Christoph Waltz as Blofeld - Hit or miss?

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  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Miss ..little conviction in Waltz's performance for me. I enjoyed the film and this was more of an annoyance.

    The script didn't help though. Still I'm a big fan of the film. Enjoyed a great deal in spite of faults.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    I thought, he was the weak link, if there was any. Compared to Bardem he was close to non existent. He was just THERE. His constant smiling was just that. A smile, not menacing, nothing. Out of place. I never saw him harden, never saw the hatred in his eyes. Never mind how good or bad the material was, he did nothing with it as could be expected from an Oscar winner. Very disappointing.

    I think he was far more menacing than Bardem. His smile is simply nasty. He rarely raise his voice, always contained. And if you have not seen hatred in his eyes... Well, I think you need to re-read the description Fleming does of Blofeld and which I pasted in an earlier post.

    Exactly. Real authority comes when you don't have to shout or scream. Blofeld's power and influence was extremely prominent throughout the movie and conveyed mainly by the exposition to varying degrees from others. The quiet menace in comparison to the raging or OTT menace is far more startling, unnerving creepy.
  • Posts: 7,507
    After my second viewing yesterday I find it even more baffling how any one could not warm to this version of Blofeld and Waltz' performance!
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    jobo wrote: »
    After my second viewing yesterday I find it even more baffling how any one could not warm to this version of Blofeld and Waltz' performance!

    Enjoyed his portrayal. My only concern now is that MGW won't be able to get him back again to do an encore. Really didn't like the switching of Blofeld actors than occurred in the 60s.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    jobo wrote: »
    After my second viewing yesterday I find it even more baffling how any one could not warm to this version of Blofeld and Waltz' performance!

    Enjoyed his portrayal. My only concern now is that MGW won't be able to get him back again to do an encore. Really didn't like the switching of Blofeld actors than occurred in the 60s.
    I share your sentiment here, and I'm optimistic he will return after his media appearances this week. On Seth Meyers he stated the character, "is a work in progress," and on Jimmy Fallon responded to his end of the film appearance as, "looking toward the future."
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited November 2015 Posts: 538
    Mansfield wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    After my second viewing yesterday I find it even more baffling how any one could not warm to this version of Blofeld and Waltz' performance!

    Enjoyed his portrayal. My only concern now is that MGW won't be able to get him back again to do an encore. Really didn't like the switching of Blofeld actors than occurred in the 60s.
    I share your sentiment here, and I'm optimistic he will return after his media appearances this week. On Seth Meyers he stated the character, "is a work in progress," and on Jimmy Fallon responded to his end of the film appearance as, "looking toward the future."

    That's good to hear. Great really. Always a risk with a big-time actor like Waltz that he'll just move on. Someone of his … caliber … might even keep Craig around as well. While we're talking about returnees, I'd take Swann as well. Leading ladies have been disposable in the series (M, MoneyPenny and Ms. Anders excluded). It would be nice to see a real connection develop.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Let's just say my problems with the film certainly didn't revolve around his acting. I've always enjoyed him in everything I've seen him in and this was no exception. Once I heard he was the villain, I knew what to expect. I wasn't disappointed that he didn't live up to so and so's portrayal. So a hit for me, thank you very much.
  • "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.
  • Posts: 7,507
    No need for spoiler tags by now, @Gustav ;)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    I would have loved for there to have been a dinner scene, building up a polite turmoil before the torturing began.
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 137
    What´s wrong with Blofeld being without socks? You know, they´re in the middle of a desert. I´d be without socks, too :))

    Waltz´s Blofeld is so magnificent. Indeed maybe the closest version of Fleming´s ESB. And yes, Bond and Swann arriving to the lair, an immediate Dr No-vibe. Definitely.

    There was so much little details to enjoy in SP.
  • Posts: 15,041
    JNO wrote: »
    What´s wrong with Blofeld being without socks? You know, they´re in the middle of a desert. I´d be without socks, too :))

    Waltz´s Blofeld is so magnificent. Indeed maybe the closest version of Fleming´s ESB. And yes, Bond and Swann arriving to the lair, an immediate Dr No-vibe. Definitely.

    There was so much little details to enjoy in SP.

    I agree about the DN references and Waltz being closest to Fleming's Blofeld.
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    So not disappointed that Scott was not Blofeld?; -) I told you it was going to be Jekyll and Hyde/Dracula twist.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    JNO wrote: »
    What´s wrong with Blofeld being without socks?

    He probably smoked them.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    doubleoego wrote: »
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    I would have loved for there to have been a dinner scene, building up a polite turmoil before the torturing began.

    Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing. Who knows, maybe they did film such a scene and it was cut out.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    I would have loved for there to have been a dinner scene, building up a polite turmoil before the torturing began.

    Well, there was this beautiful entrance inside Blofeld's 'comet-room'. Loved it. How Blofeld starting to explain everything about this precious, perhaps most expensive stone in the world ever. Reminded me of Dr. No explaining about this huge glass window that made the fish look so big, or Silva's rat tale.

    And then this MI6-building turned into a weird variant of Scaramanga's funhouse. Loved it.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Waltz is good with what he's given, but I just can't see him as a hit because of this foster brother thing. I didn't think that bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld was a good idea in the first place, but this is just beyond ridiculous.

    There were terrible flaws in Bond films before, but I think this is absolutely the worst decision in the James Bond history. I really wish I wasn't feeling this way, but this is such a huge, huge disappointment for me. Bond's foster brother was jealous because his father loved James more than him, so he killed his father, created the worlds biggest crime syndicate, all the while trying to make Bond's life miserable. This sounds like a soap opera plot to me.

    Apparently, I'm in the minority here as no one else sees this as utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, this can't be undone, so unless they ditch this story altogether (which is highly unlikely), my anticipation of the next Bond movie is at it's lowest point. Which is a shame, really, because I like Daniel Craig, CR was a fantastic movie, SF was excellent, even QoS is a fine film. I'm not saying everything in SPECTRE was bad, there are things in it that I like, but this casts a shadow on the entire film.

    I 100% agree with this.
  • Posts: 188
    Oh, definitely HIT!
    The fact that the insanity wasn't immediately visible made it all the more realistic and menacing when it was slowly revealed. He starts out seemingly normal, even unassuming, and then it goes to quirky/eccentric (socks, meteor, cuckoo) until it's finally revealed that he is a certifyable psychopath who killed his own father out of jealousy and feels perfectly justified in that.
    The fact that he was not a cartoon villain, but the kind of person you might meet in real life and who you would only recognize as a psychopath when it's too late creeps me out.
  • Waltz was excellent with what he had to work with though Bardem was a better villian in SF. My only criticism is I felt he really could have given a grander delivery to "the name I now go by is Ernst Stavro Blofeld" but overall a hit, just a little unfortunate Bardem was so good in SF.
  • Posts: 15,041
    roko wrote: »
    Oh, definitely HIT!
    The fact that the insanity wasn't immediately visible made it all the more realistic and menacing when it was slowly revealed. He starts out seemingly normal, even unassuming, and then it goes to quirky/eccentric (socks, meteor, cuckoo) until it's finally revealed that he is a certifyable psychopath who killed his own father out of jealousy and feels perfectly justified in that.
    The fact that he was not a cartoon villain, but the kind of person you might meet in real life and who you would only recognize as a psychopath when it's too late creeps me out.

    That is the little detail that made him far more sinister than any other villain so far and so darn brilliant: not only did Blofeld murder his own father, but he considers it was the right think to do. As in legitimate and moral.
  • Blofeld shouldn't smile so much. Waltz is the Koskov of Blofelds even though he does some truly fiendish things.
  • dragonsky wrote: »
    ^ I keep seeing great things for Craig in SPECTRE. I mean..I liked Craig...but am I the only one feeling that Craig felt...idk..tired? in SPECTRE..sort of like..Connery in YOLT I guess. I don't know if you know what I'm trying to say but that's how I felt...I'll probably enjoy Craig more the 2nd time I see the movie but I thought he had better showings in other movies.

    Perhaps not quite tired, but definitely very relaxed. One could view this insouciance as classic Bondian sang froid or as a critical absence of intensity. I'm not sure where I come down on that one yet.

  • Posts: 15,041
    Blofeld shouldn't smile so much. Waltz is the Koskov of Blofelds even though he does some truly fiendish things.

    But how does he smile! It's a cold smile, not a buffonish smile. And unlike Koskov or indeed Gray's Blofeld there is nothing comedic about him. He's sometimes an amiable villain, sometimes ironic but never a clown. If anything Silva was more of a sinister clown.
  • If Bond had shot
    Blofeld at the end, given that the 00 section (and thus their 'Licence to kill') was disbanded. Could he have been charged with murder?
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld shouldn't smile so much. Waltz is the Koskov of Blofelds even though he does some truly fiendish things.

    But how does he smile! It's a cold smile, not a buffonish smile. And unlike Koskov or indeed Gray's Blofeld there is nothing comedic about him. He's sometimes an amiable villain, sometimes ironic but never a clown. If anything Silva was more of a sinister clown.

    Sorry, Ludo, but after one viewing Walz's Blofeld completely lacks the requisite menace and intimidation factor. I actually thought Denbigh was the more compelling and unsettling villain. Dominic Greene too, while we're about it.

  • The backstory is totally contrived.

    In theory, the notion of using Bond's adoptive brother as the chief villain sounds kinda plausible. However, it would need to be cleverly snitched into the plot of the film and provide the characters with sufficient agency. When the trailers started to suggest that this was the road that Mendes was going down, I initially expected the film really to be a very rich Cain-vs-Abel type story of Bond having to kill his brother. Something with attempts at grandeur and pathos. Interestingly, Oberhauser seems like a bit of an afterthought. Despite his lack of development in the final film, it sorta works. Though it's still underdeveloped.

    I understand what Mendes was trying to do: he's attempting to tie in Blofeld and Spectre (Bond's archenemey) into the creation myth. In this film it is Bond who creates Blofeld. It was Bond's appearance in Oberhauser's life which created a divide between Franz and his father, which led to him murdering his dad and assuming the role of "Blofeld". Therefore, Bond created his own archenemy; Vesper and M's death are his fault. In turn, Blofeld has been a "voyeur" in Bond's life ever since destroying everything Bond believes and loves.

    Furthermore, giving Blofeld and Bond a past is a nod to their shared history before the franchise reboot.

    It all should sound rather workable. Whether SP successfully works this idea to the hilt or merely grazes at it is something further viewings will determine. However, I want more! I need Bond and Blofeld to go head to head in the next film. I want to really explore that childhood connection. I want him to escape custody and kill Madeline before hiding out in Japan. Give us a proper YOLT!

    Also if people want to see a rather large spoiler image from the film, click the link (Make sure you see the film first!!!!):

    As for Waltz: He's underused and ends up giving the same performance he always give. I think he just wasn't given enough material despite being ideal for the part (if not a little too perfect). He's fine, but I want to see more more menace next time out (he's definitely coming back with or without Craig). I also loved his delivery of "Ernst Stavro Blofeld". Very Germanic.
  • Posts: 15,041
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld shouldn't smile so much. Waltz is the Koskov of Blofelds even though he does some truly fiendish things.

    But how does he smile! It's a cold smile, not a buffonish smile. And unlike Koskov or indeed Gray's Blofeld there is nothing comedic about him. He's sometimes an amiable villain, sometimes ironic but never a clown. If anything Silva was more of a sinister clown.

    Sorry, Ludo, but after one viewing Walz's Blofeld completely lacks the requisite menace and intimidation factor. I actually thought Denbigh was the more compelling and unsettling villain. Dominic Greene too, while we're about it.

    I strongly disagree especially about Denbigh who comes off as a scheming sleazy eel but not nearly as menacing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld shouldn't smile so much. Waltz is the Koskov of Blofelds even though he does some truly fiendish things.

    But how does he smile! It's a cold smile, not a buffonish smile. And unlike Koskov or indeed Gray's Blofeld there is nothing comedic about him. He's sometimes an amiable villain, sometimes ironic but never a clown. If anything Silva was more of a sinister clown.

    Sorry, Ludo, but after one viewing Walz's Blofeld completely lacks the requisite menace and intimidation factor. I actually thought Denbigh was the more compelling and unsettling villain. Dominic Greene too, while we're about it.

    I strongly disagree especially about Denbigh who comes off as a scheming sleazy eel but not nearly as menacing.

    Totally agree. Denbigh was exactly what I expected him to be and Scott executed it excellently.
  • Waltz is good with what he's given, but I just can't see him as a hit because of this foster brother thing. I didn't think that bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld was a good idea in the first place, but this is just beyond ridiculous.

    There were terrible flaws in Bond films before, but I think this is absolutely the worst decision in the James Bond history. I really wish I wasn't feeling this way, but this is such a huge, huge disappointment for me. Bond's foster brother was jealous because his father loved James more than him, so he killed his father, created the worlds biggest crime syndicate, all the while trying to make Bond's life miserable. This sounds like a soap opera plot to me.

    Apparently, I'm in the minority here as no one else sees this as utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, this can't be undone, so unless they ditch this story altogether (which is highly unlikely), my anticipation of the next Bond movie is at it's lowest point. Which is a shame, really, because I like Daniel Craig, CR was a fantastic movie, SF was excellent, even QoS is a fine film. I'm not saying everything in SPECTRE was bad, there are things in it that I like, but this casts a shadow on the entire film.

    Beforehand I was quite skeptical about this as well. The whole "foster brother thing".

    But after having seen the film, I think you put way way too much focus on the "brother" aspect, without the "foster".

    As I understood correctly, both Hannes Oberhauser and Franz Oberhauser were presumed dead after the skiing accident. James Bond always thought that. So there's nothing contrived about that. Moreover, "SPECTRE" did not even elaborate about the relationship between Bond and Oberhauser when they were kids.

    Secondly, for me, being a foster brother, is nothing more than a fact based on paperwork and official document. Even I had a foster father, just in case my parents would die when I was aged 16 or less (a kid). in Holland it's a perfectly normal construction.

    So for me this construction felt way less contrived than, let's say, filming scenes of Bond and Oberhauser at young age. A construction that was done in "Batman Begins".

    And like Vesper said in "Casino Royale": "So you were looked after by the grace of someone else's charity" (=Hannes Oberhauser).

    One last thing, I was afraid that there wouldn't be a clear and believable explanation for Oberhauser turning into Blofeld. But I forgot one important thing. Like Oberhauser said: "I am Ernst Stavro Blofeld. I took the names from my mother's family bloodline". A kind of behaviour that reminded me of Elektra King and how she flushed down her dad's heritage down the toilet out of revenge.

    To summarize everything: I think it was a wonderful idea to bring back Blofeld in this particular way. It worked. And now it's time for all those Bond-hating reviewers to actually READ Ian Fleming's Blofeld trilogy and indulge in the larger-than-life appearances of the man. "SPECTRE" rules. Ian Fleming would have loved this film.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Waltz is good with what he's given, but I just can't see him as a hit because of this foster brother thing. I didn't think that bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld was a good idea in the first place, but this is just beyond ridiculous.

    There were terrible flaws in Bond films before, but I think this is absolutely the worst decision in the James Bond history. I really wish I wasn't feeling this way, but this is such a huge, huge disappointment for me. Bond's foster brother was jealous because his father loved James more than him, so he killed his father, created the worlds biggest crime syndicate, all the while trying to make Bond's life miserable. This sounds like a soap opera plot to me.

    Apparently, I'm in the minority here as no one else sees this as utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, this can't be undone, so unless they ditch this story altogether (which is highly unlikely), my anticipation of the next Bond movie is at it's lowest point. Which is a shame, really, because I like Daniel Craig, CR was a fantastic movie, SF was excellent, even QoS is a fine film. I'm not saying everything in SPECTRE was bad, there are things in it that I like, but this casts a shadow on the entire film.

    Beforehand I was quite skeptical about this as well. The whole "foster brother thing".

    But after having seen the film, I think you put way way too much focus on the "brother" aspect, without the "foster".

    As I understood correctly, both Hannes Oberhauser and Franz Oberhauser were presumed dead after the skiing accident. James Bond always thought that. So there's nothing contrived about that. Moreover, "SPECTRE" did not even elaborate about the relationship between Bond and Oberhauser when they were kids.

    Secondly, for me, being a foster brother, is nothing more than a fact based on paperwork and official document. Even I had a foster father, just in case my parents would die when I was aged 16 or less (a kid). in Holland it's a perfectly normal construction.

    So for me this construction felt way less contrived than, let's say, filming scenes of Bond and Oberhauser at young age. A construction that was done in "Batman Begins".

    And like Vesper said in "Casino Royale": "So you were looked after by the grace of someone else's charity" (=Hannes Oberhauser).

    One last thing, I was afraid that there wouldn't be a clear and believable explanation for Oberhauser turning into Blofeld. But I forgot one important thing. Like Oberhauser said: "I am Ernst Stavro Blofeld. I took the names from my mother's family bloodline". A kind of behaviour that reminded me of Elektra King and how she flushed down her dad's heritage down the toilet out of revenge.

    To summarize everything: I think it was a wonderful idea to bring back Blofeld in this particular way. It worked. And now it's time for all those Bond-hating reviewers to actually READ Ian Fleming's Blofeld trilogy and indulge in the larger-than-life appearances of the man. "SPECTRE" rules. Ian Fleming would have loved this film.

    Agreed. Some people don't seem to be able to grasp the subtleties of the brother angle. Up to them, I guess. It's very easy to hate it if you want to.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    I would have loved for there to have been a dinner scene, building up a polite turmoil before the torturing began.

    Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing. Who knows, maybe they did film such a scene and it was cut out.

    Either way it's a shame it didn't appear in the film. Dinner with the villain in Bond films have always made for riveting viewing, the constant one upmanship veiled with a calm hostility while remaining classy.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    "Cuckoo!!!"

    I think Oberhauser
    Blofeld
    was a "HIT". Especially the sequences in his lair in Morocco were exquisite. Reminded me of Bond & Honey arriving in Dr No's lair.

    I would have loved for there to have been a dinner scene, building up a polite turmoil before the torturing began.

    Well, there was this beautiful entrance inside Blofeld's 'comet-room'. Loved it. How Blofeld starting to explain everything about this precious, perhaps most expensive stone in the world ever. Reminded me of Dr. No explaining about this huge glass window that made the fish look so big, or Silva's rat tale.

    Yes, such memorable entrances that create a lasting impact. In fact when Blofeld is concealed in the dark and we hear his voice encouraging Bond and Swann to touch it (the meteor) the first thing I thought of was hearing Dr.No speak for the first time when Dent goes to visit him and ends up collecting the tarantula.

    SP is a marvellous film and it's disappointing that it's being unfairly attacked and not being appreciated enough. I'm grateful I'm lucky enough to enjoy the movie and have been entertained thoroughly each of the 4 times I've seen it.

    I think Craig and Waltz will be back and I hope that we get in new writers to give us a cracking script that addresses the legitimate criticisms SP's incurring.
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