those men.

    I just wish they hadn't named Quantum. It's only Green who names them at the end and to me that just seemed tacked on because of the backlash about the title. I would have much rather kept them as a nameless organisation until they got the rights back but to be fair I guess they didn't know that'd definitely happen.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 676
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    There is one thing (I did not find a proper thread to ask so feel free to move the question): Why for god's sake did they use that octopus symbol? I mean - the organization's name is SPECTRE and if I am not mistaken (english is not my native language) this is a "haunting ghost" so to speak and that was the symbol on the FRWL/TB/YOLT rings. Why the octopus? I found that extremely silly and the title sequence was soo ... disturbing. Please help me out to understand this nonsense (LOL) :-)
    There's no good explanation really, it was a symbol they used in the '60s movies and then brought back. It does look like an octopus (more than a ghost IMO):

    SPECTRE_rings_comparision.png

    I suppose one can find a meaning in the symbol by saying SPECTRE has many tentacles, it's far-reaching, it has a strong grip on people, etc. but that's not a metaphor that pops up anywhere except in the title sequence (which I actually like a lot) and the print on Madeleine's dress at Blofeld's HQ. If they really had to bring back the octopus symbol, it was a missed opportunity not to make more of it in the film. Hell I would have loved to see Blofeld literally own a pet octopus. It's a Bond movie, not everything has to be subtle metaphor. ;)
  • RareJamesBondFanRareJamesBondFan Touch it. You can touch it if you want.
    Posts: 132
    Finally, this clears things up once and for good

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