The Opera Scene - silent action sequence - like or loath ? (QOS)

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,951
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Ha its strange. I'm thinking mainly thinking of the fight they have after they fall through the skylight and the struggle the two have to grab the gun.

    Regarding the opera sequence, as I said earlier in the tread I prefer the opening shots to the fight itself.

    I find the PTS fight with Mitchell rather too much reliant on CGI to be honest. It could give the dire DAD a run for its money in that regard!
  • Posts: 19,339
    On the theme of CGI,it makes me laugh (in an ironic way) that the skydive scene in QoS ,including the pointless opening of the parachute 1 second before hitting the floor,rarely gets a mention,whereas i bet if that happened in a Brosnan Bond film it would be getting as much bad press as the Tsunami in DAD !!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,951
    barryt007 wrote: »
    On the theme of CGI,it makes me laugh (in an ironic way) that the skydive scene in QoS ,including the pointless opening of the parachute 1 second before hitting the floor,rarely gets a mention,whereas i bet if that happened in a Brosnan Bond film it would be getting as much bad press as the Tsunami in DAD !!

    Yes, the CGI used in QoS was shockingly bad and on a par with the worst of DAD. I thought that the Bond producers would have learned their lesson from DAD but obviously not! Still, despite all of that, QoS is in my Top 5 Bond films of all time.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Well,luckily it is helped out by quality acting and a good storyline,DAD had no escape route.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    On the theme of CGI,it makes me laugh (in an ironic way) that the skydive scene in QoS ,including the pointless opening of the parachute 1 second before hitting the floor,rarely gets a mention,whereas i bet if that happened in a Brosnan Bond film it would be getting as much bad press as the Tsunami in DAD !!

    Yes, the CGI used in QoS was shockingly bad and on a par with the worst of DAD. I thought that the Bond producers would have learned their lesson from DAD but obviously not! Still, despite all of that, QoS is in my Top 5 Bond films of all time.

    I agree that there is way too much CGI in QoS, but on a technical level I don't think it's as bad as the kite surfing in DAD. That said, any CGI is really too much CGI in my view.

    Someone was telling me the other day that the cranes chase in CR is mainly shot for real with wires etc. It does look quite CGI to me, but apparently not.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I've never actually thought the crane chase was CGI.
    To me it looks like stuntwork with close-ups as it used to be in the old days and to be fair,apart from the odd CGI moments,the Craig Bond films are at least using proper stuntwork again,which is promising.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes, but I think the power of stuntwork is undermined when you combine it with CGI. It becomes hard to conceptually separate the two things. Although there has been some great stunt work in the Craig era, in my mind it is all down to CGI.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The thing is its a difficult mindset to get out of due to the Brosnan era .

    Whenever we see anything now,we are dubious that its not CGI !!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes, although funnily enough, DAD aside, I don't remember the CGI beingthat noticeable in the Brosnan era. They had more of a cheap made for TV look about them.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think the emphasis on CG was only really pushed by Tamahori in DAD. With the exception of the freefall in GE there isn't all that much (noticable) CG in Brosnan's films. One of the reasons I love the tank chase (despite its OTT nature) is because its all done for real.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I dislike the Brosnan films for other reasons - not the CGI.

    I always hated the tank chase - daft and not tthe kind of thing I expect Bond to do - i.e. go round destroying one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Leave that kind of thing to Team America.

    Any way, what freefall scene are you talking about in GE? The bungee? Pretty sure that is done for real.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    barryt007 wrote: »
    and a good storyline

    ...
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    I dislike the Brosnan films for other reasons - not the CGI.

    I always hated the tank chase - daft and not tthe kind of thing I expect Bond to do - i.e. go round destroying one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Leave that kind of thing to Team America.

    Any way, what freefall scene are you talking about in GE? The bungee? Pretty sure that is done for real.

    I thought the tank chase was entertaining. Its well directed and doesn't outstay its welcome unlike the cheesy action in the other Brosnan films.

    I remember watching the Russia chase in Die Hard 5 thinking: "this was done far better in GE".

    I was talking about the silly cliff dive rather than the bungee jump.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,425
    You mean Jinx in DAD? You said GE.

    The tank chase is fine from a technical perspective. I just think it's naff and not what I expect Bond to do. It's the point where Bond just becomes another cheesy action franchise. Bond is not supposed to be a philistine. I just disliked what that scene implies about his values and attitude. What if he'd driven a tank around the streets of London or Paris smashing up historic buildings - would that have been cool as well?

    The fact that he spends half the film blazing away on machine guns added to my feeling that this was no longer what I regard as a Bond movie.

    And before you say anything, Roger never did stuff like this.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,951
    Getafix wrote: »
    I dislike the Brosnan films for other reasons - not the CGI.

    I always hated the tank chase - daft and not tthe kind of thing I expect Bond to do - i.e. go round destroying one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Leave that kind of thing to Team America.

    Any way, what freefall scene are you talking about in GE? The bungee? Pretty sure that is done for real.

    I agree on the tank chase. And I never thought about the destruction of that beautiful city too - that's a very good point!
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    You mean Jinx in DAD? You said GE.

    The tank chase is fine from a technical perspective. I just think it's naff and not what I expect Bond to do. It's the point where Bond just becomes another cheesy action franchise. Bond is not supposed to be a philistine. I just disliked what that scene implies about his values and attitude. What if he'd driven a tank around the streets of London or Paris smashing up historic buildings - would that have been cool as well?

    The fact that he spends half the film blazing away on machine guns added to my feeling that this was no longer what I regard as a Bond movie.

    No the bit when he dives after the plane at the end of the PTS.

    Well Bond has been causing destruction of sorts in Paris before...in AVTAK. A rather poor tired action scene in comparison.

    As for London, maybe not in a tank but a car or even a chase in a bendy bus would be good.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,425
    It's not the chase I have an issue with - it's the cultural vandalism. Connery did not round smashing up Edo era Japanese temples. Roger did not demolish the Doge's palace in Venice (leave that kind of thing to DC). It's just uncouth and loutish behaviour. Sort of appropriate for the laddish 1990s, but basically really uncool.

    What I'm saying is if a Bond movie had Bond driving a tank through (as in through the structure) of Admiralty Arch or historic Paris, would that be cool?
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's not the chase I have an issue with - it's the cultural vandalism. Connery did not round smashing up Edo era Japanese temples. Roger did not demolish the Doge's palace in Venice (leave that kind of thing to DC). It's just uncouth and loutish behaviour. Sort of appropriate for the laddish 1990s, but basically really uncool.

    What I'm saying is if a Bond movie had Bond driving a tank through (as in through the structure) of Admiralty Arch or historic Paris, would that be cool?

    Hmm...probably not ;) Nonetheless if Connery or Moore did I suspect you wouldn't be nearly as harsh on them :p

    Even so. Love the tank chase for its spectacle.
  • Posts: 11,425
    It's fine in a different context, or even if it was the villain's henchman driving the tank. But totally naff for Bond to be doing that kind of thing.

    Now you see how deep my frustration with the Brosnan era goes! For me, they totally forgot who and what Bond is about.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's fine in a different context, or even if it was the villain's henchman driving the tank. But totally naff for Bond to be doing that kind of thing.

    Now you see how deep my frustration with the Brosnan era goes! For me, they totally forgot who and what Bond is about.

    Thinking about it.. The tank chase is really the first clear example of the new producers and new age Bond 'switching things up' in the franchise. It does seem as though it should be Ouromov driving the tank chasing Bond, but then they thought 'No, let's switch it up and have Bond do it.' It worked out far better with making Craig the sex symbol in CR than it did here though.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Oromov driving the tank would be good but it might have been too reminiscent of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

    For me I'd take that chase hands down over some of the lesser chases in the later Roger Moore films (Bond driving round San Francisco in a fire engine for example). I do understand what you're saying but I think they get away with it to an extent in GE. I find the chase enjoyable despite its ridiculousness.

    If you were talking about the bike chase in TND I'd agree with you. Regardless of the vehicle being more plausible I don't find that chase scene half as entertaining. It goes on too long and most of it is just explosions.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I take your points, but I find it a more entertaining, more impressive action sequence.

    I also prefer the tank chase to the PTS of QoS, which I again find pretty average. The first shot is good but I don't exactly feel Bond's peril in the way I think we were supposed to. It's just rapidly edited machine-gun fire and cars smashing into eachother.

    Since when did the premise move to GE?

    Its QoS we're talking about now. And as for the TOSCA scene?

    Magnificent


  • Posts: 14,896
    I love the Tosca scene.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The TOSCA scene is nice, I just wish it had gone on a little longer.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Love it. Favourite scene from the film.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The best part about the opera scene is the music, Tosca instead of DA.

    That said this particular scene is easily the best the movie has to offer, before and after the movie is a shambles. And then to my great surprise nothing these scene delivered like all the faces of Quantum operatives gets ever mentioned in the movie. Kinda odd considering the important person from the Uk being involved.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,951
    I love the Tosca scene too - something very different for a James Bond film but it really works very well. I'm a big QoS fan of course. ;)
  • Posts: 12,511
    At first i was not keen on it? But i have now come to appreciate it alot more having watched the film more.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 7,506
    If it was up to me, there would be Puccini music in every Bond film! One of my favourite composers! And it sometimes bothers me a bit that David Arnold by many is credited for the music in the scene which he didn't write!

    For me, loudness in action scenes are not necessary at all, in fact it can actually work against the scene. The producers should always look for imaginative and substancial ways of building suspence, not only go for the easy solution; loudness and magnitude.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I loved the opera shootout. If it weren't for that scene and the PTS, I'd hate QoS.
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