SPECTRE, most fun Bond adventure in decades?

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  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    I have to respectfully disagree with both of you. The whole rome car chase was atrocious. Very little action, and the old man in the fiat and the Frank Sinatra gag is something from the Roger Moore era. The whole scene was crafted around the idea of tying up quantum without dragging the audience into to much though of that, so they won't dare remember Quantum Of Solace. (gasp)

    Don't let my comment regarding my enjoyment of the line fool you, I find the overall chase to be a heavily, heavily overpriced bore. The whole Moneypenny call certainly doesn't help things, either. I do enjoy a certain shot here and there, but it's mostly thanks to the city looking beautiful at night and a few moments of good cinematography, and not so much the action on screen.

    I agree with this. Even if the film is flawed, the cinematography in this movie was top notch. So was the original score (and even some of the reused Cues from Skyfall). Those two elements in and of themselves can take a mediocre or average film and elevate up another level. But Craig himself also carries the film, and even though I didn't have the big issues with Spectre that others had, sometimes how a movie is packaged is more important than what is being showed. Imagine if the same director of Die Another Day directed Spectre! Even if the script and scenes were exactly the same, I don't think I would be singing it's praises as much as I'm doing now!
  • Getafix wrote: »
    shamanimal wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I have SP at #13 on my list..its entertaining ,even though the ending is meh (but most Bond film endings are meh ).

    Ha! I've always thought that. My favourite Brozza movie (TND) has a flat ending. I hate those 'kill the baddie at the end with a pithy quip' endings. Kudos to the Craig era that it happened only once (SF).

    It's why OHMSS is one of the best endings.

    I enjoyed SP better the second time I saw it. Much more enjoyable than SF for me. Several very nice scenes. For me it's better than SF in pretty much every area.

    It's amazing Getafix that a lot of people who liked Skyfall better actually find Spectre more entertaining and watchable (although it sounds liked Spectre more anyway). I think technically Skyfall excels more than Spectre in many aspects, but a lot of Bond fans were missing the more traditional feel of some of the earlier Bond films. I like these two films a lot for different reasons, and that's why there is room for both films in the Bond universe.
  • Why has Bond become so sluggish in recent years? Remember the snappy, breezy Bond films of the 70's and 80's? Its seems like ever since Brosnan took the role, each film there has always been something weighting the films down, preventing them from being the exciting action adventure thrillers they once were. Just like the films became too flamboyant at moments, now they have become too solemn, too grim. Was it really necessary to have a daughter witness the suicide of her father in order to demonstrate that Blofeld is evil? If not, then why is that in there? To me it seems like just as the Moore films gradually got more and more absurd, verging on self-parody, so has the Craig films become more and more self-serious and morose, to the point where it no longer serves any purpose. After a while it becomes noticeable even to the common viewer, and that's when EON have to act - NOW!

    Great points as well Mendes. Just as some here find Spectre too cartoonish, others feel there is still too much heavy handedness at times. I guess I like the film because they loosened things up a bit, at least relative to the other Craig films. But I can also see why you and others think it was still too dark. And I agree, the "its personal" storylines need to stop. Hopefully that will occur when a new Bond actor is named. But as long as Craig is around, you will probably get one more of these types of films. Unfortunately the "personal" films started in the Brosnan era with TWINE, and although not as well written during his era, all of these films have one common denominator being a certain two writers who have had their hand in the last six films. Like it or not, many people don't mind this as the box office numbers have been solid to great during this time. As I said, this style probably continues at least as long as Craig is around, if he comes back for another film.

  • Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.

    Well said Brady!
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 623
    I'll never understand the viewpoint that SP is a 'return to the lighter Bonds'. The whole film had a dark feel to me. There were a few more obvious silly bits, than before in the Craig era, like the Sinatra song, and the teddy-throw, but these are few and fleeting, and no more 'Moore' than the "he's in a hurry to get home" line in SF. Moonraker and Octopussy it certainly ain't. It's still easily in the same universe as Casino Royale and QoS (which was the most dour Bond film, ever).
    I think SP fails in not establishing the villain and his motives very well. I was reminded of the Devil May Care continuation novel, where M says "this is the worst villain we've come across" and the reader is expected to believe that without any emotional attachment or reason to think so.
    Another thing that irks me, is the fact that the SPECTRE acronym is never explained.
    But, all that said, I think it's a classy entry, and I enjoy it lots. Despite the QoS miss-step, I still think the Craig era has given us the strongest run of quality Bond films since the sixties.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.
    Brady, Lets be civil. You can respectfully disagree with me. But don't call my post laughable! Anyway, If you pay close attention to the film, you can see after Bond uses his ejector seat, they cut to a reaction shot from the street sweeper.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.
    Brady, Lets be civil. You can respectfully disagree with me. But don't call my post laughable! Anyway, If you pay close attention to the film, you can see after Bond uses his ejector seat, they cut to a reaction shot from the street sweeper.

    This is as civil as I can get at this point.

    I'm aware of the scene in question, and the shot, but again, it doesn't ring of a Moore film to me. There's no cartoonish reaction from the man beyond an awe-struck, frozen look, far removed from the crazy reactions extras gave in Moore's films that were way too overplayed. Of course when a man runs a gondola through a street and smashes into Parisian structures in a cut up car, you'll get people a little concerned, but I think the cut aways to extras got too out of hand after a while, much like the back projection of the 60s.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.
    Brady, Lets be civil. You can respectfully disagree with me. But don't call my post laughable! Anyway, If you pay close attention to the film, you can see after Bond uses his ejector seat, they cut to a reaction shot from the street sweeper.

    This is as civil as I can get at this point.

    I'm aware of the scene in question, and the shot, but again, it doesn't ring of a Moore film to me. There's no cartoonish reaction from the man beyond an awe-struck, frozen look, far removed from the crazy reactions extras gave in Moore's films that were way too overplayed. Of course when a man runs a gondola through a street and smashes into Parisian structures in a cut up car, you'll get people a little concerned, but I think the cut aways to extras got too out of hand after a while, much like the back projection of the 60s.
    Brady, my main concern with the Roger Moore Humor wasn't reactions from pedestrians, but the fat old man in a tiny car and frank Sinatra music playing to a loud "NOO" from Daniel Craig.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.
    Brady, Lets be civil. You can respectfully disagree with me. But don't call my post laughable! Anyway, If you pay close attention to the film, you can see after Bond uses his ejector seat, they cut to a reaction shot from the street sweeper.

    This is as civil as I can get at this point.

    I'm aware of the scene in question, and the shot, but again, it doesn't ring of a Moore film to me. There's no cartoonish reaction from the man beyond an awe-struck, frozen look, far removed from the crazy reactions extras gave in Moore's films that were way too overplayed. Of course when a man runs a gondola through a street and smashes into Parisian structures in a cut up car, you'll get people a little concerned, but I think the cut aways to extras got too out of hand after a while, much like the back projection of the 60s.
    Brady, my main concern with the Roger Moore Humor wasn't reactions from pedestrians, but the fat old man in a tiny car and frank Sinatra music playing to a loud "NOO" from Daniel Craig.

    As I said earlier, those moments feel far too normal to be Moore-esque. It doesn't really equate to Bond throwing a fish out of his submarine-car hybrid after coming out of the sea, or him playing tennis while in the middle of a chase in India, of all things. Moore type humor is the sort that makes me want to face-palm myself to death. I enjoyed the SP humor in contrast because it was closer to the Young films. But this is retreating old ground and I'm frankly sick of talking about it over and over.

    Also, as a Sinatra devotee I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the version of "New York, New York" used in the film is not his. Probably because the royalties to his estate were criminal.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I wouldn't say "in decades" but I will say it's the most fun of the Craig era of Bond films. All of his had the overall dark tone to them, especially QoS and SF. The Brosnan films were overall fun.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Laughable. If the Craig era had Moore humor, SP would've ended with Bond and Hinx battling to the death at Blofeld's Moroccan base, during which the latter would stop when he looked up and fell in love at first glance with one of Blofeld's lab assistants. We'd also have gotten random shots of pedestrians reacting to Bond doing random things that resembled stock footage.

    If any comparison had to be made, what we get is a retooled style of humor closest to Young's films, and that contention is heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not even the sofa fall and the vehicle Bond pushes with his Aston in Rome feel Moore-esque, because they're almost too normal for what you'd seen in his films.
    Brady, Lets be civil. You can respectfully disagree with me. But don't call my post laughable! Anyway, If you pay close attention to the film, you can see after Bond uses his ejector seat, they cut to a reaction shot from the street sweeper.

    This is as civil as I can get at this point.

    I'm aware of the scene in question, and the shot, but again, it doesn't ring of a Moore film to me. There's no cartoonish reaction from the man beyond an awe-struck, frozen look, far removed from the crazy reactions extras gave in Moore's films that were way too overplayed. Of course when a man runs a gondola through a street and smashes into Parisian structures in a cut up car, you'll get people a little concerned, but I think the cut aways to extras got too out of hand after a while, much like the back projection of the 60s.
    Brady, my main concern with the Roger Moore Humor wasn't reactions from pedestrians, but the fat old man in a tiny car and frank Sinatra music playing to a loud "NOO" from Daniel Craig.

    As I said earlier, those moments feel far too normal to be Moore-esque. It doesn't really equate to Bond throwing a fish out of his submarine-car hybrid after coming out of the sea, or him playing tennis while in the middle of a chase in India, of all things. Moore type humor is the sort that makes me want to face-palm myself to death. I enjoyed the SP humor in contrast because it was closer to the Young films. But this is retreating old ground and I'm frankly sick of talking about it over and over.

    Also, as a Sinatra devotee I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the version of "New York, New York" used in the film is not his. Probably because the royalties to his estate were criminal.

    With how much they sunk into that chase sequence, I'm shocked they used anything but Sinatra's version.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Why has Bond become so sluggish in recent years? Remember the snappy, breezy Bond films of the 70's and 80's? Its seems like ever since Brosnan took the role, each film there has always been something weighting the films down, preventing them from being the exciting action adventure thrillers they once were. Just like the films became too flamboyant at moments, now they have become too solemn, too grim. Was it really necessary to have a daughter witness the suicide of her father in order to demonstrate that Blofeld is evil? If not, then why is that in there? To me it seems like just as the Moore films gradually got more and more absurd, verging on self-parody, so has the Craig films become more and more self-serious and morose, to the point where it no longer serves any purpose. After a while it becomes noticeable even to the common viewer, and that's when EON have to act - NOW!

    I quite agree
  • Getafix wrote: »
    Why has Bond become so sluggish in recent years? Remember the snappy, breezy Bond films of the 70's and 80's? Its seems like ever since Brosnan took the role, each film there has always been something weighting the films down, preventing them from being the exciting action adventure thrillers they once were. Just like the films became too flamboyant at moments, now they have become too solemn, too grim. Was it really necessary to have a daughter witness the suicide of her father in order to demonstrate that Blofeld is evil? If not, then why is that in there? To me it seems like just as the Moore films gradually got more and more absurd, verging on self-parody, so has the Craig films become more and more self-serious and morose, to the point where it no longer serves any purpose. After a while it becomes noticeable even to the common viewer, and that's when EON have to act - NOW!

    I quite agree

    Perhaps splitting the difference here, it seems like the public has accepted Craig as Bond regardless of the tone of the stories. Spectre made a lot of money, as did the more serious Craig films, and the studio seems to recognize that.

    I prefer a tough Bond with some humor that does not undercut the story, like the Young films, or even some of the humor I saw in both CR and SF.

    The 'breezy' lighter Bonds of the 1970's just bore me, don't really feel like that's the character as written by Fleming or portrayed by Moore's predecessors. Again, to be specific, the Bonds should have some humor, but not the out-and-out comedy of everything Moore. And Bond should always be tough, and Moore and to a lesser degree Brosnan (after GE) kinda exemplify the more style/less tough Bond that gets parodied over and over.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I think the perfect amount of humor comes from the Brosnan era. He was a great blend of Connery and Moore. The humor wasn't out of place or cheesy. It fit in well enough, and in the right moments, that it just worked for the character.
    Some of the humor in CR, QoS, and SF was hard to detect sometimes. I couldn't tell if he was making a serious statement or a joke. The darker tone of those films threw me off on that subject. SPECTRE however, was lighter in tone and I got every joke that was made.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think the perfect amount of humor comes from the Brosnan era. He was a great blend of Connery and Moore. The humor wasn't out of place or cheesy. It fit in well enough, and in the right moments, that it just worked for the character.
    Some of the humor in CR, QoS, and SF was hard to detect sometimes. I couldn't tell if he was making a serious statement or a joke. The darker tone of those films threw me off on that subject. SPECTRE however, was lighter in tone and I got every joke that was made.

    That's the very definition of dry humor.

    No comment on the Brosnan statement; I can't bear to continue.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 40,372
    The humor works better when Brosnan is delivering it than Craig (for me, anyway), but to say the Brosnan era is devoid of out of place/cheesy comedy? Definitely not. Just look at a lot of the sexual dialogue in DAD, or that closing line in TWINE.

    "I thought Christmas only comes once a year" is the definition of cringe-worthy dialogue.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812

    That's the very definition of dry humor.

    lol I suppose it is but since this isn't a comedy it was hard to tell if it was even dry humor. Now that I've seen his movies over and over I now know what the jokes are.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DAD should be taught in film classes to show how scripts aren't to be written, on every level. It's ridiculous that Pierce got saddled with that, as nobody could've rescued that film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    DAD should be taught in film classes to show how scripts aren't to be written, on every level. It's ridiculous that Pierce got saddled with that, as nobody could've rescued that film.

    Bullshit, DAD should've nabbed a few Oscars, because it takes a genius to write dialogue such as "Yo mama!" or "Time to face gravity!"
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The humor works better when Brosnan is delivering it than Craig (for me, anyway), but to say the Brosnan era is devoid of out of place/cheesy comedy? Definitely not. Just look at a lot of the sexual dialogue in DAD, or that closing line in TWINE.

    "I thought Christmas only comes once a year" is the definition of cringe-worthy dialogue.

    I always forget about that line :)) everyone finds it cringe-worthy but I laugh every time he says it.
    And what I meant by cheesy, is pretty much the Moore era. It worked for his movies back then but it wouldn't today. I think the Brosnan era got it right for the modern day.
    I'm also only talking about Bond himself, not the characters around him. Like when M joins in on the sexual innuendo in TND, that was cringe-worthy. Also, the crap that Jinx spews out in DAD is bad... all of it.
  • I think GE is a good Bond movie with a good story.
    Pierce got saddled with three bad stories and bad directors after that.
  • Posts: 1,680
    The directors always get the blame but are just there to follow the template of the producers vision.

    How thats executed is on the director however.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 10,586
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Apted and Tamahorri are not bad directors, they have both done work that ranks among the best out there. They aren't such great Bond directors is the thing if it.

    The latter is a psychopath. That said, many great directors are.

    One think you can applaud the Brosnan era for is the amount of risks it took. Apted was selected due to the abundance of strong female leads in his films, which served undeniable importance with regards to Elektra. Tamahori was hired because of his pacing and brutality, after the producers saw Once We're Warriors. Unfortunately, they gave him far too much creative control over the project, which ended up morphing into largely ridiculous, CGI-infested product (though many positive aspects retained). When it came down to Apted, much of his career focused on documentary films, and in turn, when on to be an inexperienced action/thriller director
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    I still haven't seen it, unfortunately. But based on what I've heard of it, I can certainly understand Eon's ideology for hiring him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 40,372
    I really enjoyed Tamahori's 'The Devil's Double,' thought it was very well done and entertaining.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Tamahori did Along Came A Spider, and I quite enjoyed that.
  • Posts: 11,425
    A real shame Tamahori took the approach he did. Once Were Warriors was critically acclaimed - proper, serious filmmaking. And then he gets a big budget and just spews out total cr*p. I guess to be fair, that was the trajectory of the Brosnan era - it was never going to end well, was it?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    It did end well with 007 Everything or Nothing.
    asset.jpg
  • Posts: 11,425
    What a naff visual. Sums up the Brosnan era
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Getafix wrote: »
    What a naff visual. Sums up the Brosnan era
    I don't know about you but I always enjoyed jumping off of buildings in that game. It's pretty fun. Doesn't take itself too seriously.
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