Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,558
    Yes, I’m still sort of amazed how well they do Bond in CR: he’s still the swaggery Bond despite making mistakes and being in over his head (and those should kind of contradict each other) and he’s even a touch arrogant at times as you say, and yet still very likeable. It’s such a delicate balance and yet they manage it very well.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,355
    To be fair, there are elements of "This doesn't feel like Bond" in each actor's tenure.

    Connery being rough in DN is a good example.

    Lazenby going ring shopping/the romantic montage in general.

    Brosnan in TND saying "Filthy habit."

    Moore in LALD smoking a cigar.

    Etc.
  • Posts: 2,017
    I quite like Connery in DN. He is cold, distant, rough, assured, sensual, and compelling. He is not a dick. That's an inarticulate term that does not describe his character.

    I don't judge that first performance through the lens of 24 later performances because that performance in 1961 got us to Bond 2021. I see an actor creating a role for the first time. He didn't have the advantage of a predecessor.

    And I do like the cold blooded killing of Dent. But then I like to see that aspect of Bond, up close and personal, which is a reason I like the car kicking scene in FYEO. I
  • Posts: 16,203
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I quite like Connery in DN. He is cold, distant, rough, assured, sensual, and compelling. He is not a dick. That's an inarticulate term that does not describe his character.

    I don't judge that first performance through the lens of 24 later performances because that performance in 1961 got us to Bond 2021. I see an actor creating a role for the first time. He didn't have the advantage of a predecessor.

    And I do like the cold blooded killing of Dent. But then I like to see that aspect of Bond, up close and personal, which is a reason I like the car kicking scene in FYEO. I

    Well said. I think Connery's great in DR NO, one of my favorite portrayals of the character. I love his ruthlessness, his cold confidence, and overall roughness. I think Connery's early performances were pretty faithful to Fleming's character, but with some dry humor added.
  • edited October 1 Posts: 2,285
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I quite like Connery in DN. He is cold, distant, rough, assured, sensual, and compelling. He is not a dick. That's an inarticulate term that does not describe his character.

    One quote; “Fetch my shoes.”

    Yeah, Connery’s Bond was a dick in that first film. That’s not a put down on him either; if anything it’s a testament to Connery’s skill as an actor that people found the portrayal compelling enough despite that.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,429
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,158
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    I should write an angry letter to The Times.

    To put the length between now and SP, I’d go with it’s the same as Connery’s entire Bond run with EON, from DN to DAF!

    Not that it actually means anything let’s be honest.

    I thought we’d resigned ourselves to the idea that Bond 26 will arrive when EON are ready to do so, and move on.
    To distance the new Bond and new Bond era far enough away from the hugely successful Daniel Craig Bond films.

  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 699
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    Well they didn't have to worry about Daniel Craig going through puberty.
  • Posts: 1,416

    echo wrote: »
    To be fair, there are elements of "This doesn't feel like Bond" in each actor's tenure.

    Connery being rough in DN is a good example.

    Lazenby going ring shopping/the romantic montage in general.

    Brosnan in TND saying "Filthy habit."

    Moore in LALD smoking a cigar.

    Etc.

    Bond rejecting Xenia in GE.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 1 Posts: 16,558
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I quite like Connery in DN. He is cold, distant, rough, assured, sensual, and compelling. He is not a dick. That's an inarticulate term that does not describe his character.

    There’s nothing inarticulate about describing a character as acting like a dick, it’s a description which is perfectly vivid and communicates how a character acts. Folks might well disagree with the description, but thinking it’s not an applicable descriptive term shows a lack of comprehension.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I don't judge that first performance through the lens of 24 later performances because that performance in 1961 got us to Bond 2021. I see an actor creating a role for the first time. He didn't have the advantage of a predecessor.

    Yes, we agree; I said that too, perhaps you missed it otherwise I’m sure you’d disagree. What I do prefer is that more refined portrayal of the character from FRWL onwards, I’m sure Connery and the producers did too as that’s what they developed and stuck with.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I quite like Connery in DN. He is cold, distant, rough, assured, sensual, and compelling. He is not a dick. That's an inarticulate term that does not describe his character.

    One quote; “Fetch my shoes.”

    Yeah, Connery’s Bond was a dick in that first film. That’s not a put down on him either; if anything it’s a testament to Connery’s skill as an actor that people found the portrayal compelling enough despite that.

    Yeah absolutely: even beyond Bond’s demeanour of being aloof and humourless for the most part, as well as ‘fetch’ he also murders a guard for no reason whatsoever when they’re hiding under the water (the guy hadn’t discovered them and wasn’t about to), and he gets Quarrel killed with a stupid plan, then shows no guilt, remorse or even sorrow for it.
    But as you say, he’s magnetic and it’s clearly a star making performance. They then roughed off those edges in the following films and turned him into an icon.
  • edited October 1 Posts: 1,416
    Dr No's Bond was like Dirty Harry. Just like Clint's character, they softened it for the masses.

    Anyway, Dalton likes this movie so...
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 1 Posts: 3,799
    echo wrote: »
    To be fair, there are elements of "This doesn't feel like Bond" in each actor's tenure.

    Connery being rough in DN is a good example.

    Lazenby going ring shopping/the romantic montage in general.

    Brosnan in TND saying "Filthy habit."

    Moore in LALD smoking a cigar.

    Etc.

    The Tarzan Yell and Moore in Clown Costume in OP

    Brosnan lusting over Elektra's corpse after killing her in TWINE

    Dalton playing bump cars and roller coaster with Kara in circus in TLD

    Moore patting Blofeld's head in FYEO

    Craig acting out in Blofeld's headquarters as Madeleine watches the footage of her father's death in SPECTRE

    The whole Bond (Craig) and Blofeld exchange in prison cell in NTTD (almost Benoit Blanc)

    Can't think of an example for Connery, maybe except the scene of Bond making out with himself in DAF, that's a bit weird, even if someone puts that scene in a Bond novel/book, it would still be too silly for Bond.
  • Posts: 2,017
    @mtm-If we share the same opinion about something, fine. I won't change an opinion so as not to agree with you.

    Dick is a slang word for a man who is mean, stupid, unpleasant, and annoying. Bond is not that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 1 Posts: 16,558
    We know what dick means, Bond is a bit of one in Dr No. He is mean, aloof, short, terse, rather full of himself, an idiot at times (see: getting Quarrel killed), and not very likeable - these are the qualities of a dick. Hence why I used the phrase to describe him as one in this film and why others agreed.
    You're obviously welcome to see it another way as it's all a matter of opinion and none of us have a more valid one than anyone else, but don't call me inarticulate just because you picked out one single description I used (amongst many others) which you didn't care for for some reason.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @mtm-If we share the same opinion about something, fine. I won't change an opinion so as not to agree with you.

    Sure.
  • edited October 1 Posts: 4,266
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @mtm-If we share the same opinion about something, fine. I won't change an opinion so as not to agree with you.

    Dick is a slang word for a man who is mean, stupid, unpleasant, and annoying. Bond is not that.

    Well, Bond can be a bit of a b*stard in general, usually when it comes to difficult decisions in his profession. There are times when he’s not necessarily gentlemanly and has a streak of cruelty and arrogance. He can purposely wind villains (or indeed certain people) up for his own benefit too.

    I can see where some people are coming from with DN. I think there are times like in the video shown where Connery’s performance is a bit too aloof/stiff. I think we could have done with a moment where Bond shows a bit more remorse over Quarrel’s death in the actual scene (the ‘fetch my shoes’ line isn’t great either). Again, Bond is just a bit too often one step ahead for me. These are minor misfires in my opinion though. The film definitely gives Bond a streak of humour and confidence, and Connery plays it well. We get moments like the dinner scene where there’s at least a sense Bond is more concerned about avenging Quarrel/Strangways, and derides No’s ambitions as being that of a madman, which shows Bond has some humanity. Again, it’s just an early adaptation of the character.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 1 Posts: 16,558
    Yeah he's definitely human in there too, especially once Honey appears. I think it's mainly his initial investigations in Jamaica, especially around the embassy, where I found myself not liking him very much; not even in an anti-hero, vicarious guilty pleasure kind of way.
  • I keep seeing this notion that the Connery Bond of Dr. No is one of the more faithful adaptations of the character, and I’m sure that’s true to an extent. But out of the few Fleming’s I’ve read (and am still reading), I don’t think Fleming’s Bond is as downright mean and nasty as Connery was in DN. Wasn’t there even some pushback from the Fleming Purists regarding Professor Dent’s execution?
  • Posts: 4,266
    I keep seeing this notion that the Connery Bond of Dr. No is one of the more faithful adaptations of the character, and I’m sure that’s true to an extent. But out of the few Fleming’s I’ve read (and am still reading), I don’t think Fleming’s Bond is as downright mean and nasty as Connery was in DN. Wasn’t there even some pushback from the Fleming Purists regarding Professor Dent’s execution?

    Yeah, and of course Fleming’s Bond disliked killing in cold blood. I think the literary Bond would have still killed Dent, but internally legitimise it as a way of avenging Strangways (at the very least he’d feel somewhat conflicted about it). Obviously that’s not somewhere the films wanted to go at the time.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 948
    I think ‘intense and businesslike’ was what they were aiming for in Dr. No. I can see the similarities in the way he behaves in the first film with how Bond is described to Vesper in the literary Casino Royale - basically all business and kind of brusque (I can’t remember the exact words but someone certainly warns her off him, iirc).
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    edited October 1 Posts: 100
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    True, yet even the worst Bond movie in Craig era is better than the best HP movie.
  • Posts: 2,017
    mtm wrote: »
    We know what dick means, Bond is a bit of one in Dr No. He is mean, aloof, short, terse, rather full of himself, an idiot at times (see: getting Quarrel killed), and not very likeable - these are the qualities of a dick. Hence why I used the phrase to describe him as one in this film and why others agreed.
    You're obviously welcome to see it another way as it's all a matter of opinion and none of us have a more valid one than anyone else, but don't call me inarticulate just because you picked out one single description I used (amongst many others) which you didn't care for for some reason.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @mtm-If we share the same opinion about something, fine. I won't change an opinion so as not to agree with you.

    Sure.

    I said the word is inarticulate. Didn't mention you.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    True, yet even the worst Bond movie in Craig era is better than the best HP movie.

    Agreed.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,679
    peter wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    True, yet even the worst Bond movie in Craig era is better than the best HP movie.

    Agreed.

    Agreed on that!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    True, yet even the worst Bond movie in Craig era is better than the best HP movie.

    Agreed.

    Agreed on that!

    Quality over quantity....
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,558
    Although there are quite a few more Bond films than Potter flicks! :D
  • I can say with supreme confidence that I haven’t brought myself to finish a single Harry Potter film. Now Casino Royale? Skyfall? Those are films I have absolutely zero trouble in revisiting time and time again.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited October 1 Posts: 556
    I can say with supreme confidence that I haven’t brought myself to finish a single Harry Potter film. Now Casino Royale? Skyfall? Those are films I have absolutely zero trouble in revisiting time and time again.

    Try Prisoner of Azkaban, it truly stands out with great director Alfonso Cuaron. A great quirky, adventure film. But I agree, all of David Yates Potter films are dry as dust.
  • I can say with supreme confidence that I haven’t brought myself to finish a single Harry Potter film. Now Casino Royale? Skyfall? Those are films I have absolutely zero trouble in revisiting time and time again.

    Try Prisoner of Azkaban, it truly stands out with great director Alfonso Cuaron. A great quirky, adventure film. But I agree, all of David Yates Potter films are dry as dust.

    I’ll check it out!
  • Posts: 4,266
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Surprised no one put up 'No Time to Die' released 3 yrs ago today!! My, doesn't Time fly!!

    And its been almost 9 years since SP, or put into context in the same amount of time from Philosophers Stone to Deathly Hallows Part 1 we recieved only 1 Bond film.

    True, yet even the worst Bond movie in Craig era is better than the best HP movie.

    Agreed.

    Agreed on that!

    Yeah, I’d agree too. I like the first three HP films incidentally (any of them beyond that I really don’t like. I also have horrible memories of being made to read some of those books. Absolutely terrible in my opinion).
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,158
    Let’s keep it on topic, we have a Harry Potter thread.

    Thanks
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