Skyfall/Spectre Poll

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Comments

  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    Disliked both, though the first hour or so of Skyfall was decent, it fell of a cliff when Silva showed up.

    Same for me, more or less. But I also dislike SF's first hour; only the PTS is great
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,312
    Prefer to watch Skyfall over Spectre most of the time. Skyfall has so much going for it (PTS, title song, main titles, villain, sacrificial lamb, cinematography, M-centered plot) that is just hard to beat.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,786
    Thought SF was ok, though nothing particularly great, SP for me is bottom two.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited June 2021 Posts: 1,006
    Skyfall is looking to go down as the next great polarizing Bond along with Thunderball. You see it in top 5’s as well as bottom 5’s.

    I’m a big fan of Skyfall (ranked 3 for me), while Spectre is at 10.
  • Posts: 1,595
    Skyfall is not remotely polarizing outside of extremely niche fan communities such as this one. As someone who generally follows along with Bond fans on some social media sites, SF is one of the least polarizing films in the series and almost always gets represented in the top 10.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    Nov 2015: Loved Skyfall, hated Spectre
    July 2021: Love Skyfall, like Spectre
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,397
    TripAces wrote: »
    Nov 2015: Loved Skyfall, hated Spectre
    July 2021: Love Skyfall, like Spectre

    What changed your mind?
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,512
    Both have issues but both are judged too harshly by fans, to my mind. I can forgive plot holes and mistakes if the film is entertaining and both are entertaining films.
    Skyfall is one of my favourites of the series and Spectre is probably not far off my top 10
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,416
    Skyfall is somewhere in my my top 10, probably in the 6-8 range. Spectre is probably somewhere in the 12-15 range. It just needed a different director.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2021 Posts: 8,025
    Skyfall is not remotely polarizing outside of extremely niche fan communities such as this one. As someone who generally follows along with Bond fans on some social media sites, SF is one of the least polarizing films in the series and almost always gets represented in the top 10.

    I think the pushback in some fan communities towards SF has to do with how massively popular it is among general audiences that there's a desire to take it down a peg, which is not at all dissimilar with GF and how fans and audiences treat that differently.

    Then there's the opposite with OHMSS, considered the crown jewel of the franchise among fans but pretty much 99.9% dismissed by general audiences just because it doesn't feature a beloved Bond actor.


    Anyway, as far as I feel, I adore SF and consider it top three material. SP is very middle of the road. I like parts of it a lot, but not as a whole.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Like both
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2021 Posts: 4,554
    TripAces wrote: »
    Nov 2015: Loved Skyfall, hated Spectre
    July 2021: Love Skyfall, like Spectre

    What changed your mind?

    Good question. I'm not sure, but the more I saw SP the more I found things to appreciate in it. I am still not a fan of the foster-brother angle, and the third act is a mess. But still, there is much to like here: the PTS, the Sciarra funeral scene, the clinic scenes (especially the "barteneder"), the entire Tangiers sequence, and the train fight. Newman takes a lot of flak on here, and though I think his SP score is not nearly as good as SF, there are some beautiful tracks in SP. The "Madeleine" theme is particularly haunting and beautiful, top notch.

    It should also be noted that our viewing of films does not occur in a vacuum. When I first saw SP, I was going through tough times. Two aunts and a best friend died in the weeks leading up to the premiere. I don't think that that had much to do with my disappointment in the SP, but years later, as I have looked back on that time and have now understood it as an important period of growth, SP factors in a little differently and more positively.
  • Skyfall is IMO the best in the series, with Casino Royale being it’s only real competition so it’s obvious where I stand on that one.

    Sprectre... I really do like it, but I think it’s hard for me to look at objectively. There’s this general air of wasted potential that hangs over the film and is difficult to shake. If it were in a vacuum I’d probably view it much more favourably, but from the general outline, cast, crew, etc. it has all the opportunities to be as good as Skyfall but it completely misses.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,499
    Upon first viewing Skyfall was a top ten entry…. In the past (almost) ten years, it punched its way up my rankings and I have to admit it knocked CR into number three.
    Skyfall sits at number two behind OHMSS.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,416
    Skyfall is IMO the best in the series, with Casino Royale being it’s only real competition so it’s obvious where I stand on that one.

    Sprectre... I really do like it, but I think it’s hard for me to look at objectively. There’s this general air of wasted potential that hangs over the film and is difficult to shake. If it were in a vacuum I’d probably view it much more favourably, but from the general outline, cast, crew, etc. it has all the opportunities to be as good as Skyfall but it completely misses.

    Mendes was a one off director. He never should have been back
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Mendes’ directing was fine. The problem was the script. Even if Campbell came back he wouldn’t have been able to save the film working with a script as undercooked as SP.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,416
    Mendes’ directing was fine. The problem was the script. Even if Campbell came back he wouldn’t have been able to save the film working with a script as undercooked as SP.

    I'm only going off what he stated how he exhausted all of his Bond creativity with SF and had nothing left for Spectre
  • I think it's both, frankly. Mendes probably shouldn't have come back (or at least not immediately), the script wasn't great and in fact the leaked bits of the 3rd act from the previous drafts and even John Logan's initial concept with Blofeld as an African warlord were so much more interesting than what we ended up getting. It just felt like all of the freshness and energy had was expended in Skyfall and it was exacerbated by the script and rushed production.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    Mendes’ directing was fine. The problem was the script. Even if Campbell came back he wouldn’t have been able to save the film working with a script as undercooked as SP.

    And Mendes knew it. He wanted to delay filming but EON wanted to push forward. The film wasn't ready yet.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,690
    Mendes’ directing was fine. The problem was the script. Even if Campbell came back he wouldn’t have been able to save the film working with a script as undercooked as SP.

    Given that there is absolutely nothing Campbell can do that Mendes can't, thats sort of true! He's not in the same class as Mendes at all. I'll never understand where the idea of Martin Campbell, Master Director comes from.

    I think Spectre did have a fresh concept: make a Bond movie. Since Dalton retired, we'd had Bond apologize for itself in Goldeneye, 90s action star Bond with machine guns in the later Brosnans, generic cop who doesn't play by the rules in Casino Royale... Spectre just goes for it: M's classic office, proper SPECTRE meeting and everything. Eye scar, crater base, it finally stopped being afraid of Austin Powers, to put it mildly!

    It's one of the reasons I was delighted that Danny Boyle stepped down from B25: I had zero interest in finding out what his novel "brilliant idea" was. Let's just make some Bond movies.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I only bring up Campbell because in this forum he seems to be brought up as a savior that “understood” Bond. He was fortunate to not be saddled with the situations that lead to production nightmares like TND.

    SP is certainly the most traditional Bond film of Craig’s run and I think that was the conceit that Mendes wanted run on so that it would be different from his first gig. For SF he was aiming to do something special with Bond for the 50th anniversary, whereas for SP he was indulging in the Bond tropes that tickled his inner childhood, albeit in a manner that was still consistent with Craig’s run.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,690
    I only bring up Campbell because in this forum he seems to be brought up as a savior that “understood” Bond. He was fortunate to not be saddled with the situations that lead to production nightmares like TND.

    "Fortunate" would be a great name for his memoir! :))

    Apart from the courage Spectre shows in proudly owning some dusty Bond tropes, it also marked a step away from some of the emotionally overwrought content of all the other post-LTK films. I'm almost certainly Spectre's biggest fan around here, but I admit to seeing the missed opportunities and occasional lack of engagement in terms of plot. MI6 being dismantled is a pretty big deal, but the movie doesn't really sell it as strongly as it could have. But for me, even these "missed opportunities" are something of a plus. It's nice not seeing Bond on the verge of some psychic apocalypse in this movie. He's not sniffing women's corpses or losing his mind and risking his job. I suspect Mendes, like most directors, would have loved to have the time to add two more scoops of gravitas, and I'm glad he didn't get it!

    Then again, I'm also of the belief that writer's strikes have generally been a blessing to the series, so I'm probably just weird.

  • Posts: 1,883
    Mendes’ directing was fine. The problem was the script. Even if Campbell came back he wouldn’t have been able to save the film working with a script as undercooked as SP.

    Given that there is absolutely nothing Campbell can do that Mendes can't, thats sort of true! He's not in the same class as Mendes at all. I'll never understand where the idea of Martin Campbell, Master Director comes from.

    I think Spectre did have a fresh concept: make a Bond movie. Since Dalton retired, we'd had Bond apologize for itself in Goldeneye, 90s action star Bond with machine guns in the later Brosnans, generic cop who doesn't play by the rules in Casino Royale... Spectre just goes for it: M's classic office, proper SPECTRE meeting and everything. Eye scar, crater base, it finally stopped being afraid of Austin Powers, to put it mildly!

    It's one of the reasons I was delighted that Danny Boyle stepped down from B25: I had zero interest in finding out what his novel "brilliant idea" was. Let's just make some Bond movies.

    I like this take. I've said for a while why can't we just go back to what attracted us to James Bond movies begin with and I've gotten responses bordering on the suck it up, it's the way movies are now variety as far as exploring the character's personal side.

    That said, SP doesn't exactly match or improve on any of the past tropes, at least as far as I'm concerned. There can be a blend of the serious and the traditional that makes it unique. Hoping NTTD reaches that.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,416
    I just watched/listened to the rejected Radiohead song for Spectre on YouTube that plays over the title sequence for the first time.

    Why they chose WOTW over that is beyond me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Radiohead’s “Man of War” would have been amazing.

    Their “Spectre” was kind of dull and plodding, not unlike what we got.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,690
    Radiohead’s “Man of War” would have been amazing.

    Their “Spectre” was kind of dull and plodding, not unlike what we got.

    I'll have to look up Man of War. I thought they were the same song....
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,689
    I just watched SPECTRE again tonight, I believe for only the third time: Once at a cinema when it came out, once when the Blu-ray came out, and now...more than five years later when I thought it's time to revisit.

    To make this not too long, I still think the main deficit is in this stupid foster brother tale pretending to bring the tribulations of the previous fims together. It just doesn't make any sense. They should have forgotten about Bloberhauser and find a different narative instead.

    Other than that, I was surprised (on the third try) that this is a solid and enjoyable action movie.

    I'd therefore say that while I hugely likr SKYFALL, which is in my top four and right behind FRWL, SP isn't as bad as I remember it, and would probably be ready to admit that I like that movie...albeit not near as much as the,b brilliant SKYFALL.
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