SPECTRE: Official Critics Review Topic (accumulative topic, NO SPOILERS, just links)

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    The film is being buried on Rotten Tomatoes. It's got the worse rating than QOS!

    It's bizarre! OK check this out.

    QOS percentage is 65. Spectre is 61. So according to RT, QOS is the "better" movie.

    But then notice that QOS gets an overall 6.1/10 and Spectre gets 6.5. Wait, so Spectre IS better? Shouldn't that translate to 61% vs 65%?

    Click on Top critics and you see QOS drops to 40% and Spectre rises to 71. So now Spectre is 31% better?!

    Absurd.

    The fresh/rotten ratio is 61%
    The average critic rating is 6.5
    The average "top critic" rating is 67%

    So it's quite consistent if you ask me.
    Furthermore the "top critic" rating can be omitted as it is highly subjective to decide who is or is not a top critic.

    In any case, my initial fear has become true that the ratings will drop, it's a downwards spiral now.

    In my opinion the critics should give their age. I'm very certain most of the bad critics are young people that have grown up to CR QOS and SF and detest anything resembling Brosnan or Moore style. And Spectre has a lot of those.
  • Posts: 3,336
    They choose to count like 50 reviews from other countries, and now the rest 200ish reviews are American. In other words the americans control "rotten tomatoes".
  • 60% right now: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spectre_2015/

    Every aspect of this film.gets criticised....and is basically always connected with a bit of previous negative news surrounding the production of "SPECTRE".

    Some of the narrative from recent reviews:
    --> "Daniel Craig as Bond is bland in this film, and perhaps he should quit after this"....basically referring to Craig's remarks in the press that he doesn't give a 'shit' about playing Bond. I think it enforced the negative narrative that kicked in with the SonyLeaks.
    --> "The writing, especially in the 2nd half, is all over the place. You now understand why they did so many rewrites.".....basically referring to that damned draft screenplay from the SonyLeaks.
    --> "Those action sequences.....we've all seen it before. The new standard now for action is 'Fast & Furious' and 'Ethan Hunt'...not Bond."....okay, so let me set things straight? It's all.....unoriginal shit? It's all boring and CGI-porn...even worse than "Furious 7"?
    --> "Those disgusting octopus-porn main title sequences.....Bond is still stuck in the 1950's with this kind of extreme sexism."......by jolly, you're basically, in hindsight, destroying all those elements that have made Bond big over the past 53 years?
    --> "The acting in this film completely disappoints.....if it's Craig, or Waltz, or Seydoux...they all portray empty shells.".....Yes, "Furious 7" by those comparisons was an Oscar-heavy drama. For fuck sake.
    --> "All this globetrotting, those beautiful costumes, they make me sick, because they are all dress-up for a very weak Bond film.".....How can you say this....if that has always been the pivotal quality of the franchise.

    I am so sorry, but recent reviews.......they are basically indirectly saying: "Bond is dead. Bye". The James Bond franchise doesn't deserve this. I really have a feeling all these damned SonyLeaks, in hindsight, did create a negative narrative and really lowered a lot of sympathy for the franchise, for the Bond producers, and for Daniel Craig. And I will be even more curious what I will think of the film tomorrow.

    Sorry, 60%? Really, in Holland, here in Spain, in the UK they loved the film. Okay, the reviews would never be that strong as those for "Skyfall" and "Casino Royale". But I at LEAST expected a "Certified Fresh" rating of 78% to 86%. A bit like.........how the goodwill for "The Dark Knight" helped the reviews for "The Dark Knight Rises".

    But 60%? This must feel like a blow for Daniel Craig as well :-(.
  • Posts: 485
    They choose to count like 50 reviews from other countries, and now the rest 200ish reviews are American. In other words the americans control "rotten tomatoes".

    "You say tomato, I say tomahto!"
  • Posts: 485
    But 60%? This must feel like a blow for Daniel Craig as well :-(.

    To paraphrase the actor I'd like to think he doesn't give a shit!

    Is he over in the US for any promo?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    In the end the BO decides the fate of SP.
    If it makes a billion and something, the rating can be 30%, it doesn't matter.

    But if it doesn't hit the billion by a large margin, Spectre is in serious trouble to become Craig's DAD, DAF or AVTAK.

    After what I've experienced today though, I'm pretty sure Spectre will make the billion easy.
    Really everybody I was talking to this evening told me they found Spectre to be much better than Skyfall!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited November 2015 Posts: 5,131
    I respect all US Bond fans on here but the average American's taste with regards to Bond. ......mmmmm.
  • Cowley wrote: »
    But 60%? This must feel like a blow for Daniel Craig as well :-(.

    To paraphrase the actor I'd like to think he doesn't give a shit!

    Is he over in the US for any promo?

    I'm sorry.......actors are also in real-life good actors. Do you REALLY believe Daniel Craig doesn't give a shit? Do you really believe Daniel Craig doesn't give a shit when certain colleagues on set tell him "Hey Daniel, did you know that Amy Pascal from Sony wants Idris Elba to take over from you?" ?

    Off course you do. If during EVER interview you're being asked about how you think about another actor, INSTEAD of receiving questions about your own portrayal, then sooner or looter you become a loose canon, a 'George Lazenby 2.0'. But off course you start uttering remarks like "I'd rather slash my wrists than playing Bond again".

    One should not take things out of perspective. And Daniel Craig is well-known for his honest opinion...and his 'street talk' during interviews. But every interview I've seen so far.....made me all feel a bit uncomfortable. The happiness from previous Bond productions was not really present when I heard Daniel Craig talking.

    It all saddens me how much fucked up shit those damned SonyLeaks have caused during production of "SPECTRE". And to be honest? I DO care. I loved Craig's previous three outings as Bond. I feel immensely sad about how certain reviewers talk about Daniel Craig.

    You know, with "Quantum Of Solace" I fully accepted the rather lacklustre reviews for that film. But if even this review is completely slamming down Sam Mendes, then I'm starting to think......no way. And the worst thing of it all is that in hindsight even "Skyfall" gets reviewed again, with far worse critiques!:
    http://www.npr.org/2015/11/05/453959502/spectre-pleads-the-case-for-bonds-relevance-in-the-drone-age?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=movies

    UNdeserved!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited November 2015 Posts: 5,131
    I'm sure DC does give a shit about negative press. But Elba as Bond....ha ha....I'm sure he takes this exactly as it is....A joke!
  • Posts: 7,493
    In the end the BO decides the fate of SP.
    If it makes a billion and something, the rating can be 30%, it doesn't matter.

    But if it doesn't hit the billion by a large margin, Spectre is in serious trouble to become Craig's DAD, DAF or AVTAK.

    After what I've experienced today though, I'm pretty sure Spectre will make the billion easy.
    Really everybody I was talking to this evening told me they found Spectre to be much better than Skyfall!


    It is pretty bizarre to see Spectre in company with those films. The difference in the quality of the acting and production is just ridiculous!
  • Posts: 485
    Of course it would be hurtful for him if he read them but he also said in interviews can't afford to pay attention to them and besides I hardly think he's sat at a computer refreshing the RT site hoping the percentage goes up.

    I also don't notice many reviews slating him. That Observer review describes the Bond series as interminable in quite a disparaging manner. Let's face it the US seems to be putting the boot into Bond itself rather than SPECTRE specifically.

    Craig, Mendes and EON will decide their future from the box office take. Will it break even, will the profit be enough to justify another big budget follow up etc.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I'm sure £24m from SF and SP softens the blow.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Well my fellow Bond fans I've purchased my ticket for a preview showing.

    I'm also stopping by the bookstore in hopes of purchasing James Bond #1 Vargr.

    I know I will enjoy.

    Bittersweet a bit since first Bond film without my dad especially since Craig made one he probably would have liked.

    (He saw and liked SF but he was very sick at the time..)

    Anyway sorry ...but that's the difference between Bond and MI ...there's no sentimentality with MI ..no history. And I really don't like Bourne.
  • In the end the BO decides the fate of SP.
    If it makes a billion and something, the rating can be 30%, it doesn't matter.

    But if it doesn't hit the billion by a large margin, Spectre is in serious trouble to become Craig's DAD, DAF or AVTAK.

    After what I've experienced today though, I'm pretty sure Spectre will make the billion easy.
    Really everybody I was talking to this evening told me they found Spectre to be much better than Skyfall!

    It does matter:
    http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/05/box-office-preview-spectre-peanuts-movie

    With a theater count of 3,927, and a production budget of +$300 Million, you can not just say "Ooowh, "SPECTRE" will probably open with a weekend of $70-$75 Million. That's simply disappointing. It means the movie in the USA won't have legs to at least show longevity. It also means that, despite the profits, the average turn-over will be quite disappointing. Take into account the opening weekend of "Quantum Of Solace", which was $68 Million, and look at the price inflation of tickets, then an opening weekend of $70-$75 Million would, at least within the confinements of the offices of Gary Barber, Michael Lynton, Barbara Broccoli & Michael Wilson, would be a disappointment.


    BUT....I'm ending on an optimistic note. It will open better this weekend than some very conservative predictions of $70-$75 Million. Soaring past the $80 Million must be possible. But like I said, I predicted before (@BondJamesBond007 too ;-) ) I will be SO SO SO wrong with my previous predictions.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Cowley wrote: »
    Craig, Mendes and EON will decide their future from the box office take. Will it break even, will the profit be enough to justify another big budget follow up etc.

    I agree, the money spent can be seen on the screen in Spectre.

    Imagine that kind of budget for already good movies like GoldenEye, The Spy Who Loved Me or Licence To Kill.

    Spectre is by far, by far! the best Bond movie ever when it comes to production quality.
    Alone the PTS is unbelievable if you think about it. Imagine what kind of logistics nightmare that must have been to get everything right.

    I hope it will make more than a billion and Bond 25 will get another 300 million budget.
    And I'm eating my own words now, because I was criticising EON for that budget a lot. To my own defense, that opinion resulted from QOS which was insanely expensive as well and you don't see it on the screen.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Eon usually does better when not on top.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    deleted. Wrong thread
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 1,310
    I gotta say this 60% on RT (right now anyway) is an incredibly shocking number. I wasn't expecting anything in the 90s, but at the moment Spectre is nearly "rotten!" The RT score isn't going to affect how I view the film, but I am quite surprised nonetheless.
  • It does matter:
    http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/05/box-office-preview-spectre-peanuts-movie

    With a theater count of 3,927, and a production budget of +$300 Million, you can not just say "Ooowh, "SPECTRE" will probably open with a weekend of $70-$75 Million. That's simply disappointing. It means the movie in the USA won't have legs to at least show longevity. It also means that, despite the profits, the average turn-over will be quite disappointing. Take into account the opening weekend of "Quantum Of Solace", which was $68 Million, and look at the price inflation of tickets, then an opening weekend of $70-$75 Million would, at least within the confinements of the offices of Gary Barber, Michael Lynton, Barbara Broccoli & Michael Wilson, would be a disappointment.

    Well they are coming in on the very low end. Boxofficemojo predicts 82.5, Boxoffice.com predicts 85. Fandango.com presales are "trending closely" to Skyfall.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    BUT....I'm ending on an optimistic note. It will open better this weekend than some very conservative predictions of $70-$75 Million. Soaring past the $80 Million must be possible. But like I said, I predicted before (@BondJamesBond007 too ;-) ) I will be SO SO SO wrong with my previous predictions.

    $95m - $105m stateside this weekend. Forget these lowly predictions

    I don't think so anymore.....:
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4119&p=.htm

    And it's the most positive new projection I've seen so far. Previously I thought it would well soar past the $115 Million. How wrong I could have been.

    With such an impressive theater count increase (from 3,500 for "SF" to 3,927 for "SP") you simply need to outperform the $88.3 Million opening weekend of "Skyfall". It seems that even that is not going to happen. And although this will result in good profits, financial analysts at MGM/Sony/EON will say that the turnover will be way more disappointing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Trust me.
  • Posts: 485
    Cowley wrote: »
    Craig, Mendes and EON will decide their future from the box office take. Will it break even, will the profit be enough to justify another big budget follow up etc.

    I agree, the money spent can be seen on the screen in Spectre.

    Imagine that kind of budget for already good movies like GoldenEye, The Spy Who Loved Me or Licence To Kill.

    Spectre is by far, by far! the best Bond movie ever when it comes to production quality.
    Alone the PTS is unbelievable if you think about it. Imagine what kind of logistics nightmare that must have been to get everything right.

    I hope it will make more than a billion and Bond 25 will get another 300 million budget.
    And I'm eating my own words now, because I was criticising EON for that budget a lot. To my own defense, that opinion resulted from QOS which was insanely expensive as well and you don't see it on the screen.

    My turn to repay the favour and agree with you! Yes you certainly do see all the budget of SPECTRE up on the screen. Babs and her father before her said they always strove for that but as you say with QOS it wasn't there on the screen. With SPECTRE you have the huge scope of the old Bond films.

    I love the shot when Sciarra runs with the helicopter above him and then it cuts to the square and you see just how massive the crowd is. Staggering.

    I'm pleased you liked SPECTRE @BondJasonBond006 and now appreciate why some of us in the UK were scratching our heads at some of the bad reviews.

    It's not a perfect Bond film but it's well made and hugely enjoyable. If this had been Craig's debut film I ironically think the US press may have lapped it up more.
  • Posts: 1,092
    What's extremely frustrating about many of these reviews are the way RT is counting some of them as Rotten that are not. 9 of the 54 Rotten are either 2.5/4 or even 3/5! That's supposed to be Fresh. Then there are Fresh ones that are counted that way that are 3/5. WTH?
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Another review:
    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/entertainment/movies-news-reviews/mr-movie/article43224756.html
    Even worse, though he’s the original secret agent hero, Bond movies now look pretty much like the worn Mission: Impossible movies and the Bourne films. It’s all formula, and it’s as predicable as the actions of the villains who threaten the world in each movie.

    Bond — these days — while still action-packed and fun, has become an old hat, and it’s hard not to disagree with British government officials who want to shut down the program.

    I mean, I don't mind reading bad reviews. Especially not if the movie really isn't good. No worries, no hard feelings. But writings like the one above....kind of...hurts me as a Bond fan. The writer basically, indirectly says: Bond is obsolete. Please quite with the franchise. I really find that...hard to swallow...as a Bond fan :-(.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Another review:
    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/entertainment/movies-news-reviews/mr-movie/article43224756.html
    Even worse, though he’s the original secret agent hero, Bond movies now look pretty much like the worn Mission: Impossible movies and the Bourne films. It’s all formula, and it’s as predicable as the actions of the villains who threaten the world in each movie.

    Bond — these days — while still action-packed and fun, has become an old hat, and it’s hard not to disagree with British government officials who want to shut down the program.

    I mean, I don't mind reading bad reviews. Especially not if the movie really isn't good. No worries, no hard feelings. But writings like the one above....kind of...hurts me as a Bond fan. The writer basically, indirectly says: Bond is obsolete. Please quite with the franchise. I really find that...hard to swallow...as a Bond fan :-(.

    In all fairness, and without having seen SP, I think that (what the critic is referring to above) is what SF was able to so deftly avoid (for the masses) with its plot and approach. It was rather fresh for a spy film imho and prevented direct comparisons to other franchises. It took a few curves here and there and that made it feel different from MI-GP.

    I hope SP can similarly differentiate from MI-RN tomorrow for me.
  • Posts: 485
    Very little of that review is about SP as there are criticisms going back to GF and OHMSS. Ridiculous.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Well I have my ticket to a 10pm (Chicago time) showing and still couldn't be more excited. The reviews don't bother me because they are all over the place. And some of my favorite films have mediocre reviews.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Well by my reckoning SP should of kicked off in its previews in North America (well on the East coast anyway)................so no need now to read anymore of those reviews...........its time to go to your multiplex, and enjoy film!
  • Another review:
    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/entertainment/movies-news-reviews/mr-movie/article43224756.html
    Even worse, though he’s the original secret agent hero, Bond movies now look pretty much like the worn Mission: Impossible movies and the Bourne films. It’s all formula, and it’s as predicable as the actions of the villains who threaten the world in each movie.

    Bond — these days — while still action-packed and fun, has become an old hat, and it’s hard not to disagree with British government officials who want to shut down the program.

    I mean, I don't mind reading bad reviews. Especially not if the movie really isn't good. No worries, no hard feelings. But writings like the one above....kind of...hurts me as a Bond fan. The writer basically, indirectly says: Bond is obsolete. Please quite with the franchise. I really find that...hard to swallow...as a Bond fan :-(.

    It's hard not to feel a bit hurt or insulted by some of these bad reviews, especially for people like us, who hold the Bond franchise so close to our hearts. But it's also important to remember that this is just the opinion of a FEW people and we can easily take a bunch of 5 star reviews for spectre and pick out quotes that praise the movie.

    I happen to quite enjoy Moonraker and TMWTGG, but I know there are TONS of people even on this here forum that consider both of those movies to be a steaming pile of shit. And that's fine, because at the end of the day all that matters is how YOU feel and whether you enjoy it or not. It's important not to let other peoples opinions get in the way of your own enjoyment.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Reviews written by nobodies. They've been doing this shit since the 60s and continually have their asses handed to them. Bond is going nowhere, much like their rather limited careers.
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